Forum - View topicANNCast - The Shojo Must Go On
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Vertical_Ed
Company Representative
Posts: 278 Location: New York, NY |
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It's kinda strange to read that since...well women are writing these stories. However, according to some Japanese manga critics and some of the Fabulous 49ers (a group of artists considered as the mothers of modern shojo) the rape element is actually extremely important to shojo. Some of them feel it is a key element to Japanese women's literature in general. It's definitely now a "hook" and while it might not work well with other cultures, in Japan it is an time-proven trope that adds dynamics to character development. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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It's not even a shoujo thing, go turn on Lifetime. 9 times out of 10 their movie will be able a woman who is abused/raped. It just seems to be a thing women like. Or even better, go down to the romance section at a book store and browse through those titles... they can get pretty sleazy. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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I think that's kind of a problem when rape is reduced to a character development trick. It's got its own page on TV tropes for that type of stuff. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RapeIsTheNewDeadParents I don't remember an anime or manga where rape was used well, Berserk overuses it to the point where rape occurs far more than anyone going Berserk, My-Hime uses it to explain why a nun was another man's slave (which is one of the reasons why I hate the anime), and Fullmetal Alchemist simply uses it to continue the plot, and to help create one of the worst ballroom dancing scene in the history of fiction. |
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Yorozuya
Posts: 332 |
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I think the thing about rape in stories is that it often isn't really seen as 'rape' by the reader, if you get what I mean. Everytime I see it, it makes me feel uncomfortable but for other people it might just be seen as a highly sexy bad boy sort of thing. He takes what he wants ect He's a real man taking charge. In real life it wouldn't be acceptable but people suspend belief and are in for something smutty so they don't mind, sort of like bodice rippers I suppose (though I've never read one so I wouldn't know). |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2544 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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That's great to hear. Funny too, since Janne can technically be called a "magical girl" title, and those usually aren't known to sell over here anymore unless it's called Sailor Moon or Cardcaptor Sakura.
Ouch. |
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Emichan
 Posts: 83 Location: SF Bay Area |
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Poor Swan 
I had fun participating in the ANNcast. I was thinking some more about my favorite mangaka, and realized I forgot to mention Miwa Sakai, a josei mangaka who writes silly (but fun) stories usually featuring couples with a large age difference 
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Sewingrose
 Posts: 579 |
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Well the woman with the Dragonball Z icon, says now you know at least one. Actually it's weird, because of my old circle of high school friends which was overwhelmingly geeky and female, a whole bunch of us had caught the Toonami airings of DBZ. And a few of us where actual fans of it at one point or another. I think it just has to do with being exposed to it when we were young enough, that the shonen stupidity and the wacky pacing didn't really affect the viewing of it, kids watch anything. Then years later it having the nostalgia value. Though I stand by DBZ being one of my favorite anime titles of all time, if only now because of the absolute hilarity of the plot-line and characters. It's great to put on in a room with a whole bunch of people who are trying to half-study. It takes a minimal amount of attention to follow, and the riffing is glorious. |
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MorwenLaicoriel
 Posts: 1617 Location: Colorado |
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Great podcast! I have quite a few shoujo titles I consider favorites, but I don't typically know too much about it, so it was great to hear people that know more about the genre/demographic talk about it.
Also, I would read an Old Spice Guy manga. Just saying. ----- Personally, I didn't subscribe to Shoujo Beat because when I flipped through the first issue, the only first chapter I actually liked was (IIRC) Count Cain. I remember actively loathing NANA's and Absolute Boyfriend's first chapters, actually, and I don't think anything else really left an impression on me. That being said, I think the main reason it failed is what the podcast said, though, there's just not a whole lot of people in the USA interested in magazines anymore. ----- I think there are Precure fans that are girls, but yeah, a lot of guys. I rememeber hearing once that Precure is made specifically to appeal to both little girls AND male otaku, although I don't know for sure if that's true. ----- While we seem to be mentioning the titles that got us into shoujo, Marmalade Boy and Fruits Basket were my first manga (outside of the Pokemon and Star Wars manga, anyway). It's sort of a shame, what happened to Tokyopop. They really did bring over some great titles before their downfall. I'm not sure what manga that's still being published is out there that I'd recommend as a gateway title.
Eh? I can see why you might think it's stereotypical or something, but from what I've gathered that's just part of Japanese culture. It's not like girls cooking is a bad thing. It's more like guys here buying flowers or jewelery for a girl, and girls... Actually, do we have anything in the USA that girls are supposed to do to show they're attracted to a guy? I can't think of anything in particular, at least not any certain gifts. |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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By the way, I think that 'idol show' they mentioned they couldn't remember the name of is Pretty Rhythm Aurora Dream. It's about three girls who dream of being figure skaters, and I guess they do sing as well, so it's kind of idol-ish.
Also there's Jewel Pet Twinkle on air. Jewel Pet, PreCure, and Pretty Rhythm are all pretty big. Shoujo anime seems to be doing well.
It is part of the culture, to call it sexist is a bit close-minded. I can't think of a real US equivalent to girls giving guy gifts, since Valentines in the west is about men giving to females. While in Japan, it's women giving chocolate (usually home made) to men they like. Then one month later on White Day, the men, if they like the girl, give that woman a return gift (usually more expensive/bigger that what he got). It's a give-take thing. Valentines/White Day is a pretty common thing in a lot of romance anime, since it's seen as a 'test' if a guy likes a girl enough to return her gift. |
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YuriBoke
Posts: 1 |
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I follow @angelx03 on Twitter (my Twitter handle is @yuriboke), and he clarified that he was referring to Maria-sama ga Miteru. Since I blog about yuri, I answered his question and decided to post the answer here for whoever's interested.
I wouldn't say that it's "fake yuri." Since most of the relationships in Marimite are written to be Class S, I would label it pre-yuri. (There's heavy potential, like a silver-rich mountain that hasn't been mined, but it hasn't really manifested.) But I think I understand what you mean. In Utena, for example, there was more ambiguity in Utena and Anthy's relationship than in the TV series because that was as much as Ikuhara could push for on TV. In Marimite...it's harder to answer. Maybe Oyuki Konno (who has acknowledged that people consider Marimite "soft yuri") just wanted it to be a mainly friendship-focused story with yuri subtext to spice it up, maybe it was because more fans tend to be more involved (i.e. produce more fan work) in subtexty series than canon-centric ones, maybe it's because the Marimite novels started in 1998 & Oyuki didn't feel like suddenly changing it later on as the yuri genre came into its own, maybe a combination of those reasons. Hopefully that sort of helps. ^^;;; But I definitely wouldn't say that shoujo "toys" with yuri any more than seinen or shounen. And I am insanely excited about Sailor Moon being re-released here. It was my gateway anime and manga also. (Looking forward to Princess Knight also, and still holding out hope for the infinitesimal chance that Rose of Versailles will come out in English someday.) |
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wandering-dreamer
 Posts: 1733 |
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Pretty sure the idol anime Zac mentioned was Uta no Prince Sama (the one where the girl has these soulless looking eyes). On the subject of current shojo anime in Japan, Natsume Yuujinchou is one (since the original manga is shojo surprisingly) and Penguindrum has some pretty strong shojo elements at times but that one kinda defies categorization so far.
This, so much. Rape (non-consensual sex, whatever you're calling it) is a huge turn off for me in any series and I will drop them, no matter how great they are, if the rape is played up as an act of love or something like that later on. There are some shows (mostly BL) that my friends have tried to get me to watch (and I do like BL) but if there's rape in there I just won't watch it, makes for a sadly short list sometimes. Anyway, haven't heard the whole thing yet but, after all the shojo talk around here lately I have a sudden urge to go out and buy as much of it as I can, too bad that TRSI's YP sale is going to put that idea on hold for a little longer. |
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lys
 Posts: 1008 Location: mitten-state |
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This podcast was awesome :D Thanks so much, Ed and Emily!!
I was on the edge of my seat listening, waiting for you to mention Miwa Sakai in response to that question! She does seem like a fun writer and artist. I love the pink/blonde flowing curls most of her heroines sport :D By the way, if you recall the name of that horseback-waterfall-rescue manga, I need to know what in the world it is!! I was cracking up listening to that. Ed's description of Yukari Ichijo's Yukan Club sounds like such fun!! (and her art is gorgeous, from various illustrations I've seen.) Ahh, more classic shoujo for me to wish I could read someday... Has she written anything for a publisher that is not Shueisha? (that is, can I at least dream that someday something of hers will be licensed here?) As for DBZ, I know there was a decent-sized female fanbase at some point, because I was in it. I think the majority sort of shifted into Naruto/One Piece/Bleach/Soul Eater/Avatar/etc fandoms, as those series became more established here. Or like me, they said "Wait, why am I watching these silly fighting boys when there are all these delightfully girly comics for me to read?" (...I did have a Naruto phase, before diving into shoujo-land and never looking back.) |
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Emichan
Posts: 83 Location: SF Bay Area |
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Ok, the ridiculous manga I describe is "Torokeru ~ Jyu" by ANAN Mayuki. It's 2 volumes, and about a high school girl who is secretly married to a wealthy idol singer (of course!). She gets kidnapped every other chapter (and she's dressed in a maid cafe outfit one of those times), and he rescues her a lot. I only have volume 1, but in those few chapters, he: catches her mid-fall while dangling from a rope hanging from a helicopter, rides a horse over a waterfall, and jumps off a cliff with her in his arms and makes a perfect landing on aconveniently passing yacht.
Here's an example of his equestrian skills. Look at the legs on the horse, lol: 
Someday I will pick up volume 2 to see what he rescues her from there. |
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Asterisk-CGY
 Posts: 398 |
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I would say until I hit Paradise Kiss, Shojo for me was much the same. I saw the style like Full Moon or Ayashi no Ceres/Zettai Kareishi styles. It was really big eyes and lots of sparkles, with that happy-go-lucky girl and a somewhat straight guy.
Also I could say one of my earlier scan groups I really followed was Shoujomagic. Parfait Tic, they were doing Zettai Kareshi up till its license (1 chapter away, but they were pretty big on stopping scans when a series released), and a bunch of other really nice ones. Recently it's Kimitodoke, but that's slow. Skip beat too. Kimi no Iro Machi is romance but also doesn't have that shoujo vibe, more like a male oriented romance maybe? Umi no Misaki is another one. Good times. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15296 |
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ANNZAC:
I remember when some girl was crying in front of Miyazaki when he was hosting Spirited Away in L.A., saying that she never had a show like it when she was 13. Of course, then Neil Gaiman tried to do the same movie with Coraline...
One of them willingly gets knocked-up and bossed around by a total douchebag...
It's not that it was toxic. It's that, for a long time, male execs took female audiences for granted and didn't know how, or want to know how, to properly market these titles to them.
Kodocha bombed, because FUNi didn't know who the hell they were trying to reach with it. If they were smart, they would've paid Di$ney to coast off of Hannah Montana with a DC broadcast.
I think Shojo Beat's problem is it came out at the tail end of the print magazine market, and the tail end of the manga bubble, and any demand for it would've waned with the decline of those sectors. (Though I've always said Viz should have at least given Vampire Knight a bigger marketing push after Twilight.) But it was kind of ballsy to try their luck with it right after DC's failure with Mynx. Ed:
'Cus you get more for your money that way? Though, yeah, perhaps Viz could've come up with more compelling bonus content. Should've tried to get some celebs hooked on it or something.
That's surprising, considering CMX barely mentioned it. Or maybe not, because Arina Tanemura seems to do pretty well for Viz, too. Did Emma make money for 'em? Emily:
So I guess you hated Sweet Valley High, too? :wink:
I'm wondering what the hold-up is on it, too. There's a manga in English, and it's not selling horribly for DMP-yet. And the anime's been updated for people who didn't come of age in the early 90s. So why is that one stalled?
Yeah, I love the OP theme song, and actually think it could cross over, because of its retro sensibility, since a lot of 80s cartoons are cashing in on home video for that reason. As for that still, I'd love to see that sucker JManga'ed. BTW, I don't remember the specific episodes of Sket Dance, but there's apparently a recurring magical series where the female leads are pregnant. :lol: Plus, there's this female shojo fan who acts out all the facial expressions and fantasies of the genre. classicalzawa: I avoided shojo because of CLAMP, because I thought it was all stupid Hot Topic airheads aping male fantasy tropes, 'cus of them. But Mars changed that attitude. I am so glad we got it, 'cus we needed it, even if it was underappreciated here.
There are shonen authors who dabble in shojo. Someone once showed me some samples of that kinda art which Otomo worked on back in the day. As for FB, am I the only one who couldn't get into it the way I'd like? No real sense of urgency to the main story for me to continue. And as for my personal gateway manga, Rastetsu and/or Honey Hunt. But everyone seems to dig Full Moon, so I guess that one would make sense. |
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