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Seven Seas Entertainment Talks about Nymphet


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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:52 am Reply with quote
Geez, after Joe Queseda insults fandom with his jerkariffic response to the controversy surrounding the "tentacle hentai" cover of Heroes for Hire #13 earlier this week........... we get this.

I was kind of thinking "Well, if Marvel doesn't respect my intelligence, mabye Manga publishers do?"

I guess stuff like this means they don't. With this kind of response, I think Seven Seas is severely disrespecting the concerns of fans who spoke out against Nymphet, and doing the rest of it's line of comics/manga a disservice by taking such an immature approach to a press release.........
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:19 am Reply with quote
How is this severely disrepecting the concerns of the fans? I wanna throw a rock at my computer everytime I see an Answerman column where this manga is constantly under fire by people who have never read it. It's gotten to a point that people want to MAKE the world aware of lolicon and that's a very very dangerous thing to do right now in America.

Mr. DeAngelis has addressed your concerns by telling everyone who's screaming CP that you have no idea what you're talking about. I for one have not read it and refuse to give judgment until I've read it and I suggest the rest of you do the same. Chances are this'll be like Strawberry Marshmallow where vendors just won't carry it for the risk that pedophiles might use it for their own special "entertainment", so why are you so worried?

People who are complaining right now are afraid. They are afraid that their precious solitude of being an otaku is going to collapse and Dateline's going to start doing "To Catch An Otaku" specials.

Tell me, if Negima, which is about a 9-year-old teacher who has at least half of his 14-year-old class making sexual advances on him, didn't garner this kind of response, why do people believe this will. And it's clear from those scans that the teacher isn't a pedophile... and really don't get me started on Rin. Little girls in America are far worse in comparison.
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ZeroRyoko1974



Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:35 am Reply with quote
Answerman ought to be leaping for joy at this anouncement. If the character in the manga was changed to say a middle school student nobody would bat an eyebrow. How many under aged anime/manga characters have been in love with older men/teachers over the years? Asuna and Takamachi. Akane and Dr Tofu. Why no outrage at Mogi prostituing herself in Initial D? What of Sana calling her manager her "pimp"? Sakura and Yukito? Anime and manga has been littered with these kind of relationships over the years.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:53 am Reply with quote
Well this was on the shelf at Barnes & Noble the other day. Not sure if it was supposed too though. (Although I did look up the release at Amazon and it says the 25th, and I am pretty sure I was at the store either Friday or Saturday).

Anyway, when I saw it, I remembered there being all this hub- bub about it, so I of course picked it up to flip through it. There was no plastic wrap, if there was I am sure some manga rats removed it already. I first did a quick look at some pictures, and really didn't find anything too bad really. So then I did a spot read, and found out that most of this stuff is implied through the dialogue. But the teacher always seems to be resisting and trying to make her stop, so I don't see what the problem is. Then again I didn't read the whole thing so I don't know if he ever does give in or not. In the end that sort of thing isn't my bag baby, so I put it back. I was more interested in another SS title anyway, I was just drawn to the controversy.

So my take. Given the subject matter I understand why people are being very cautious and against this title. But giving it a good spot read has made me think it is a bit of an over-reaction. And just taking one or two panels at a time, certainly puts things out of context a bit. I mean there are things that lead up to some of the more bizarre situations. So I guess back when I was reading the internet "talks" over it, I was in the "this should be blocked from mainstream stores" camp. But after looking through, I am in the, "its not quite as bad as you first think" camp.
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radda



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:54 am Reply with quote
Paploo wrote:
With this kind of response, I think Seven Seas is severely disrespecting the concerns of fans who spoke out against Nymphet, and doing the rest of it's line of comics/manga a disservice by taking such an immature approach to a press release.........

Excuse me what? How is this disrespecting anybody? This man is trying as hard as he can to PLEASE you people. He's willing to go to the retailers, explain the controversy, and let them change their minds about stocking the title. I don't see how this is disrespecting anybody!

He's going above and beyond what you'd expect a man at his level to do, especially by actually talking to us himself. I applaud him and his efforts, and if I was interested in the manga at all, I might have bought it. I WILL look into some of those novels Seven Seas are doing though.

As for the debate itself: holy crap you guys are uptight. It's not pornographic, and it's not like the two are actually having any kind of relationship other than teacher and student. The girl is FORCING this stuff on him, and he obviously doesn't want it. You guys have serious issues if you have a problem with anything with a little girl in it.
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:07 pm Reply with quote
ZeroRyoko1974 wrote:
Answerman ought to be leaping for joy at this anouncement. If the character in the manga was changed to say a middle school student nobody would bat an eyebrow. How many under aged anime/manga characters have been in love with older men/teachers over the years? Asuna and Takamachi. Akane and Dr Tofu. Why no outrage at Mogi prostituing herself in Initial D? What of Sana calling her manager her "pimp"? Sakura and Yukito? Anime and manga has been littered with these kind of relationships over the years.


Note sure about the other references but...

Sana using the word pimp was a case of her having no idea what it means. In a children's manga. It's a dubious job of ill repute.

Sakura and Yukito is an innocent, childhood crush. A crush. Nothing sexual, nothing perverse- Puppy Love. A kid who has a crush on her brother's best friend. One which she moves on from btw

I don't really think those compare to some of the content in Nymphet.... click on the links above to get an idea of that. I'm sorry, but the two excerpts above... NO, just NO.


Last edited by Paploo on Tue May 29, 2007 12:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:09 pm Reply with quote
I know I've seen something like this here. Maybe not an 8-10 yr old, but the High school girl maybe stalking the teach, knowing she can get him in trouble. Maybe it was a tutor. Can't remember the exact bit. Had to be a teen flick, or maybe a Ben Stiller type comedy where we were supposed to feel sorry for the protagonist in that situation.

The whole blackmail bit was used in GTO-where the girl posed with Onizuka while her friends took pix.

And not to mention, the whole Mahoromatic teacher chasing her students which was also in Midori, wasn't it? It's ok because it's a female chasing teens? It never did anything for me. Of course my pref in yaoi runs to the more mature looking (seme) guys, not the boyish (uke) types. The only boys I fall for in manga are the ones I want to mother like Rath in the Dragon Knights flashbacks or Taiki in 12 Kingdoms--give 'em a hug & tuck 'em into bed, not anything more.
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kolibri



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:20 pm Reply with quote
I for one applaud Jason DeAngelis for this.

I haven't read Nymphet (nor do I intend to), so all I've seen are those few very controversial scans that do make one question if there is any context sexualizing an 8-year old would possibly be ok. But like DeAngelis says, Japanese have a very interesting sense of humor, and especially when it comes to sexual content with kids it's likely that most of us won't get it. Some of us won't want to get it, and that has to be respected too.

However, if this kind of material - which is still legal as it actually doesn't have sex in it - is to be published, I'd rather it be published with a frank conversation like DeAngelis wants to start, than in a dark corner with a paper bag praying that no one "normal" will ever find out. I can't see how this is disrespectful or bad.

It will be very interesting to see how the retailers will respond...

(And BTW, I got an email from Amazon the other day recommending Nymphet to me based on my past purchases... Embarassed Mainly based on Kashimashi, which I didn't even like... I keep trying yuri, but seinen yuri just turns me off big time... too little josei yuri published - but that's another topic altogther.)
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Scaramanga



Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 129
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:33 pm Reply with quote
Paploo wrote:
Geez, after Joe Queseda insults fandom with his jerkariffic response to the controversy surrounding the "tentacle hentai" cover of Heroes for Hire #13 earlier this week........... we get this.

I was kind of thinking "Well, if Marvel doesn't respect my intelligence, mabye Manga publishers do?"

I guess stuff like this means they don't. With this kind of response, I think Seven Seas is severely disrespecting the concerns of fans who spoke out against Nymphet, and doing the rest of it's line of comics/manga a disservice by taking such an immature approach to a press release.........

Wow, troll much? If the best support you can come up with are Livejournals, I've really got nothing to say.

I'm really baffled. Did these same people raise a stink when Shin-chan waved his penis all over the place, even in front of *gasp* adults?
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 8533
Location: Do not message me for support.

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:34 pm Reply with quote
Paploo wrote:
With this kind of response, I think Seven Seas is severely disrespecting the concerns of fans who spoke out against Nymphet, and doing the rest of it's line of comics/manga a disservice by taking such an immature approach to a press release.........


I don't think Seven Seas is disrespecting anyone. They've stated their position, they've recognized that not everyone agrees with them, and they've decided to look into the matter.

When a company acknowledges an issue brought up by online fans and changes it's release schedule, I think that's showing a lot more respect than what can usually be expected.

At the end of the day though, I expect that Seven Seas will publish this title, although it may not end up on the shelves at big retailers, I'm sure it will be available from all the specialty stores. Which, IMHO, is probably the best way to handle the title at this juncture.

While the whole loli issue doesn't push my buttons nearly as much as Zac's, I agree with him on this title. I've read (the first volume of) Kodomo no Jikan, and while the plot is funny, and it's true that the adult teacher harbors no fetish for the child, the fact is that the child is often presented to the readers in a sexualized way that could make North American readers squirm.

If it's true, it might very well be in Seven Seas best interest to limit the amount of public exposure given to the title, in order to avoid negative publicity.

Of course, that opens up a whole other can of worms about whether or not a company should self-censor in order to avoid potential problems. But in the face of it all, I think that there are times that a company should, and this might be one of them.

-t
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Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 685

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:54 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
My personal stance on this title is, if it's good enough for the Japanese, then it's good enough for us. I had the opportunity to live in Japan for six years, and so I understand and appreciate their cultural nuances and wacky and often bizarre sense of humor.
Oh really? Appreciate this:http://ebasic.easily.co.uk/​04F022/​036051/​nerd.​html Using the Japanese as a crutch to defend fetishes that disgust them is low.

Last edited by Anymouse on Tue May 29, 2007 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eos



Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 168
Location: Jersey

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Splitter wrote:
People who are complaining right now are afraid. They are afraid that their precious solitude of being an otaku is going to collapse and Dateline's going to start doing "To Catch An Otaku" specials.


Or afraid of having their hobby labeled "pedophilic." You said it yourself, making the "world aware of lolicon and that's a very very dangerous thing to do right now in America." People who are closet otaku aren't those who are worried, it's those who enjoy anime/manga and don't want to be ashamed to be a fan. I'm not so sure Nymphet is worth that cost.
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CMB



Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 43
Location: Lock Haven, Pa.

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:11 pm Reply with quote
This makes me sad, because the forces of censorship have won this round. This will also make it hard to bring anything to market that is not to popular taste. Crying or Very sad
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Scaramanga wrote:

I'm really baffled. Did these same people raise a stink when Shin-chan waved his penis all over the place, even in front of *gasp* adults?


This thread has so many awful, specious equivalency fallacies it's making my head hurt.

Shin-chan waving his junk around is not sexualized. I don't even know if you CAN sexualize Shin-chan; the artwork is nigh-abstract. Rin in Nymphet is an intensely sexualized character; the endless panty shots and bold-faced sexual allusions and advances make this extremely obvious. The difference between that and Shin-chan is enormous.

All the other "Oh well they've been doing things exactly like Nymphet for years!" stuff is fallacious and disingenuous. Sana calling her agent a "pimp" is the same thing? Spare me.

For the record, the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees Seven Seas' right to publish this manga here; it is not pornographic and therefore doesn't break any laws. The Constitution also guarantees my right to speak out against this sort of material, however. Seven Seas is perfectly within their rights publishing this book here; those of us who are outspoken about our disgust with Nymphet are not crusading against free speech. My intent was never to somehow squash the first amendment.

Am I happy that they're taking a different approach to this release? Yes, of course. I'm glad that they're letting retailers know what kind of content is in this book so they can make an informed choice on whether or not they want to carry it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Would I rather they not publish it at all? Yeah, you bet. But this is America, and our laws say otherwise.
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2616
Location: Out.

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:32 pm Reply with quote
Like I asked in the other thread why wasn't anyone around having a litter of kittens when they announced they had this title? Why did it take till 2-3 days before the title to hit the shelf for someone to go: "Oh yeah people seem to think bad about this story we should do something?"

next time something like this arises why don't some people try reading the book before they get it "put on hatius/ banned"? And I when I say read the book I mean read more than 2 pages. Rolling Eyes
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