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Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-16]


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Ranma824



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 453

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:06 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
ice9 wrote:
I think someone should totally make a youtube video about anime as a religion, it would probably be hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​JR9i7T6wczg


That is hilarious, because its supposed to be funny Smile
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LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5629
Location: Support Breast Cancer Research

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:14 am Reply with quote
FlamingPinecone wrote:
I am very much not gay but if I were walking around wth my boyfriend and some chick suddenly "squee'd" me, I would

1) consider said chick highly dangerous
2) recall every reason why I stopped dating girls.


3) Punch her lights out.
4) Call the cops and when asked why she has a broken nose, say you thought she was a mugger.

Great banner! Sousuke all the way.

I hate to say this but the Ranter, via her own admission, doesn't know what she's talking about. Like the others have said, she obviously hasn't listened to any dubs recently.

I WANT THAT PUPPY! GIMME. GIMME NOW!!!
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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 980

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:15 am Reply with quote
I finally learned the name of that show, BotsMaster, lol! Been so long I forgot the name, but remembered the theme song! So glad to see the theme and remember the name! Very Happy

*sigh* Same old rant song.
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Vikio



Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 58
Location: within sight of Manhattan Skyline, NJ

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:21 am Reply with quote
About the yaoi-delusional girl - this is a similar problem to the one from last week about over-enthusiastic fans idolizing Japanese people as "bringers of the true anime knowledge". It's a very childish point of view, very ignorant and rude to other people unles you actually ARE a child. If your friend is above 15-16 years old she has no excuse to act this way and needs a reality check. If she is below that age there is still hope that she will tune in to the real world eventually. It would be an interesting reality-check to find a gay guy who is offended by this behaviour, and is willing to explain this to her without getting exasperated.
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DarkCntry



Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:22 am Reply with quote
The rant starts off with them stating it's not going to be a sub vs dub thing, but then immediately goes right into it...wow, what grace.... Rolling Eyes

I vaguely remember Bots Master, and by vaguely I mean that I think I remember the cook that the writer was talking about. The rest of the show I cannot say I recall, but alas, my watching habits of that time frame was still stuck on the general good shows. I definitely remember watching Captain N though, that and the other Nintendo-branded shows were pretty entertaining for the under-developed mind

Very Happy
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teh*darkness



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:37 am Reply with quote
Great column as usual. Thanks for it!

Okay. A rant I agree with... and everyone who labeled the writer as a sub elitist must be reading the rant through dub elitist filters... that rant was not sub elitist in anyway... it simply pointed out how far english dubs have to go before they hit a track record of being good/decent or better even 50% of the time... and I'll even take into account dubs that have some good voice actors, and some bad voice actors. To use a show in the spotlight right now, Naruto. I cannot watch the dub. There are several very good VA's doing the dub, and most of it is watchable. My main complaints with it are Kakashi's and Shikamaru's voices, and the horrible mangling of the pronunciation of Shikamaru's name. I realize this is only my opinion, so I do not expect anyone to agree with me.
But overall, I prefer subs. I watch anime because it comes from a different culture, is created by people with a different mindset than myself, and I enjoy listening to it in it's native language. When companies produce the english dub, they have this tendency to 'americanize' it, which is not a bad thing for most, but it reduces my enjoyment by removing things like honorifics. Some people find honorifics confusing and annoying. I find them helpful for understanding character's relationships.
I pride myself on being non-judgemental, but since I know casual anime fans who won't watch subtitles, I only recommend titles that I feel have good dubs. And in my opinion, there really aren't that many. There are decent ones, yes, ones that aren't horrible, as bad as One Piece or Shaman King. But when you talk about great ones, like GitS or Cowboy Bebop, there just aren't that many. Most people should be able to realize this. Two shows that I prefer the dub over sub, FMA and YuYu Hakusho. Shows with bad subs, Gantz. ADV really did a hack-kneed job on the subs for that show... but oh well.
So there are good shows on both sides, and yes, I have also heard some japanese dubs that were really bad. They are not exempt. But we need to stop using phrases like "-elitist", and realize it's someone's opinion. Just because it's different from your's, doesn't make them elitist. It makes them different...
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Kenotic



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:41 am Reply with quote
In the world of anime, I guess you can learn about gay guys from yaoi, feminism from Sailor Moon and Ranma, and Japanese warrior culture from Naruto. It's kind of like learning about Chicago from Married with Children or genetics from Heroes - except no one would be silly enough to do that, right?

As for the rant, yawn. It's about the subs/dubs debate, even if the ranter claims otherwise. We've been there - done that for a long time. I'm fairly certain that there is a preconditioned response from a number of sub elitists: The dubs aren't accurate and the acting sucks. While I'm convinced these days that most (but certainly not all) of this is just echoing what the kids before them said in an effort to sound cool, I've also wondered if this has also become an excuse to simply download fansubs and avoid paying for DVDs. Today's reason? Bad acting.

To be sure, there is bad acting in English dubs. To be more general, there is bad acting in dubbing everywhere. To be even more general, there is bad acting in film and stage most everywhere. It's a fact of life: not everyone is a good actor who is paid to perform, and I'll happily list Japanese dub performances I thought needed a lot of punching up (note: cute and squeaky female voices that are overacted seem to be very commonplace in Japan). However, I can't watch something like Kamichu or ROD in English and pretend that the English dub is poorly acted. Not someone's cup of tea? That I can handle, and have no problem admitting that fans like to watch these shows in their native language. I like to as well, but I like to do it for reasons that don't fall back on lame stereotypes and a false sense of pride in one's hobby.

Quote:
And yes anime can be a religion.....ever heard of evangelion?


Hee... Personally, I think Haruhiism is already making quite a few disciples.
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frentymon
Forums Superstar


Joined: 27 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:54 am Reply with quote
The ranter's only example of what he considered "quality voice actors" in America (used to discredit American anime VAs) are the voiceover people for the commercials. Commercial voicing is much different from having to voice act a character though, and dare I say less difficult. I'm sure the better American VAs out there could also do a phenomenal job with commercials as well, but voicing a character is completely different and a harder task.

I believe that as a while, American anime VAs are pretty good. People tend to be overly critical of dub voices (accusing them of monotones, forced tones, whatever) because it is spoken in their native language, and it actually requres concentration and effort to spot monotone/forced tone in a language you don't understand or understand little of.

"This rant, however, has nothing to do with the perennial subs vs. dubs debate," he says, but that's exactly what it is. Harping on American VAs is nothing new to the wholly tired out and pointless sub vs. dub debate.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:58 am Reply with quote
For what they're worth, Captain N, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and of course the Super Mario Bros. Super Show were staples of my entertainment back in the early 1990s. The TV series as well as the games, of course. Although after seeing some of SMBSS recently after 13+ years, the episodes don't hold up too well.

I have to say, as more shoujo-ai / yuri content gets released, I'm becoming a bigger fan of it. In fact, I think I'll go start glomping lesbian girls and see how far that gets me Rolling Eyes Seriously, what is that girl thinking? I can accept yaoi fangirls squeeing, glomping, etc. at conventions (not that it happens to me, luckily) or while watching something like Ouran HS Host Club with a group of anime fans, but keep that stuff out of the real world.

Magically modifying bust sizes? I wouldn't know what that guy (or perhaps girl) was talking about. I've certainly never seen a character jump a few cup sizes within a short 24-episode series, especially not just for an episode that happens to be a pool/swimsuit episode...

Oh wait, maybe I have. My bad.

The Rant: Maybe miss Scheherezade is, like I am, watching Crest of the Stars or something like that and suffering through the English dub. Or maybe she just doesn't have that much experience with them. I hate to say it, but a lot of times when I've heard the "the money you spend on DVDs supports the [awful, lousy, deplorable, insert negative adjective here] English dub" argument, it's followed by "so that's why I get fansubs instead of buying DVDs."* Then again, it's also fallacious to assume that anyone who's hating on (English) dubs is a sub purist who never listens to English audio tracks and hasn't done so since the old DBZ dub in the late '90s. So maybe she does know that which she hates, but did she ever think that professional audiobook readers don't moonlight as anime VAs because professional audiobook reading is what they want to do and more lucrative? The anime industry never had that much money to begin with (not counting when Disney brings in some big names to dub Ghibli films), which is why they can't get these super-special-awesome superstars to play angsty teen mecha pilots in Gundam Seed Destiny. Imo English dubs have gotten much better in the last 5 years, and that's despite all these business setbacks that have taken place. Then again, they could always just get LittleKuriboh to dub every voice in every anime. I'm sure that would solve the problems Neutral

* I mean, of all the justifications to DL anime, that's the best they can come up with?
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 5861
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:00 am Reply with quote
I'll agree with the rant in the sense that it's irritating that part of the price of your anime DVDs are to pay for the dub, and sometimes the dubs are terrible, but dubs have vastly improved over the years. I guess it's a matter of opinion, though - there are even some Japanese VAs who I feel do a mediocre job in certain roles. I always rail against the Fullmetal Alchemist dub, which I feel is overrated, but I'd be foolish to acknowledge that I'm in the minority in disliking it. Some people don't even like the Cowboy Bebop dub all that much. It's possible, I guess.
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0utf0xZer0



Joined: 08 Dec 2006
Posts: 78

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:01 am Reply with quote
The biggest problem I have with dubs (and I'll admit that many of the dubs I've heard are older) is the inclusion of American accents and stereotypes/slang/etc in some of them. Most of the time the characters portrayed are not American, and it just totally annoys me... not because I'm anti-American, but because it destroys the immersion. Overacting can sometimes be a problem too, but I get the impression some Japanese VAs also overact... I just don't notice it because I don't speak Japanese.

There's also the "I heard that version first" problem... sometimes I get attached to a Japanese VAs rendition of a character.

If it weren't for those two issues (and the fact that there's quite a few series I like that lack a US release, therefore subs are my ONLY option), I might actually prefer the dubs. I could concentrate on the animation instead of text, and I wouldn't have to worry about the "speed vs. details" debate... I often find myself pausing in fansubs that try and pack in every little detail, while I also have the sneaking suspicion that DVD sub tracks sometimes cut "minor" information to slow it enough for less experienced sub readers to read. Heck, I already listen to the dub for many faster paced comedies just because I don't like that tradeoff.

Oh yeah, and one other thing you miss with dubs: Epic Engrish. To those buying the Black Lagoon DVDs when they're released here, you owe it to yourself to listen the Japanese track for a few episodes at least once... there's some hilarious bits in there.

(Yes, I do realize Engrish can destroy immersion too is the character is supposed to be a native English speaker... but usually I'm laughing too hard to care, whereas "Americanized" dubs just annoy me. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it.)
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ChichiriMuyo



Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:01 am Reply with quote
"I'm going to assume you meant the early 1990's, since I do know the show you're talking about and last I checked I wasn't alive at the turn of the 20th century."

Way to criticize a trivial typo, Zac. How's your ego feeling after that little padding? Really, it was obvious what time period he was talking about simply based on all of the other anime he was talking about, let alone the fact that you knew what he was talking about. Yet you still have to take a jab at him for hitting the "0" key instead of the "9" key, when they are right next to eachother. What is that makes you attack people who come to you for help? I mean, this guy didn't ask you when Berserk season two was coming out, he asked you a legitimate question. Yet you still have to take him to task for a mistype?

You're likely the most well known source of information like this, and you're definitely this site's most well known representative, yet you take every chance possible to alienate people who would otherwise be your fans and regular ANN visitors. Heck, some of these people aren't even real anime fans yet (maybe they, say, remember some thing they watched over a decade ago and might get more into it with the right help) and you're essentially telling them: "Hey, we're all a bunch of *******s, so you really don't want to like the things we do."

You do this job on the premise that you are helping anime fans, but really you're hurting the community with your condescending attitude.

*shakes his head in disgust*
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6807
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:12 am Reply with quote
ChichiriMuyo wrote:

*shakes his head in disgust*


*eats cheetos, drinks mountain dew*


Last edited by Zac on Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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hagakure|returns



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:13 am Reply with quote
Kenotic wrote:
In the world of anime, I guess you can learn about gay guys from yaoi, feminism from Sailor Moon and Ranma, and Japanese warrior culture from Naruto. It's kind of like learning about Chicago from Married with Children or genetics from Heroes - except no one would be silly enough to do that, right?

As for the rant, yawn. It's about the subs/dubs debate, even if the ranter claims otherwise. We've been there - done that for a long time. I'm fairly certain that there is a preconditioned response from a number of sub elitists: The dubs aren't accurate and the acting sucks. While I'm convinced these days that most (but certainly not all) of this is just echoing what the kids before them said in an effort to sound cool, I've also wondered if this has also become an excuse to simply download fansubs and avoid paying for DVDs. Today's reason? Bad acting.

To be sure, there is bad acting in English dubs. To be more general, there is bad acting in dubbing everywhere. To be even more general, there is bad acting in film and stage most everywhere. It's a fact of life: not everyone is a good actor who is paid to perform, and I'll happily list Japanese dub performances I thought needed a lot of punching up (note: cute and squeaky female voices that are overacted seem to be very commonplace in Japan). However, I can't watch something like Kamichu or ROD in English and pretend that the English dub is poorly acted. Not someone's cup of tea? That I can handle, and have no problem admitting that fans like to watch these shows in their native language. I like to as well, but I like to do it for reasons that don't fall back on lame stereotypes and a false sense of pride in one's hobby.

Quote:
And yes anime can be a religion.....ever heard of evangelion?


Hee... Personally, I think Haruhiism is already making quite a few disciples.


You make a good point my man.

The rant was annoying because there are lot of good to decent dub exist. Perhaps someone should buy the ranter: Basilisk, Gankutsuou, or Ergo Proxy because these show have fairly good dub. Unless she's super bias that even her own English voice sounds awful, peopel don't change unless they become more open minded.
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Abarenbo Shogun



Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 1573

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:21 am Reply with quote
Quote:
It's great if reading Yaoi has turned your friend into someone who supports gay rights; anything that promotes tolerance is A-OK with me. But "squeeing" when she sees a gay couple, like they're adorable zoo animals or something? That's simply dehumanizing and disrespectful. "Glomping" is a terrible practice anyway and I can't imagine someone doing it outside of an anime convention.


And thoughts of those stupid Yaoi/Yuri Paddles suddenly rush into my head.
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