Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-05-18]
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Ai no Kareshi
 Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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I don't mean to open a can of worms here, but I was just curious as to why pedophilia is regarded as a fetish and homosexuality is not? |
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Ningensei
 Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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The problem with that arguement is that most pedophiles aren't responsibe about it. More likely than not pedophiles will act out on their fetishes. Even if they are able to control it for twenty years, being a pedophile is not something you can cure, like being a serial killer. I am speaking from personal experience, I know someone very close to me who was molested as a child. It is NOT okay. Please don't go around saying being a pedophile is ok, it's just not right. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I think I'm going to host a panel at one of the upcoming conventions wherein I supply a powerpoint presentation of the worst quotes from the forums and I sob openly for 50 minutes. For the grand finale I'll shoot myself in the face. |
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Ningensei
Posts: 333 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I think I am going to have to share your sentiments. I have tried really hard to give my opinions while being non confrontational in my posts throughout this Nymphet turned lolicon turned pedophilia debate. But the last few posts seem just unbelievable to me. There are actually those who are now advocating pedophilia and that there is nothing wrong with it as long as they keep it to themselves? Pedophiles harm children. Emotionally, sexually, and physically. I don't understand how people can say this is okay? And the whole, "as long as they keep it to themselves" argument is very unconvincing to say the least. Many sexual predators and pedophiles are multiple offenders and even though it seems like they are "dealing" with their urges without children, these kinds of feelings are too strong for many pedophiles to overcome and they may act out any time. I'm sorry, this has just really hit a nerve with me. |
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Moros
Posts: 369 |
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This is the Three Hundred and Third post on this forum. Yikes! It is shameful in a way that it got dragged out like this, there is no excuse.
I think the best way to solve this debate, is to let non-Fans sort it out. They may be ignorant, but they are as objective as we are going to find. SO, tell them what lolicon is, in a way that doesn't influence them as to which side they should choose, and see what their answer is. I am guessing they will be disgusted, but I could be wrong. Only an experiment like that, repeated many times under controlled conditions, is going to tell us whether or not lolicon is acceptable in society. Since no-one has the money to fund such a study, then we are destined to scrap this out for a while yet. Shame, isn't it? My hands are killing me from all this typing. There is another way. Just before an election, tip off a reporter or politician about lolicon, use hyperbola frequently (i.e. exaggerate a lot), and see what happens. If the result is barely a ripple, people don't care. In that case, I will accept that my views are outside the norm, and I will stop attacking lolicon. But that won't happen. America: where corruption rules, violence is glorified, but don't mention the S word. |
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Merkatz
Posts: 15 |
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Those last two "being a pedophile is ok"-post were really surprising... like, what the hell?
Idoubt that there are any studies or statistics about pedophiles who "keep it to themselves, or do they even excist. All the known pedophiles are the ones who've committed crimes. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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People who defend "entertainment" like Nymphet, and others, by saying that "it's doing no harm because it's just a drawing" are ignoring just what it is a drawing of. Mighty oaks from little acorns grow. If there is the slightest feeling of pleasure, or gratification by viewing any depiction of child abuse, whatever its guise, by the artist, as well as the viewer, then the question has to be asked, what state of mind are these people in, and how far are they willing to go before they realise, "wait, this is wrong I'll go no further."? A few run to the writings of a few learned professionals who have studied these things and come to the conclusion, by quick scanning the report, that it "doesn't affect the way a person acts" forgetting that there are just as many in the same investigation who say it has an underlying affect to cause a person to want to go to the next level of experience. Sexual urge is a primative basic instinct that is in all non-a-sexual living creatures on this planet. It's like a hunger that needs feeding, and like all hungers it's a matter of tastes. My stance is any feeling of pleasure, or gratification, even to be lightly entertained by such products, including "Nymphet", is an indicator of a deeper rooted seedling of a sexual urge to perform intercourse with an underaged child possibly anywhere from birth up to 18 years of age. if you can look yourself in the mirror and say "that stuff don't bother me, what's the big deal?" then seek professional advice and stay away from children, and don't have any of your own, until you are given the all clear. I can guarantee if one is caught reading, or just having this stuff in their possession here in the UK, they will find themselves of the Child Sex Offenders Registar as a potential risk. That is how our society views anyone with the slightest interest if such things.There are too many missing, and dead children here to not do so.
a) She is not begging him to "ejaculate inside" her. b) He is protecting her by holding a gun pointed at your worm riddled brain. c) I don't like Coyote Ragtime Show, but Mister looks vaguely like someone I see when I'm shaving, so that's way he is my avatar and not the "school girl". Understand now? I can only hope. 
Last edited by Mohawk52 on Thu May 24, 2007 5:56 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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If you find yourself attracted to children, maybe youre right you cant control that, however that doesnt mean you have to indulge in it. By your logic we also shouldnt blame child rapists because they cant help but want to rape children. Moros:
This kinda response is just a fact of life. Everyone is goona be like that to some extent and youre no better. Also, I highly doubt that we need anexpensive study to determine that lolicon would not be socially acceptable. |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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Old parable: a primitive scientist decides to study the fish in the ocean. He sews a net with cords 10 cm apart. He catches fish day in and day out and makes observations. Finally he documents his conclusion: the smallest fish on earth is over 10 cm long. I hope you see where I'm going here. All the *known* pedophiles are the ones who have committed crimes. Pedophilia itself is not a crime. There could be plenty who are unknown who never commit crimes.
I'd like to see that panel. Neither of those responses addresses the point. Why is pedophilia, the fetish, wrong? It's an internal standard. It affects no one other than the person feeling it. That's making a transgression out of a preference.
That's the exact opposite of objective. Right and wrong are not up for popular vote, especially from the disinterested. There's either a right to think and feel as you like or there isn't. |
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Lyrai
Posts: 173 Location: Potatoes (Idaho) |
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Because you're not supposed to feel sexually attracted to somebody whose body has not gone through puberty. |
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Moros
Posts: 369 |
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@Lyrai
Decent point. Good point in fact. As an adult, I am supposed to care for children in the sense that I protect them. Keeping them safe ensures the survival of our species. Abusing them will not turn them into productive members of society. Therefore, anyone who has lolicon tendencies is a danger to children, and I am biologically/culturally predisposed to feel hostile towards them. @Steroid So you are telling me that average people do not care about paedophiles? That they are "disinterested?" Oh dear, we have a sociopath in the house. Or my metaphorical wall I was speaking of earlier. @ikillchicken Wow, I agree with you. I know a study isn't necessary in telling me or you the truth, but such a study might be able to drill the truth into the brains of those who argue paedophilia is OK. That quote I did, I know it is a fact of life. I was annoyed with how I cannot win, no matter how hard I try. I guess the best I can hope for is to not lose. @Mohawk52 You don't have to justify yourself and your Avatar, though you are perfectly entitled to do so. My heart goes out to the McCanns. I feel sick, that when I wonder what has happened to her, I hope she is dead already. The worst outcome is her being kept alive only to be a sex slave to some sicko(s). Of course I would rather wish she was alive and well, but with the publicity I doubt her captor(s) would risk keeping her alive for long. I hope that she is in a better place already, I solemnly do. |
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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That makes it wrong from a standpoint of evolution--it's a preference against passing on one's genes. But that would also make fetishes for anything other than reproductive sex wrong. Why is pedophilia wrong in a moral sense? And for what it's worth, from what I've read of Kodomo no Jikan, it's about girls who are just starting puberty. |
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Swissman
Posts: 768 Location: Switzerland |
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I must admit that I laughed out loud from your last post. You were insulting me but still, the picture in my mind of what you called me was so hilarious, I just couldn't stop.
Considering this, your foul mood is understandable, but this makes you even less fit to participate in a debate over a manga you even haven't read yet.
It's absolutely pointless of arguing about "ignoring facts" in a discussion about a title you even haven't read, unless you're in love with your own opinion and wan't to feel superior over moral values which aren't even the point of the manga. By the way, I highly disagree with Zac's argument about drawings with his comparison of a hot woman and drawings of a hot woman. The way he sees it, has some valid points, but the problem is, he generalizes his personal experiences with drawings with the ones of everyone else. When you read a cartoon (or read a book/watch a movie/look at a sculpture, btw), you should distinguish between plot/story/content/ideas and the used artistic methods of representation of plot/story/content/ideas - it this case the drawings. When I see a drawing from a manga like Kojika, I don't even start to compare it to real-life, for the simple reason that the art used in Kojika clearly doesn't strive to be naturalistic. It's as realistic as the one depicting a cute cartoon bunny. Where not talking here about realistic, semi-photographical art-styles, were talking about a very stylized cartoon drawing of how girls are meant to be cute - about drawings of an ideal, not drawings of the real.* Different art styles express different things and it's up to the viewer's interpretation and previous experience how he deals with it. The art in Kojika is meant to be cute, not raunchy, as well as the relationship between the characters content-wise. Nevertheless, the actual content deals around serious issues, and I'd be interesting to hear the opinion about ANN readers when the first volume of Nymphet will be avaible in the states. * (have you ever seen a child on the streets who clearly ressembles Rin? I do not) Edit: I just want to clarify that I don't want to be lumped together with the "Why is pedophilia wrong?"-group of posters. That issue is way too difficult and dangerous to discuss realistic and rational here. I won't touch upon this issue. |
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Iritscen
 Posts: 793 |
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This is getting shameful.
I'm not quite narcissistic enough to repost my earlier post here (about how this debate is irreducibly based on opinions and no one will go away convinced of the other side's view) and say "I told you so", as this thread has continued for about 4 more pages while getting nowhere, but I am self-enamored enough to just mention the post, so I'm no saint, am I? That was the post that Zac referenced earlier about being weak-willed, etc. etc., which was a rather inappropriate response. Perhaps Zac feels that someone can be argued into submission by force of will, but in my experience only polite, respectful conversations, face to face, held over a period of time, can ever convince someone of something when they would have to change key elements in their belief system in order to change their mind, and sometimes the best thing you can do is mentally shrug and walk away from the debate. Ad hominem arguments such as are populating this thread are beyond useless, as they actually make the other person less likely to listen. That should be obvious. My earlier two-point post was an attempt to reduce this argument to its essentials, so that everyone could see that to really get anyone to change their mind (which is the point of discussing it, right? or is this thread simply about shouting at one another a la cable TV talking heads?) they would have to manage to convince someone to, say, believe in God, or to do an about-face on their political views (the rights of some to object to other's entertainment if they find it offensive is a hot topic in politics, after all). But no one took the hint and so this thread barrels on, even when someone brought up the Nazis, which should have led to the thread being automatically locked. Seriously. The mod should just post a link to the definition of Godwin's Law in huge letters and lock the thread. I did add after my first post that debates could serve a purpose beyond convincing others, namely, getting an idea of how others see the world. Well, I think the thread has gone on long enough to accomplish that. How many agree with me? |
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Moros
Posts: 369 |
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Godwin's Law - what a crock of baloney. It just bamboozles me how idiots can say
So, my message to anyone who thought Godwin's Law should have been applied (two people so far have voiced this), is that you are doing a disservice to the victims of the Nazis. By hiding behind it, you are cheapening their pain. By refusing to accept that maybe you are acting as nonchalantly as they did, you make it clear that you are exactly like them - never accepting responsibility for your actions. |
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