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Isen
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Location: UK
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:25 am |
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I'm pretty new to anime fandom. I suppose I first started watching anime knowing it was anime about a year ago, and have enjoyed it thoroughly ever since. To be honest though, I find the fandom rather bewildering.
As in any group of fans, I understand that there will be heated debates about a couple of high profile issues (I originally come from UK Doctor Who fandom - try going to a DW forum and asking whether the Doctor has sex, and you'll see what I mean), but the anime 'heated debate' topics of choice seem less about the medium itself, and more about the way we see it. Surely how someone watches a given program is the dictionary definition of a matter of choice? If you've got control over how you receive the program, you have choices to make. What I don't understand is why people feel the need to tell others which of these choices is 'right'. I don't understand why these people need to be told (thank you Ranter #1) that laying down the law about these personal decisions is both a) Rude and b) Pointless. Expressing your opinions about the best way to watch something? Absolutely fine in my book. Stating that every opinion other than your own is inconceivable, just plain wrong, and should be discarded like the rubbish it is? Not quite so fine.
What seems most alien to me, however, is what I hear about American anime conventions. I specify American, because I've not heard about any others (although I'm sure they happen - I just haven't spotted any convention reports), and the occurrences at these cons may be unique to the US of A. Frankly, it scares me away from the very idea of trying to attend an anime con. Here in the UK, anime fandom is pretty small. We have our first large purely-anime con this year, I believe. When I have to hunt around my native country for anyone who even knows what anime is, the idea of going to a con filled with anime fans is a very appealing one. But glomping? Paddles? Squealing? Erm... not so much my style. If someone ran up to me at a con and grabbed me I suspect blood would be spilled in short order. How is it that paddle-wielders haven't been decked while participating in their shenanigans?
Finally - rant #3. This I understand. Teenagers giggling over porn is something true and consistent the world over. Teenagers acquiring porn? Not terribly surprising. That it is then to be giggled over rather than got off on? Ditto. Friends embarrassed by immature behaviour and then getting overly po-faced in reaction to it? Welcome to the world. In all seriousness, Ranter #3, don't worry about it. If you let your friend know that she's being annoying by doing this stuff in public, that would probably be a good start to understanding each other a bit more. At the same time, it's perfectly acceptable to giggle over the word 'balls'. Keeping a straight face because you've decided that's the mature thing to do is rather sad. Unless of course, you find balls inherently unfunny.
All this said, I suspect the nature of anime hot topics and heated debates stems from the nature of the medium we support. Anime isn't a genre in itself. It is a medium, covering every conceivable genre of visual entertainment. Since there are necessarily so many sub-facets of such an umbrella fandom, the only things debatable when members of those facets come together is the medium itself, rather than the highly disparate content. Let's say I'm a 14 year old boy and a fan of Naruto and Bleach. You're a 32 year old and a fan of Haibane Renmei and Serial Experiments Lain. What can we talk about? When it comes right down to it, all they've got in common is the packaging. If you can't talk about the programming itself, talk about the media.
Of course, there are exceptions. We could talk about storytelling techniques or the art of dubbing, generic story shape or musical scoring. But those take second place to the hot topics that are much more obvious and much easier to rant about. Are they superficial? Of a certainty. Will they be argued about till Kingdom Come? Probably. |
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10円
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 586
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:42 am |
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| psycho 101 wrote: | | Funny I don't remember mentioning you 10yen or anyone else. Let me re-read my own rant.....hmmmmm.....nope no names listed. So I'd appreciate it if you could please not put words in my mouth. If I had wanted to direct it, or any part, at you, or anyone else, I simply would have said your name. |
Well, I completely fit the bill when it comes to fansubs/piracy so I just made the rather natural connection. It's not that I think you wrote the rant with me in mind, just that I fit the description you gave in one of your rants. |
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2509
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:05 am |
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| psycho 101 wrote: | | ikillchicken wrote: | Rant 1)
I love how he rants about people bashing people choices, and yet goes on to bash peoples reasons for fansubs. Pretty weak. If you’re gonna rant about this subject you should really try and leave your opinions on these issues out of it.
Also, this is hardly isolated to just Anime fans. This is just one of the things that’s wrong with people in general. We all feel the need to force our beliefs on others. You might just hear it more cause you’re exposed to Anime more. Plus since a lot of fans are on the Internet where nobody is afraid to speak their mind and be rude...
By the way, this may be bad but it is NOT the reason why people look down on Anime fans. People look down on Anime fans because of 50% ignorance. People don’t know much about Anime and when that’s the case it seems pretty weird. Then its also 50% just the fact that as much as we all love it, Anime is nerdy. Face it, its true.
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I wasn't actually bashing anyone. That was color commentary. If it came off as bashing then I should've worded my cynic humor better. I was saving my actual views for the thread |
Yeah, Upon reading it a second time it isnt as bad. Especially since youre specifically talking about Dub/Sub purists there.
| Quote: | | What I mentioned is not the ONLY reason anime fans are looked down upon but it is ONE of them. I thought sticking to my own rant would be smart and not branching off into all sorts of other reasons and ideas. It's not as simple as being nerdy and ignorance of the masses. I have no doubt both are also reasons why people frown upon anime but it's not that simple. People like those I mentioned do have an impact. Those are the same people who act like this in your bookstores, Best Buy, and anywhere else. If you think this kind of behavior has no impact on why people look down upon anime, and its viewers, you need to get out more. I never said it's the only reason, but it is one of them among many others. I focus on this reason because this one can be easily changed if people wanted to. Can't change the fact anime is nerdy, or myself for watching it, but the fans who act like ignorant fools can change that and it would at least help other people's opinions some. As everyone keeps telling me it's a losing battle, and while it may be forgive me if I live in my own world of optimism and self denial that just maybe people might change. I ran out of liquor so I need my self denial to help me sleep thank you. |
lol, you could be right on that. I really don't have much contact with other Anime fans in real life. I know for me at least, the reasons Im...I don't wanna say embarased...let me put it this way: The reason I don't exaclty go around yelling from the rooftops that Im an Anime fan is the stuff I mentioned. Im certainly not one of those people you mentioned. it is a bit concerning that people might also look down on fans (even ones who don't act like idiots) just cause some do. I still somewhat question wether your average person has enough knoledge of what Anime or really even gives it a second though enough to make the connection between you and some idiots at BestBuy.
Perhaps were talking about two different kinds of people here. People who know what Anime is, and having met/seen alot of fans who act weird, and as a result don't have a good oppinion of it. Then on the other hand theres people who only have a vauge idea of what Anime is, and don't have a very high oppinion of it cause the little experience they have had with it it seemed wierd and nerdy. As for which of these people are the majority, Idunno. |
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3857
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:15 am |
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Isn't being a human fun?  |
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Steroid
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 324
Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:22 am |
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The rants, all of a theme, were themed well and constructed well, and I disagree with everything they stand for.
They were themed well because they didn't get bogged down in the minutae of dub/sub or homosexuality, but struck at the heart of the issues--disagreement.
Let me start with the Turtle Lady rant. The paradox of sexuality is that its stigmas and taboos provide some of its appeal. Remove them and it becomes less fun. Keep them and it seems immature and perverted. The solution is to make the taboos into paper tigers--have 14-year-olds talking about homosexuality all they want, but keep in the giggles. Make people feel perfectly comfortable with touching their friends, but still keep an air of rebellion about it. In that way it's possible that one can reap the rewards of sexuality without paying the costs. Which leads me into the Tugwell rant.
Anime is fun on its surface. Underneath, it has only what the fandom can put in it. Yes, anime are simply cartoons. The fandom, the extremism, everything for which people look down on anime fans, is entirely the organic creation of a diverse fandom. It's a way to build a tight-knit group on something that's still fun. All the rewards, none of the costs.
Historically, people love to form little groups that limit membership and say that people in the group know things that people outside the groups don't. From fraternal organizations to secret-handshake clubs to local churches, people want to be able to say, "I'm a part of this group. That gives me something that the regular person on the street doesn't have." But in every one of those cases the criterion for membership is something serious: family heritage, philosophy, commitment. Anime fandom is a two-for-one deal. Watch some funny and tragic shows and learn a few words of Japanese and you're in!
That sort of value threatens the people who think that life is a zero-sum game and that all rewards have to be matched by suffering.
That's the major premise, but as to the minor ones, is it so difficult to understand why conflict exists between people who disagree? A sub fan legitimately believes that dub fans are ruining his market and that if they would just learn to read their TV, we could get subbed anime on TV. The dub fan naturally feels it necessary to defend his tastes. An R1 purist (nice term) genuinely feels that it's wrong to acquire property without a cash outlay, and that it's only making things more expensive for him. The fansub purist thinks it's right to do so and defends. People whose values provide the aforementioned sexual stigmas are of course going to slam those of more open sexuality. Even the positions I disagree with, I can understand where their proponents are coming from.
But the live and let live idea is not for me. A half-measured life of compromises and concessions to something I disagree with is not one I could enjoy. And it strikes me that, "Stop with the extremes and find a middle ground!" is itself a rather extreme position.
Which leads me to the Yifan Sun rant, which had the best position of the three. Yes, we need more logical justifications of our positions and less "The fans of /anime/ are so stupid!" comments. But there's no reason that bashing an anime can't be part of that. |
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3857
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:27 am |
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| Steroid wrote: | | The rants, all of a theme, were themed well and constructed well, and I disagree with everything they stand for. |
No change there then.  |
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Dorian
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:38 am |
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| If we cannot have Zac the rants are a fair substitute but they do not replace the real thing. The cat is lovely. Thanks! |
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belisarius
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 193
Location: Concord, NC
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:57 am |
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Anyone else getting really tired of the rants in general? It was bad enough when Zac (and/or the rest of the ANN staff) decided to give disillusioned, inarticulate anime fans everywhere a voice in his column but to extend to an entire column full of them? Yuck. Between Flake of the Week and the Rant, it's almost like Hey, Answerman! is turning into Hey, ANN Reader Livejournal! Continue to publish them if you must, but please don't let it get out of control. Maybe next time Zac decides to take a weekend off, hopefully you'll know in advance and can schedule a guest Answerman like someone from ADV (they certainly seem invested in the site) or some other industry professional. Ideally this would be someone who possessed basic, high school level writing skills and the ability to use their spell checker.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is, there are millions of places I can go on the internet to hear ignorant teenagers run their mouthes about anime. There are only a handful I can come to and rely on to get objective, well written news related to the anime industry. I sincerely hope ANN remains solidly in the latter camp. |
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Eos
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 165
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:17 am |
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| Quote: | | "Have fun at the "X" panel getting aids." These are my peers in the anime fandom? |
Nope, that's the line for the 4chan panel. Saying 4chan is a clear representation of the anime community is like saying all anime fans are pedos, one fridge group doesn't stand for everyone.
Look, there are aspects of the anime fandom that grate on everyone's nerves, but enough to spawn six paragraphs of rage? Cons are about fans interacting, if it's the fans that aggrivate you so much, avoid cons.
| Quote: | | (Which we actually don't, we speak American. English is the good ole King's English that is spoken in ENGLAND and not in America. Not anymore since our little party anyway.) |
Too many soapboxes.
| Quote: | | In that case, I implore you to define and show your admiration of anime by love, not by hatred. |
I like this phrase. Make love, not trolls |
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supercait86
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Posts: 14
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:27 am |
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| Nerv1 wrote: | | Quote: | | They think inserting Japanese words into their daily speech is so kawaaaiiiii. The really sad fact is it's not just kids under the age of say 14 or 15. |
This is actually true based off of my expriences. Recently I was harassed by some Wapanese juniors and seniors who thought I was Japanese(I'm Chinese, FYI) and they started screaming words like echii at each other and thought they were so cool ever sinced they were obsessed with anime and drew their own manga whenever they had a chance. Oh yeah, about their harassment, they started worshipping(?) me because they thought I was the closest thing they had to Japanese culture. |
My boyfriend, who is Korean, went to a con with me and was an absolute celebrity. He wasn't cosplaying, but tons of girls were stopping him to take his picture. Some girls came up to tell him they love him...in Chinese. Not really sure how that fit into anything. He was kind of scared the whole weekend. 
For the first rant, I think it achieves its purpose of, well, ranting. I get annoyed by many of the same things. I don't see why someone has to be so strongly positioned over something that in the grand scheme of things really doesn't matter. If both subs and dubs are available, what's the problem? Just watch it however you want to. Same with most of the issues.
Second, I kind of lost my way here, but I think the point was not to judge anime...which seemed a response to last week's question which mentioned Ouran. It's annoying for me with anything when someone bases opinions off of little information and takes it as indicative as the whole and proceeds to be very vocal about said opinions.
Third, 14 seems like forever ago, but it really hasn't been that long. A lot changes around that time. I think my life centered around making it home by 5:30 to watch Outlaw Star on Toonami. I don't really have a point here...but times really change so fast.
Lastly, I miss the column, but rants are better than nothing. I don't really see a problem giving people a bit of a voice, and it tends to generate a lot of discussion, which I think was the goal of the rant section in the first place. If you don't want to read them, you don't have to. I truly appreciate the amount of work that gets put into this site.  |
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mike.motaku
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:29 am |
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"I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.
I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.
The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do
They're really saying I love you.
I hear babies cry, I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll never know
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself what a wonderful world."
That said, ultimately any hobby is best viewed as a solitary pursuit. People being what they are are always going to find someone who may like the same general thing they do but not in the exact same way or to the exact same degree. That difference usually causes conflict. And that conflict devolves sooner rather than later into screaming lunacy of one kind or another.
The one thing bugging the ever-living crap out of me right now is the linguistic drift to the phrase "based off of". Something may serve as the basis for something else or something may be based on something else. Based off of? Overcomplicating and just plain bad use of the language. But that's just me. |
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astroasis
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:30 am |
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Rant #1 - I liked this one. Well-written and very true. Having opinions is fine, no matter what those opinions are... but trying to force others to share those opinions is futile and downright annoying.
Rant #2 - I'm not sure I completely "got" this one... but I think bashing any show's fans is pretty lame. I weep for people who have nothing better to do with their time.
Rant #3 - Okay, at 28, the LAST thing I want to read is some 14-year-old girl bragging about how "mature" she is. That aside, "balls" is a pretty funny word. |
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Eos
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 165
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:42 am |
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| britannicamoore wrote: | | Secondly...everywhere you go there are stupid people. Not just in anime cons or gatherings. Sports fans, art people, teenagers, everyone. |
Confined to small area or building, they can be even worse. Perfect example: I was at Disney's MGM a few weeks back, during the day of the national cheerleaders' competition. Imagine a park filled with screaming tweens in uniform, on every line you were on. It makes the ladies of Yaoicon tame by comparison. |
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bci110
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 390
Location: Cleveland, OH (formerly known as biliano - actual join date: 11-Feb-2004)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:56 am |
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| belisarius wrote: | | Anyone else getting really tired of the rants in general? |
Yes, I am. That's basically why I don't read the Hey Answerman column with any regularity anymore.
Last edited by bci110 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GaaraFreak
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:57 am |
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I've been reading the Hey Answer Man column since probably august of last year and for one am getting sick of hearing the dub vs sub rant. I completely agree with the first poster. Who cares what you watch.. just watch it and enjoy it! Not that hard of a concept to grasp.. at least in my mind. Nobody cares about your opinions of why you hate X or Y.
But I giggled at the word "balls" a few times while reading the replies... is that bad for a 20 year old?  |
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