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Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-02]


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Veoryn87



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 808

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Gonzo has some great looking stuff (Last Exile and Gankutsuou), but I think Production I.G., BONES, and Kyoto Animation are much better.
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Yoda117



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:09 pm Reply with quote
irishninja wrote:

As I understand it (and again, I'm not a lawyer), copyright laws protect against unlawful distribution. If you make a cosplay costume for yourself you aren't distributing it. You can also create every AMV or fanfic or doujinshi or other derivative work you can think of for yourself as long as you don't give it to anyone else. Granted, there's no fun in that, but I'm pretty sure that's how the law works.

Cosplaying might even fall under the tenets of "fair use," but I don't think so.


Not really. A clearer definition of the law is given in some of the suits brought by HIT Entertainment against a Baltimore school teacher who made a costume which the corporation thought to be infringing on the copyrighted likeness of the character of "Barney" (yeah, the kid-loved purple dinosaur has a crack legal team). HIT Entertainment won the suit because the image itself had been licensed. Had the likeness of "Barney" been fair use (such as the "Have a Nice Day" symbol, which was at one time considered to be fair use... there's an appeal from the originator currently in courts last I checked), no problema... if not, then you could run into a problem.
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Doctor Worm



Joined: 10 Apr 2004
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Ichigo77 wrote:
normal americans really can't handle long story arc's


A couple or so years ago I would have made the same claim. Actually, it may not be that Americans can't handle long story arc's so much as writers/producers/directors thinking they couldn't, but now look at things like LOST and Heroes, the writers decided to take the "risk" of doing something where you pretty much have to have seen every episode from the beginning to get what's going on as opposed to just needing to see one or two, like say, an episode of "Law & Order" or one of it's spin-offs .. and you know what? That risk has paid off REALLY well 'cos it seems that everyone and their dog is watching LOST and Heroes.

It could also be that 'cos we live in the age of DVD box sets and legal/illegal downloads that it's easier for folks to catch up with shows than it would have been in like say the 80's or whenever.

Than again, come to think of it.. you gotta remember that one time Twin Peaks was pretty damned popular too and that wasn't exactly a show you could just jump right into the middle or whatever either.

So honestly, sorry for repeating myself, but I don't think it's a matter of Americans not being able to handle long story arcs or whatever so much as writers and such Ed. note: 4chan memes belong on 4chan, don't bother with it here.
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Michi
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:24 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Or, "they stole my skit idea".


That has nothing to do with copyright infringement, though. If you're going to go that far, then start bagging on fanfiction too (unless you did and I missed it). Cosplay skits can be, not always, original ideas using existing characters. Stealing somebody's idea for one is pretty lame, so I don't think it's right to say they have no basis for argument just because they didn't create the characters involved in said idea. =/ Same with fanfiction.

You also mentioned the thing regarding cosplay photos being stolen. At that point, the fact that the outfit they're wearing may not be a character of creation is not the issue when somebody is using their photos without permission or claiming to be them. Come on, now. That's just dragging the issue out too far.

For goodness sakes, even the avatar I'm using is basically illegal because it's not my image. Same with all the images in the encyclopedia. Fandom would be a VERY sad place if things like fansites, fanfiction, fanart, cosplay, and etc were seriously outlawed.


bayoab wrote:
Unfortunately I can't remember any of the names who did this but there was an author who demanded that none of her characters be cosplayed. (This was an issue when she went to a convention.).


I think you may be referring to the big World Cosplay Summit fiasco regarding Riyoko Ikeda? It was claimed that a group was disqualified for doing Rose of Versailles cosplay because the mangaka Ikeda didn't want people cosplaying her series. The whole thing was a big controversy to begin with, so I don't think anyone knows if that was true or just an excuse made up by the organizers. Let's NOT get into that, though, it's been discussed to death on the internet.
(after I wrote this I saw marie-antoinette's reply, and her mention of another group that won cosplaying RoV just adds to the controversy.. I have a feeling Ikeda has no problem with cosplayers at all!)


HeeroTX wrote:
When Anime Expo was at Disney there WAS a stipulation against cosplaying Disney characters. For Disney, there is a clear REASOn for that in that their employees are required to behave a certain way and they didn't want non-Expo visitors thinking Expo cosplayers were Disney paid characters and having a bad experience because of attitude. And LEGALLY they can TOTALLY do that. Again, most of the time they WON'T do that, but that isn't to say they CAN'T.


I think their concern was more that Disney attendees would confuse the cosplayers for paid Disney employees, and they didn't want any cosplayers tarnishing the Disney image. I don't think their issue was, at least mainly, with them dressing up as copyrighted characters. If so, there wouldn't be official Disney patterns for costumes. (And I don't think anyone at Disney is tracking people down to make sure they used an official pattern for an outfit...)
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davidlaw1985



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:39 pm Reply with quote
I will admit I have never once thought about the copyright issues of AMV's which I am a huge fan of.
It was AMV hell 3 that got me into anime and also suppplied the series' I wanted to start watching, I would have taken much longer to get into anime at all, also from one AMV I watched recently I went and bought three cd's all by the artist used, and the series.
I do believe that the companies are happy to turn a blind eye to this aspect of fandom
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 961
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:59 pm Reply with quote
Look, it's simple it comes down to how you answer two questions:
1) If companies are cracking down on fansubs or scanlations or whatever, are they jerks for "taking away" something you enjoy?
2) If someone else takes your material and uses it in their own way without asking you, do you think you're "owed" something?

If you answer "no" to both, you're one of those radical communist/anarchist types that love swimming against the grain, and altho you can be frustrating, the rant wasn't directed at you.
If you answer "yes" to #1 and "no" to #2, you're some other kinda communist that thinks all info should be "free" or something, again, not directed at you, glad to hear you're an "open-source" supporter.
If you answer "no" to #1 and "yes" to #2, you're a capitalist and most of today's fans probably think you're a corporate mouthpiece, again, no beef with you except on a purely theoretical level.

Finally, we have the people who say "yes" to both statements, YOU are a hypocrite, and FURTHER, you're really annoying, you DON'T own the material and further you have some inexplicable issue with the people who DO own the material doing the EXACT SAME THING to you. What I'm saying is YOU people need to STFU!

I don't WANT to cite examples of SPECIFICALLY the kind of thing I'm referring to for cosplayers because (a) it's not all ABOUT cosplay, that's just ANOTHER aspect of fandom where it DOES happen, and (b) the cosplay community is RELATIVELY small and specific examples wouldn't be hard to gauge WHO I'm referring to, and I have NO desire to pick a fight with or otherwise highlight specific PEOPLE. (since it's certainly not LIMITED to those people)
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Kagami8



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:10 pm Reply with quote
I kind of get the rant, and I agree with the author for the most part, but I think that people are really getting upset more about others claiming they themselves created something someone else made, and not really about sending pictures and fanfics and things around. The idea of making fan "things" is all for fun, and they in no way are selling anything or making a profit out of it. It's just the idea of stealing the recognition.

I do, however, agree when there is money involved, or if the actual material is being passed around for free. THAT, to the extent of my knowledge, IS copyright infringement. And if that isn't, then it should be. (Hey, I'm 14, what should I know about this law?)
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Kagami8



Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Oklahoma

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:19 pm Reply with quote
davidlaw1985 wrote:
I will admit I have never once thought about the copyright issues of AMV's which I am a huge fan of.
It was AMV hell 3 that got me into anime and also suppplied the series' I wanted to start watching, I would have taken much longer to get into anime at all, also from one AMV I watched recently I went and bought three cd's all by the artist used, and the series.
I do believe that the companies are happy to turn a blind eye to this aspect of fandom

That's a plus of AMVs. They tend to advertise better than anything else.

The good ones, anyway. I like to review AMVs, and it's hard to get a halfway decent one. It's terribly frustrating. Nowadays, I decide within the first five minutes if I want to watch an AMV so that I don't waste time on them...
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Volyund



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:57 pm Reply with quote
If I was a band, I'd be happy somebody made an AMV on my song. That's such a good advertisement. I've gotten many songs through hearing them on AMV and then wanting to have them in my collection.
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Omega13



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:29 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

2) If someone else takes your material and uses it in their own way without asking you, do you think you're "owed" something?


First off, I'm assuming you're referring to what would be called 'derivative works' when you say 'your material'. I would hope that you don't have a problem with anyone thinking they are owed something if it is their own original work being used without consent.

The one thing I'd like to say about this is that when someone gripes about another person utilizing their derivative works, I think they are more perturbed that the effort they put into creating their work for the enjoyment of others was tossed aside, rather than them thinking that they have any legal claim to the entirety of their work. While I have not experienced it firsthand, creating a top-notch AMV, for instance, can and does take many, many hours worth of effort. Even if you have no claims at all to the audio, video, or conglomeration thereof used in the AMV, you still put forth that effort to make something for the enjoyment of others. When that effort is usurped by another, a person would, in my opinion, have every right to be upset.
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Ichigo77



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 389
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:29 pm Reply with quote
Bob Loblaw wrote:

Y'see? This is usually the part where you're suppose to kick people like that right out of the damn room. They're "bagging" on the anime because they're spoiled brats, and their parents gave them anything they wanted because they whined their way to it. Sadly, these folks are under the mistaken impression this "method" still works, when they're in their early twenties or mid-thirties. Rolling Eyes


I wanted too so bad but I didn't want to get in trouble, plus this kid is crazy, he was even making fun of japanese girls eyes because he hates anime so much. Now if there was a japanese girl in the class when he said that he would have been on the ground faster then he could have said "anime sucks"

Doctor Worm wrote:

A couple or so years ago I would have made the same claim. Actually, it may not be that Americans can't handle long story arc's so much as writers/producers/directors thinking they couldn't, but now look at things like LOST and Heroes, the writers decided to take the "risk" of doing something where you pretty much have to have seen every episode from the beginning to get what's going on as opposed to just needing to see one or two, like say, an episode of "Law & Order" or one of it's spin-offs .. and you know what? That risk has paid off REALLY well 'cos it seems that everyone and their dog is watching LOST and Heroes.


Well I don't watch Hero's so I can't say anything about that but I do watch LOST. The writers for LOST do a great job and it is cool that it worked but the ratings are starting to fall for 1. putting it on at 10 pm was a stupid idea, and 2. is because they are taking forever to explain so many thing and fans on forums have already said that is making them mad. It would be doing a lot better if every episode explained as much as "Live Together, Die Alone" did, because fans liked it for all of things explained and thats why shows like 24 and Prison Break do well is because in every episode we always learnsome key information. So I do think Americans are getting more used to long story arcs which is a good thing because it could make more people except anime more, but the chances of seeing something as long a the Baroque Works Saga seems rare to me.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 961
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Omega13 wrote:
First off, I'm assuming you're referring to what would be called 'derivative works' when you say 'your material'. I would hope that you don't have a problem with anyone thinking they are owed something if it is their own original work being used without consent.

Does it bother you when companies try to keep you (or other people) from pirating (ie. illegally (not iTunes and the likes) downloading) their work?
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davidlaw1985



Joined: 17 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Omega13 said; When that effort is usurped by another, a person would, in my opinion, have every right to be upset.


I completly agree, it is irrelevant where the material came from, it is the work that has gone into the piece that is important, If i had spent a large amount of time creating a good amv I would be very upset if it suddenly started appearing on sites wothout my permission, especially uncreadeted.

on a slightly different note- how do you get the proper "whoever said" by the quotes, whatever i try doesn't seem to work, and bbcode isn't disabled
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Space Goats



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Doctor Worm wrote:
Ichigo77 wrote:
normal americans really can't handle long story arc's


A couple or so years ago I would have made the same claim. Actually, it may not be that Americans can't handle long story arc's so much as writers/producers/directors thinking they couldn't, but now look at things like LOST and Heroes, the writers decided to take the "risk" of doing something where you pretty much have to have seen every episode from the beginning to get what's going on as opposed to just needing to see one or two, like say, an episode of "Law & Order" or one of it's spin-offs .. and you know what? That risk has paid off REALLY well '[/b]


Or even better, try getting into 24 if you've missed a few episodes. 24 has characters which are tied together from season-to-season as well, so if you started watching in say, season 5, you might not understand certain things because a character from season 3 showed up in a different role. Then you're left wondering, "Wha?" Nevertheless, the show is a hit and it doesn't retain a single shred of typical American episodic formating.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5551
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:09 pm Reply with quote
In the quote tag you'd add ="their name" after the worde 'quote' so it'd look like [quote="bob"]
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