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v1cious
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 3870
Location: Fresno, TX
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:23 pm |
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| HellKorn wrote: | I don't have much of an opinion, honestly... I don't really care for Gonzo outside of Gankutsuou and Last Exile, but I have enjoyed their adaption of Bokurano. I haven't read the source material (put it off for a reason I can't recall) so I'm not going to throw fits about them cutting out edgy material...
Really, if the themes stay intact and the anime doesn't shy away from statements that Kitoh tries to make along with him setting down the law for what can and cannot be changed, I don't see much of a reason to piss and moan.
| v1cious wrote: | | please no. after the way Dark Horse treated Narutaru, i don't want to see any more of Kitoh's work licensed over here, unless the company plans to go all the way with it... which is not going to happen. just look at the firestorm that was created by Nymphet. |
Jesus, dude, are you even reading Dark Horse's Berserk, or their recently released MPD Psycho? Really, outside of Viz (who knows that they couldn't target at kids, so they wouldn't edit it as much as Monster and The Drifting Classroom -- they wouldn't), manga companies editing aren't that common. People will also point out CMX's handling of Tenjho Tenge, but beyond that and a couple of other titles, they haven't touched anything else. Tokyopop is incredibly infrequent with it, and I'm not aware of ADV Manga editing anything. And Dark Horse? I've already pointed them out; with only one of Sonada's works (forgot the name), Narutaru, and Shadow... something (crap memory), they've released everything else "unmolested" at some point or another and will most likely never edit a manga again.
The comparison to Nymphet? I haven't been involved in any kind of discussion over that for a few weeks, but comparing the shameless, shallow presentation of that to Bokurano which does actually have some points to make is a real stretch. I know fans of the former might feel outraged at that for some nonsensical reason, but to argue that it has equal "literary merit" or whatever one would care to call it compared to Bokurano is inane. |
Narutaru is Shadow Star in america, and the problem goes far beyond violence, it was because of more risque issues that i don't want to get into. you'd understand if you read the manga... such is the case with Bokurano. |
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HellKorn
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1384
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:34 pm |
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Zac's comments make me wonder how many Stanley Kubricks there are in the anime industry... It'd be kind of nice to experience a time when more than just a small percentage of the series/OVAs/movies done aren't pandering to fans who "want it simple and by the book."
| v1cious wrote: | | Narutaru is Shadow Star in america, and the reason it was dropped wasn't because of violence, it was because of more risque issues that i don't want to get into. you'd understand if you read the manga... such is the case with Bokurano. |
I am aware of that. When Dark Horse first licensed Narutaru, volume six hadn't come out yet/they didn't read up to that point, and so when things such as a rape came about, they edited it. Now, because Super Manga Blast didn't go over well and people weren't buying the trades of Narutaru in slight combination of that, the series is on hiatus. Its future in the states isn't the brightest. I haven't read the manga, but I'm not oblivious to its situation.
However, good sir, my comment still stands in that nowadays mature work licensed and released in manga is so unlikely to get edited that I'm a bit stunned to see that, "No, I don't want [insert series here] licensed." Maybe it's just the paranoia set in from people's favorite shounen series getting messed around with. But I find it to be greatly overblown, and when you have the Berserk's and MPD Psycho's getting brought over, unchanged, along with a good number of other manga that have "controversial content" where there is merit to be held, then I find it sad that people become frightened at the aspect of, say, Viz licensing Gantz. They would have no reason to edit it because it would cost way too much work and the fanbase that they would be selling it to wouldn't tolerate such actions (as is the case with every single manga in their Signature, which are all edit-free). |
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os-osiris
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 15
Location: usa ...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:48 pm |
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I'd just like to say that so far I'm greatly enjoying the anime and fully support the director's choice to deviate from the manga. From what was said it definitely doesn't sound like they'll be bringing anyone back to life, so I really don't see what the big deal everyone is having with preventing a few characters from dying.
And really, if it had stuck to the manga's plot completely and just killed everyone off and had that be that, I would have been really disapointed with it. If you ask me, that would be the easy way to end this series, so changing it is in my opinion a much better use of the director's creativity. |
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DKL
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1383
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:02 pm |
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| Panon wrote: | | GATSU wrote: | | I liked Cat Returns, but the Morita's obviously too soft for Bokurano. Just get that Gantz guy to direct in his place. |
Of course, instead of getting this guy who is treating the concept with respect and subtlety, they should have gotten the director of a terrible piece of exploitation trash.
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Oh damn, this piece of awesome conversation made my week. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:04 pm |
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| os-osiris wrote: | I'd just like to say that so far I'm greatly enjoying the anime and fully support the director's choice to deviate from the manga. From what was said it definitely doesn't sound like they'll be bringing anyone back to life, so I really don't see what the big deal everyone is having with preventing a few characters from dying.
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I'm starting to believe that it's more about the fans wanting to feel like they're in control and their word is final because they know best than the anime being good or not.
Once you give people a taste - like Gainax did with Gurren-Lagann - they'll go nuts and figure that they can boss everyone around. It's obnoxious. |
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DKL
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1383
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:10 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | os-osiris wrote: | I'd just like to say that so far I'm greatly enjoying the anime and fully support the director's choice to deviate from the manga. From what was said it definitely doesn't sound like they'll be bringing anyone back to life, so I really don't see what the big deal everyone is having with preventing a few characters from dying.
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I'm starting to believe that it's more about the fans wanting to feel like they're in control and their word is final because they know best than the anime being good or not.
Once you give people a taste - like Gainax did with Gurren-Lagann - they'll go nuts and figure that they can boss everyone around. It's obnoxious. |
But... when you think about it... they still need money to come out with a show; if they lose viewer support, it's still pretty bad and will hinder any creativity that you might be able to come up with...
In the end, I think it's really a juggling game between being creative... and pleasing people...
Yeah, that's kinda cynnical... but what are you gonna do?
It's pretty hard having to put up with everything, I imagine.
That said, I'll wish this guy good luck; haven't been watching the show, but if he gets castrated by most of the fans (which, I'm assuming, makes up a decent fraction of the audience), he'll definately have a hard road ahead of him... |
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hikaru004
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:17 pm |
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I love what the current director is doing also. He has elevated it beyond "kill the pilot of the week" scenario and the order is different so the manga folks are guessing some. The pilots are dying so far. Most of the controversial stuff has been kept in except what I mentioned before for obvious reasons which really hasn't hurt the pilot's story any. It may have helped the recent pilot Maki which has sparked the current drama.
Besides, it's extremely likely from the manga that at least 1-2 of those potential pilots are going to live anyway. So more than 1 survival in the anime is not going to hurt the title imo. It kind of keeps you guessing as to who the lucky one is imo. 
It's the anime version of Russian roulette imo.
Personally, I think that this drama is not worth it when you examine the anime rationally. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 7336
Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:27 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | Once you give people a taste - like Gainax did with Gurren-Lagann - they'll go nuts and figure that they can boss everyone around. It's obnoxious. |
In my opinion, the last straw was not reactions from those so-called fans but because they attacked Toei's Yes! Precure intentionally. That was very un-athletic way of competition (not to mention that Toei is much larger and influential than Gainax), and if I were the producer of Yes! Precure I'd pressure Gainax (not in public, of course) to "show some sincerity" i.e. a resignation.
| DKL wrote: | | That said, I'll wish this guy good luck; haven't been watching the show, but if he gets castrated by most of the fans (which, I'm assuming, makes up a decent fraction of the audience), he'll definately have a hard road ahead of him... |
Which led me wonder why he accepted the job if he strongly dislikes the manga. I don't ask him to love it, but methinks a director of an adapted should at least not dislike the original.
| hikaru004 wrote: | | Besides, it's extremely likely from the manga that at least 1-2 of those potential pilots are going to live anyway. |
That's exactly what the manga has hinted at the end of Chapter 19 (Volume 4). |
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hikaru004
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:36 pm |
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He's done a great job so far either way. I don't think that liking the source is going to improve his performance any from what I've seen.
Precure stomped that Gurren-Lagann into the ground.  But, it's Gainax's fault for not appealing to the demographics of the scheduled timeslot imo.  |
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DKL
Joined: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1383
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:42 pm |
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| dormcat wrote: |
| DKL wrote: | | That said, I'll wish this guy good luck; haven't been watching the show, but if he gets castrated by most of the fans (which, I'm assuming, makes up a decent fraction of the audience), he'll definately have a hard road ahead of him... |
Which led me wonder why he accepted the job if he strongly dislikes the manga. I don't ask him to love it, but methinks a director of an adapted should at least not dislike the original.
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Well, maybe he found the subject matter or the concept interesting?
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Or somebody, like a friend or something that was a producer or whatever, asked or suggested him since they thought that he would be the best choice.
Who knows?
... I certainly don't... |
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Senna
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 75
Location: Somewhere, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:16 pm |
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Personally, I'm very interested to see what course Morita will take on Bokurano. At first I was annoyed by the changes already made to the anime from the manga, but whenever an anime sticks close to the manga only to diverge at the very end because the manga's still going (as Bokurano is), I generally hate it because it doesn't fit or feels unfinished. Some different material from early on may make the rest of the story flow more smoothly into whatever end has been determined, and new material does after all keep the show interesting to those already familiar with the source material. I'll be disappointed if Komo's arc is changed since it was my favorite, but hey, the manga's not going away, so it's not like I don't have that story anymore. There will just be a different one in addition.
As for those annoyed because some of the characters may not die, well ... besides the previous spoilers that Kana isn't part of the contract as well as one other, according to chapter 43 (which is the latest chapter if I don't miss my guess) Jun Ushiro is not a part of the contract and therefore will not die (at least, not of piloting Zearth). Of course, this may not mean much considering the themes of the story, but still. Whatever Kitoh does with the ending of the manga and whatever Morita does with the anime, I think there'll be two interesting stories to look forward to rather than one, which isn't a bad prospect at all. |
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HitokiriShadow
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 4908
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:59 pm |
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Oh joy, I click "Submit" and suddenly the website is asking for my username and password.  Bye bye post.
I don't expect or want directors to pander to fans, but that doesn't mean they can't be criticized for their decisions, especially considering some of the other things he said like the fact that he dislikes the source material.
Having not read the original manga myself (yet), I have nothing to compare the show to and I'm actually curious to see if he'll do alright. I'm just wary because I have little faith in Gonzo's ability to adapt manga series that haven't finish yet. The director's dislike of the manga and my interpretation of his 'save the children' comments didn't exactly instill confidence in me. However, I'm going to go ahead and watch the rest of the series (which I had initially dropped before this ever came up) and see if it turns out okay. |
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Conan-san
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 766
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:18 am |
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Eh...Story wise, I'm of the opinion of "If they don't screw off majourly then it's good" for example: Genshiken did a few things in a diffrent order (also toned down a few things too if memory serves) and Keroro Gunsou had a few alterations as they introduced Dororo earlyer than in the manga.
Gonzo, however, have a habbit of going a bit too far in that regard unless they have another studio (Aic for example) to keep them in check (Seto No Hanayome and Solty Rei come to mind for example).
| hikaru004 wrote: | | Precure stomped that Gurren-Lagann into the ground. But, it's Gainax's fault for not appealing to the demographics of the scheduled timeslot imo. |
I'm going to assume that's sarcasum for both our sakes. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 7336
Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:03 am |
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| Conan-san wrote: | | hikaru004 wrote: | | Precure stomped that Gurren-Lagann into the ground. But, it's Gainax's fault for not appealing to the demographics of the scheduled timeslot imo. |
I'm going to assume that's sarcasum for both our sakes. |
If I remember correctly, Yes! Precure is much more popular than Gurren-Lagann in Japan. The former's target audience are young girls and their parents. They don't write blogs or post on fora, but as a whole they do possess significant buying power, more so than fans of an otaku-ish super robot show that doesn't have many cute girls in it.
Do you think high school / college-aged fans of Gurren-Lagann would buy its stationery and use them daily? Precure (all versions) fans definitely would do so for their favorite show, and when they do, they don't get laughed at. |
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Conan-san
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 766
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:21 am |
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...
And this is why Toei is alowed to get away with a whole load of stupid stuff. |
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