Forum - View topicHey, Answerman!
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| Zalis116 Moderator  Posts: 4812 Location: Tana Village |
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| Yoda117 Posts: 254 |
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Zalis, I think everyone falls into at least one of these categories at one point or another, and for one reason or another. Here's the real question... knowing now what you didn't know prior to reading this thread, does your attitude change regarding your purchasing habits? I find that there are three camps of people when it comes to this stuff: Folks who are going to do it anyway no matter what: their reasons vary, some are definitely better than others, but regardless their opinion is that their ends justify any means. 90% of them (I'm generalizing, but you get the drift) wouldn't purchase a title regardless of whether it was offered locally at a fair price or not, whether it was licensed in their region, etc. You could pretty much hand it to them and they'd have an excuse to go home and DL it instead (my favorite excuse is "I'm waiting for the box set"... which usually is sitting right in front of them). Those who can't easily get it in their areas: not a lot can be done to help them, and while I don't agree with their choice, I can understand it. The guy in rural West Virginia won't be getting my sympathy. The guy in rural Uzbekistan will be. Those who didn't know: 95% of the fans out there don't know the laws regarding this stuff. I don't blame them, because it's not the kind of thing you really think of (and yes, I blame the industry for not explaining it better... at best, I've seen one person who has little background in this stuff from the industry side try; and it was totally wrong, which didn't help the situation). Instead of condemning them outright for unknowingly violating copyright laws, I'd rather explain it to them, provide some resources to check out if they doubt it (or have additional questions) and then make them choose on their own whether or not they're going to legally support the industry, or not. quick edit here: I know someone is going to mention that the industry does explain it with the mandatory warning at the beginning of the DVD. I've read it, and it's the same canned message that other groups use, such as the NFL. It does not actually identify the appropriate regulations which govern their usage, an item which recently came up in a fair use lawsuit. Someone needs to take a good look and change it as needed to fit the appropriate regulations. Condemn the act... sure. Condemn the person... not always. |
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| Zalis116 Moderator Posts: 4812 Location: Tana Village |
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And just to clarify, and so people don't start saying "OMG a mod at ANN says he's going to DL everything!", I don't plan on changing my purchasing habits. I'll still keep buying DVDs in the patterns I have been, as in some "gotta have it now" purchases of the singles as they come out, some "wait for the boxed set," and some "ooh, this might be good or awesomely bad and it's rediculously cheap" blind buys. |
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CCSYueh Posts: 1913 Location: San Diego, CA |
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| Sorry, it's pretty well known that people are allowed to tape shows for their personal use. Kids in Drama & music classes, etc, also get a piece of this in school when they discover the school usually has to purchase individual copies of music/plays/books rather than run copies.
It states the specific part of the code at the beginning of dvds. A co-worker is interested in the HBO series of specials that were run recently on addiction & the possibility of being able to show them to our clients as drug prevention, but knows enough about the copyright laws that he's looking for the official route to obtain the rights rather than just bring in his home copies. And this would be considered educational services, but he knows better. "No portion of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means without written permission from the copyright holders" FMA 12, Bondz, Boy Princess 5, Mail 2, RG Veda "All rights reserved"- Basilisk 4, Young Magician 7 "All rights reserved. No portion of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means without written permission from the copyright holders" Black Knight 3, RG Veda. So Tokyo Pop, Viz, DMP, Dark Horse & NetComics in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS state unless they've given you WRITTEN permission, no copying. For my money "All rights reserved" may be vague on Del Rey's part, but it does suggest your right as purchaser extends no further than reading & enjoying the particular volume you've purchased. I don't happen to carry dvds on me, but I remember the section of the law is specified because of the joke version on Excel Saga where it includes the real law code & adds one for Across involving feathers & a depraved walrus. Even if it doesn't specify the length of the prison term involved, WARNING followed by terminology that the dvd is for home use only & citing legal code seems pretty plain. I believe public viewing is also specified as a no-no unless permission is granted. And I thought ignorance of the law isn't a valid excuse anyway |
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| Yoda117 Posts: 254 |
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IF he's showing the item in full, then yes he needs to get a legal copy (and permission). If a clip is used for educational purposes, then there are different rules. I belive Article 8 of the Berne Convention is a good place to start, but there is an educational clause within the DMCA and the Revised Copyright Act of 2000. There's a current conflict where these particular clauses are being exercised. http://arstechnica.com/ There's a bit more info if you look, but it kinda shows a good example of how even the legal copyright owners aren't fully aware of the laws regarding this stuff. Don't get me wrong though, as a sign of good faith, any time I use a clip of something in a panel or educational environement, I contact the owner and inform them that I'll be using it under the fair use portions of the appropriate copyright laws, DMCA and Berne Convention. I've never gotten anything but a "thanks for notifying us, keep it within the regs and you're good" message back (obviously I'm paraphrasing). Since I'm using clips that run less than a minute though, my situation is most likely different than your friend's. What will be interesting is seeing what happens with EFF v. Comedy Central on similar grounds. That case was just announced this week, so it'll be a little while before we see what happens. FWIW: the actual laws that are cited in the user notification state that the owners are required to cite the "fair use" causes in their notification banners. This is the problem I have with those things, because they don't do that, which helps to further the swirl regarding this issue. The amusing part is that it's considered to be a violation of the DMCA to not include this information in their banner warning, although until recently the issue has never been brought up (because most people didn't pay attention to it). Last edited by Yoda117 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| Yoda117 Posts: 254 |
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Yeah, some of the people are the same, because the same question keeps being asked, and the info is stil not being disseminated. Up until a few weeks ago, I'd never seen anyone actually show where and how the laws existed to showcase either side of the argument. The argument changes when one can actually point to the damn law. I pointed to the laws that cover some of the most common arguments related to fansubbing. If people make the choice to DL fansubs, that's not my problem to stop you. However, if someone says that "it's legal to do since it's not licensed in the US (or whatever home country you're in)," well no, that's not accurate and I'm going to point it out. |
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ikillchicken Subscriber Posts: 2513 Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go! |
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Thats a higly innacurate description. I agree with number 2. I find It tough to believe that any large amount of people download fansubs becasue they don't know its illegal. Idunno, maybe Im giving people too much credit. I have a problem with 1 though. You lump anyone who downloads a fansub (and doesnt either not know its against the law or not have access to DVDs for sale) in the same category. That would be one thing, but considering the way you describe them and that you say 90% of them are that way it seems unfair. If you wanna make generalizations llike that, I think you should seperate it into two categories. People who do it even though they think its wrong, and people who do it because they don't think it is wrong. |
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NGE1113Subscriber Posts: 1017 Location: Harrisonburg, VA. |
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Oh, most definitely. Very little of my exposure to new shows comes through fansubs; for the most part, I use recommendations from friends. Anime showings on [adult swim] have a larger effect on my spending habits than fansubs, as well. All-in-all, removing fansubs from the scene altogether would have, at best, a negligent effect on the amount I spend. |
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