Forum

Why do we even have to have a debate over sub vs dub anyway? Unless you're talking about a 4Kids dub or some show that was either released just for the kids or just for the niche anime fanbase, you have the option of watching it subbed or dubbed. So who cares which is "better?" (Not that it's actually possible to really decide that since "better" is a subjective concept.)

I prefer dubs and see no reason to try and convince others to embrace them over all subs. I'd like for everyone to give them a chance since I think there are some truly talented English VAs out there but hey, it's your business if you don't agree with me. No harm, no foul, no problem.

Seriously, what's the point of debating the issue? There is no right answer and we're never going to reach a consensus so why don't we all just drop it and listen to whichever version we like. How about we save the complaining for when a company doesn't bother to give us a choice?

Like Zac wrote:

Quote:

there's nothing wrong at all with preferring subtitles, but unless you're watching one of those rare shows where the English dub has been completely reworked and changes the story, it's mostly just about personal preference rather than one being "accurate" and one being "inaccurate".

It's hilarious just how much your avatar fits your question.

JnxCsc wrote:

These types of people (which I believe the ranter this week was talking about) don't want to be the exchange students friend and are not trying to find a medium on which to communticate with them. Those types of people who go to them for one thing and then don't get what they want are users. Bigoted, stereotyping users who probably only want to be able to say 'Hey I have a Japanesse friend isn't that cool' no it isn't it's disgusting. Still think I'm wrong? OK.

I think you're extrapolating and coming to the wrong conclusion. The ranter tells them to ask about OTHER things and make an effort to meet OTHER people (like Vietnamese). While I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, I don't think it's a rant about racism so much as it is a rant about people assuming Japanese have an interest in anime. And I don't think that's done to say "I have a Japanese friend", I think people just attribute anime to Japan and think people from Japan would know/be interested in it. They would be wrong on occasion, but I don't think it's done with some intent to devalue the person in question. Again, *I* think it's done in an effort to find common ground, and failing that they don't know what to talk about. Period. I don't think that is THAT wrong. I'm not saying it should be PRAISED but it's not some crime against humanity.

Quote:

I'm black and when I'm standing in a very long line at the music store and a girl steps up behind me and starts gushing about Akon and how he's the coolest thing on 2 legs and don't I think he's been getting a raw deal about his song 'I Want To F*** You and blah, blah, blah.

Is it POSSIBLE she asked you simply because SHE thought Akon is popular and is shocked you aren't into his stuff or even just confused you don't want to talk about it? I've been at anime cons and had people gush about Gackt or Dir en Gray or others and I have the exact same response and GET the exact same response or worse. Are those people RACIST even tho I am white and they are too and the musicians in question are Japanese?

Everyone has things they are interested in. SOME people want to talk to other people about those things, even if they don't know, sometimes even if they have no reason to do so. But more usually because they think you might share their interest or something. Does everything NEED to have some ulterior motive? JnxCsc, I understand your offense at the Akon implication of connection, but are we so lacking for things to do that we need to project our opinions on another people and their culture and get offended on their behalf?

HeeroTX wrote:

...I think people just attribute anime to Japan and think people from Japan would know/be interested in it. They would be wrong on occasion, but I don't think it's done with some intent to devalue the person in question. Again, *I* think it's done in an effort to find common ground, and failing that they don't know what to talk about. Period. I don't think that is THAT wrong.

This is a very interesting point. The fact remains, however, that there are sadly those who fail to recognize that in Japan a lot of the aspects of anime are just as "niche" and "geeky" as they are here. A girl I know was born in Canada but grew up in Japan, and we were friends on grounds that had nothing to do with her country. But the first couple of times "anime" were mentioned in passing, the look on her face was priceless. You'd think we'd just said we were planning to put on Starfleet uniforms and parade down the street or something.

In the case of exchange students, a more appropriate place to start might be, "What are you studying?" After all, that's likely the sort of thing you'd say to any American on campus to break the ice. The point again is not to deny your anime fandom, but perhaps to just rethink that as your first stab at common ground, since again, the first thing you approach any white kid you meet with is probably not "OMGZ DO U LIKE ANIME?" It might come up later, but that's generally not the start of the conversation.
I think it's just a case of approaching Japanese people like you would anyone else, rather than immediately jumping to the stereotype.

Last edited by JnxCsc on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

Quote:

I don't think it's a rant about racism so much as it is a rant about people assuming Japanese have an interest in anime.

Nowhere in my post did I mention anything about racisim. What I did mention was stereotypes and bigotry. Racisim is hating another person based on the color of their skin. Where did I mention this?

Quote:

Again, *I* think it's done in an effort to find common ground,

Again *I* don't. As for forcing my opinion on someone is that not what this forum is about expressing your opinions. Also are not those persons doing what you accused me of doing? As for being socially inept I'm not exactly the most graceful person but the first words out of my mouth when I first meet someone is "Hello" or "My name is" (no Eminem reference or pun intended).

Quote:

Is it POSSIBLE she asked you simply because SHE thought Akon is popular and is shocked you aren't into his stuff or even just confused you don't want to talk about it?

The girl in question was not white, though I can see how you would assume she was. She was, in fact, Hispanic and instead of speaking to the guy behind her (who was white) she choose to ask me instead. An Innocent mistake...maybe. But, and here's the what I'm trying to convey, is the way she made me feel when she did what she did.

One more than I'm done.

Quote:

Are those people RACIST even tho I am white and they are too and the musicians in question are Japanese?

No these people are exactly what I said in the beginning. People who are not interested in you as a whole.

On the rant I think I disagreed and agreed with it to some extent.

As a Japanese major at my university (in the U.S.), my classes seem to consist of two kinds of people, anime fans and people who hate anime and anyone who likes it. I think the latter's hatred is a little unfounded because there has never been anyone really over-the-top, disturbing the class with questions about anime, person in any of my classes. Both the non-anime fan and the anime fan are paying attention in class and doing the work....so it's kind of mystifying how the non-fans go out of their way to be so bitchy to the anime fans when they're not doing anything to disturb the class.

Anyway, I kind of think the whole "run up to a Japanese person and talk to them about anime" is more of a high school thing than a college thing.

I don't think you should hide being who you are around Japanese people though, the ranter shouldn't have been ashamed to hang up her wallscroll and her fanart. Maybe if she mixed it up with other things, like posters of favorite movies or bands and other stuff so the anime thing isn't the whole focus.

I don't really advertise being an anime fan aside from reading manga in public, but I'm not ashamed about it.

Now that I'm an exchange student in Japan I can see what some Japanese people might have to deal with though. A lot of the people here seem to just want to be my friend because I'm a foreigner, and they think that having a foreign friend will make them look cool.
But, even though there are people like that I've made several Japanese friends who have the same interests and are just as much of a fan as I am. Our converations didn't start out being about anime but came to the topic eventually.
Actually, most people I know regularly watch or read some series or other (maybe this is just for the student set..). Nana and Death Note are popular with everyone.

Ooohkay I've done enough rambling for one night.

digitalkikka wrote:

As for scanlations, I'll admit I've read my fair share. I only read titles that are not licensed or the current chapters of a few long-running shounen titles that are ahead of the US release. I try to support the US manga market as best I can but censorship often leads me down another path...

Like Tenjho Tenge

That flake smells of troll alright, but I can't help but visualise it as one of the kindergardeners from "Recess". It's probably from some point in the 4Chan pond.

That rant wasn't a rant at all, but reather a gospal message of common sense. One we would all do well to allow to enter into our lives. Well done that person. Wink

JnxCsc wrote:

Quote:

Is it POSSIBLE she asked you simply because SHE thought Akon is popular and is shocked you aren't into his stuff or even just confused you don't want to talk about it?

The girl in question was not white, though I can see how you would assume she was. She was, in fact, Hispanic and instead of speaking to the guy behind her (who was white) she choose to ask me instead. An Innocent mistake...maybe. But, and here's the what I'm trying to convey, is the way she made me feel when she did what she did.

One more than I'm done.

Quote:

Are those people RACIST even tho I am white and they are too and the musicians in question are Japanese?

No these people are exactly what I said in the beginning. People who are not interested in you as a whole.

Dude, get over it. Youre in a music store, youre standing in line together, Akon is very popular with people of many races, she trys to make conversation.

Then you turn around and say, I dont listen to his music, I think its disgusting or something like that. Then youre offended cause she seems surprised. if I was talking to someone (of w/e race) in a Music store about a popular musician I liked and they told me they think his music is disgusting i would be suprised too. Like I said, get over it.

Ya know i think people are going a little overboard on this whole thing. I agree, its a stereotype to assume all Japanese people like anime. I agree its insensitive to come up to them and immediately ask about Anime. However, its not like its some horrible discriminatory, racist act. The point is just, try and be a little more sensitive.

Go back and read my first post then comment.

ikillchicken wrote:
Ya know i think people are going a little overboard on this whole thing. I agree, its a stereotype to assume all Japanese people like anime. I agree its insensitive to come up to them and immediately ask about Anime. However, its not like its some horrible discriminatory, racist act. The point is just, try and be a little more sensitive. End Quote.

Um...yes it is. It doesn't matter if your White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, or whatever.
Stereotyping is discriminatory.

yeah, so...

anyways, is anyone else excited about Higurashi coming out in America? Answerman's Q&A made it sound so alluring, i watched a couple episodes on that damned youtube and now i'm hooked. I can't wait to buy it when it comes out. To tell you the truth, its refreshing to watch a anime that doesn't have bland characters and a predictable story.

JnxCsc:

Yeah, I did read your first post. Youre making something outta nothing. She brings up Akon, you assume its because of your race. You shoot her down, then youre mad when she stops talking. Like I said, unless you WANT to feel youve been discriminated against, maybe instead give them the benefit of the doubt.

Chesis wrote:

The "Spirited Away" dub was clearly meant for younger viewers, adding little hints and foreshadowing that I didn't really appreciate. Chihiro identifies the dragon in the dub long before she does in the sub.

From an interview with the translators, posted on www.nausicaa.net:

Quote:

This is another question that has been debated frequently among the fans. In the Japanese version, when Chihiro first sees Haku in dragon form fly off, she doesn't say anything. In fact it appears that she doesn't yet realize that the dragon is Haku's other form. Yet in the English dub she says "That's Haku" even though nothing has happened yet to tell her that Haku has a dragon form. It's as if she just intuitively and magically recognizes him. (And since this is a fantasy, that's entirely possible.) So the question is what exactly was the reasoning behind putting in that line? Was it just to help make the audience understand that Haku could change forms (something the Japanese audience intuitively might suspect, but the American audience wouldn't)?

A: (Answer from 1st interview) "Haku," means white in Japanese and is the name of a mahjong tile with a white dragon on it. Very few people in America play mahjong, so very few Americans would be able to make the link between the character Haku and a white dragon. Therefore, we added a line of dialogue to help the non-mahjong-playing Americans follow the plot.

I just want to add one thing to the whole dub debate. I have found that Japanese made anime (obviously the only true kind of anime) is best done in the native language because only the original Japanese voice actors can understand the true emotion of the piece. Have you ever watched American soap operas in India, it's a very similar phenomenon? The Indians that do the voicing don't put emphasis in the right places, are over dramatic in others, and just change the whole tone of the piece because they unconscientiously add their Indian inflection. Its the same with anime, American voice actors, despite noble attempts, will add their cultural dispositions into the scenario.

Samurai Champloo is a good example. the English dub makes the characters, especially Fuu, too American-esque. And besides, its just weird that the ENGLISH speaking troupe is journeying around JAPAN. to me, watching the anime with its original voices preserves the cultural semantics. I realize that the sub-titles will be awkward at times, but 90% of communication is done with body movement, expressions, and voice inflection - not the actual wording. So the way I see it, I may be risking my comprehension of 10% of the message but gaining the full understanding of 90% of what is trying to be conveyed. I decent trade off as far as I'm concerned.

Of course, its all relative. And I actually enjoy other works WITH English voice acting because it fits the piece better. Best example: Cowboy Bebop

YouTube: Love it. Smile

I've found plenty of good-quality AMVs and fansubs over there. No joke. I've watched a few shows there, seen my fair share of AMVs--all fine quality. (It also helps that I've got a very high-resolution monitor.) So don't go knocking it.

Forum - View topic
Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-09]

This Week in Anime - What Do You Do When Your Fav Anime Isn't Simulcast?

Ragna Crimson Manga Volume 11 Review

Taste Naruto's Ichiraku Ramen in Real Life in Silverlake Ramen Campaign

New Spice & Wolf Anime's English Dub Features Returning Cast From Previous Series

Gundam SEED FREEDOM's Rie Tanaka, Sōichiro Hoshi Share Memories at Los Angeles Premiere

Kurayukaba and Kuramerukagari Anime Movies Review

The Spring 2024 Anime Preview Guide

Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-03-09]

Forum

Forum - View topic
Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-09]