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Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-02]


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Yoda117



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:37 am Reply with quote
Rose Kitsune wrote:


The problem is you do not own the rights to redistribute the material, which is what you are doing when you put it on YouTube. It doesn't matter if you editted it and put a song behind it, you are still redistributing copyrighted material. There is no getting around it: AMVs are technically illegal the moment they leave your computer and find themselves on the internet.


The NET Act of 1997 and the Berne Convention, are rather clear on the matter. It's illegal, just as a fansub is. There's not much technicality about it.

Once you really delve into it, and see the sections regarding "derivative works" (such as fansubs, fandubs, AMVs, etc.) the picture becomes much clearer.

While I think the "rant of the week" was a bit drawn out, the majority of his arguments are valid. I just wish he'd have researched his opinion a bit more to provide a better justification.
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Rose Kitsune



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 41
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:44 am Reply with quote
Space Goats wrote:
Rose Kitsune wrote:
I make AMVs for fun, and I put them on YouTube, also for fun. They're all from shows that I own, or would own if they were licensed.

My opinion is that making an AMV is like writing a fanfiction; you do it for fun because you love a series. As Zac said, no one is getting hurt by it.

I actually think that AMVs are more helpful than harmful. There are plenty of music videos that have gotten me to like different bands and anime. A Fullmetal Alchemist video to "Protege Moi" made me a Placebo fan, and a Princess Tutu vid got me interested in the anime, which I had had no intention of checking out prior to seeing it. I'm not sure if that's how it works for other people, but that's just my experience with it.


The problem is you do not own the rights to redistribute the material, which is what you are doing when you put it on YouTube. It doesn't matter if you editted it and put a song behind it, you are still redistributing copyrighted material. There is no getting around it: AMVs are technically illegal the moment they leave your computer and find themselves on the internet.

That aside, what is technically illegal and morally illegal are two different things in my book. I see nothing wrong with making AMVs from an anime distributer's standpoint. Of course from the standpoint of the musician whose music is not only being ripped off but often times plastered onto a poorly made clip show of something they probably don't want to be associated with... well... you get the picture. When you look at it that way there's no way to defend it. You can't just see things from the perspective of the anime distributer when so many copyrighted songs are being freely distributed in the process.

[/i]
I get your point, and I agree. But it doesn't change my opinion that a good AMV can be advertisement for a series, and a song.
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kolibri



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 712
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:45 am Reply with quote
Sometimes it's not fair to pick a frame between key animation, especially if it's been rendered with a computer where the computer kinda morphs from one frame to another... or even by hand - it's gonna look weird, especially if it's an action scene with lot of movement and not too many frames. I think the Ichigo one is a perfect example of that.

Having said that, laugh at this one ugly Gaara from the latest episode Shippuuden.


Last edited by kolibri on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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marie-antoinette
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Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 4081
Location: Ottawa, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:45 am Reply with quote
bayoab wrote:
Unfortunately I can't remember any of the names who did this but there was an author who demanded that none of her characters be cosplayed. (This was an issue when she went to a convention.)


I believe you're thinking of Riyoko Ikeda, creator of Rose of Versailles. There was some controversy over the World Cosplay Summit this year because the winners were cosplaying Rose of Versailles, which the previous year had been used as a reason to disqualify another group, because she has been very adament about not wanting her characters cosplayed.

However I think there are more mangaka who are flattered by cosplay than otherwise: I know I've read favourable opinions about it from Yuu Watase and I think from CLAMP as well. But to say that they all enjoy it would be misleading.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 960
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:47 am Reply with quote
Yoda117 wrote:
While I think the "rant of the week" was a bit drawn out, the majority of his arguments are valid. I just wish he'd have researched his opinion a bit more to provide a better justification.

What specifically did you want more justification for? Again, the rant is NOT about anime copyrights (which has been done to death) but instead about people who have no problem breaking copyrights themselves taking issue with OTHER people "stealing" their work. The hypocisy of that really annoys me and I'm not sure what further research would benefit the argument, but again, I'm open to discussion on the matter.


Last edited by HeeroTX on Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fiction Alchemist



Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 438

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:48 am Reply with quote
I wouldn't say that Japanophiles are all the same. I dislike most American cartoons (I'm a fan of Avatar, though), but I like many American movies (most of my favorite movies are from the US), and almost all of my music is American. Meanwhile, I'm obsessed with Japan and am constantly looking to learn more things about it. I wind up trying to watch all of the anime I can, even if I know beforehand that it will bore or annoy me in some fashion (though I'll bail on long series like Pokemon). Would I not qualify as a Japanophile for that?

For me, it's not that anime is better because it's Japanese, however. It's the storytelling style that I love, and that's how I can love, say, Lord of the Rings and Naruto.

It's just too bad more American shows couldn't be more like Avatar.

On AMVs, I don't watch them. They're almost always set to Linkin Park songs that don't sync with the videos.

I would love if someone set Fullmetal Alchemist to "Time Consumer" by Coheed and Cambria, or "Brother Bleed Brother" by Finch. Now if done right, those would be really cool. Look up the lyrics to those songs and see what I mean.
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Karasuhebi



Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 139
Location: Orlando, Florida (US)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:50 am Reply with quote
But isn't Avatar a pseudo-anime show? (AKA an American show styled to look like anime)

-Karasuhebi
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Fiction Alchemist



Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 438

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:56 am Reply with quote
Yeah, it is. Shows like that are often either loved for being like anime or hated for "trying" to be like anime.

I constantly reject shows that attempt to be like anime in art style, because they just don't have the substance I'm looking for. Avatar's character and plot made me stay for it. The anime-style drawings are not the focus for me, but rather a great extra.

Karasuhebi wrote:
But isn't Avatar a pseudo-anime show? (AKA an American show styled to look like anime)

-Karasuhebi
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
even literature as I found out when I spoke to some people who were meeting for a book club at a Barnes and Noble and were apparently humored for the fact I was buying a book from the fantasy/sci-fi genre as it's not "real fiction" to them.
Someone needs to get them to read the dictionary entry for fiction. I think they may be confused about what it means. Rolling Eyes

Seriously, that is such a laughable thing to say. Fantasy/sci-fi genres aren't "real fiction"? First, it's a rather humerous oxymoron and quite the logical paradox since fiction is inherently not real. Second, to claim that two of the longest existing forms of fiction, not to mention two of the most influential, aren't "real" is just absurd. Science fiction writing has inspired generations of scientists to new heights of discovery while fantasy tales have both delighted us and inspired heights of artistic expression that cannot be taken lightly.

It really bothers me that people can't accept the obvious value of these genres, especially considering the impact they've had. No one ever invented a new technology or created a masterwork of art after reading Great Expectations.

"Real fiction." Rolling Eyes Sorry for the OT rant there.
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jgreen



Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 1324
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
Seriously, that is such a laughable thing to say. Fantasy/sci-fi genres aren't "real fiction"?


Especially considering the "-fi" in "sci-fi" is short for "fiction." If they aren't "real fiction," would that make them "non-fiction"? Confused
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DemonEyesLeo



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 844
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:56 pm Reply with quote
Karasuhebi wrote:
What browser are you using?

-Karasuhebi


Firefox 2.0.0.2, but it's not working on IE 7 either. Maybe I just need to tinker with some stuff., but the first of these banners (the one with the Tachicoma) loaded just fine.
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TestamentSaki



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:25 pm Reply with quote
Ah... I missed Answerman last week... I wanted to see what would happen.

And those screenshots are freakin' hilarious.
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Veoryn87



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 808

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:58 pm Reply with quote
Although Japanese anime has their animation mistakes I can't help but notice that American Animation isn't exactly perfect either (unless it comes from Disney). Most American cartoons these days move at smooth framerates, but are increadibly simplistic looking (Fairly Odd Parents and Family Guy). Avatar looks great. It has appealing character designs and detailed art, but even it has a noticebly lower framerate than the cartoons I mentioned before. The X-Men cartoon from the 90's was detailed, but it was so choppy that I could hardly stand watching it.
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irishninja



Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 344
Location: Seattle-ish

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:39 pm Reply with quote
I'm not entirely sure that cosplaying is illegal. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know for sure, but I do work in a creative industry that frequently has its own little debates about copyright infringement. So I'm exposed to this debate all the time. Shocked

As I understand it (and again, I'm not a lawyer), copyright laws protect against unlawful distribution. If you make a cosplay costume for yourself you aren't distributing it. You can also create every AMV or fanfic or doujinshi or other derivative work you can think of for yourself as long as you don't give it to anyone else. Granted, there's no fun in that, but I'm pretty sure that's how the law works.

Cosplaying might even fall under the tenets of "fair use," but I don't think so.
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:56 pm Reply with quote
Space Goats wrote:
Also I'd like to throw another hat into the discussion about the whacky still frames you guys are pulling out. While there is NO excuse for a headless Naruto, sometimes you have to remember that still frames are not meant to be viewed as... still frames.


kolibri wrote:
Sometimes it's not fair to pick a frame between key animation, especially if it's been rendered with a computer where the computer kinda morphs from one frame to another... or even by hand - it's gonna look weird, especially if it's an action scene with lot of movement and not too many frames.

Unless it's a series animated by Toei with things like this wonderful "keyframe" on for almost a full second on zoom out. (Toei animated this scene in reverse, but you can see this type of drawing for almost a full second.) There are plenty more examples of things that look like a 10 yr old drew them from the last 15 episodes or so of Gash Bell. Toei completely stopped caring and the animation took a nosedive. Almost all Toei series are filled with similar problems and the "quality" of it is very obvious even in motion.

And then there is Gonzo...
Gonzo has episodes on almost every series that clearly were rushed out and look downright awful for the entire episode. (NHK 19 or so comes to mind.)
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