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Anime vs. American TV – I watch a lot of American TV and definitely a lot of anime, but I never compared the two since there’s nothing to compare – at least for me.

Flake – Are we supposed to sing this or something?

Artistic Nudity – How come nudity in anime is more common with female characters though? The only reason that I can think of is that the female body is more shapely and complex, but if that’s the case it seems nudity in anime is only for aesthetic reasons.

I’m not saying I want to see more nude guys in anime, but if there is such a thing as artistic nudity, it shouldn’t be limited to females.

Alot of people have been debating about Anime vs. TV, so I'm going to give my two cents as well:

First, I will admit that I actually like the first two seasons of Family Guy and Robot Chicken (I'm a sucker for mindless humor that is so ridiculous and random, it's funny to me)

Also, if people are comparing cartoons to anime, there are some American Cartoons that I like:

-Kim Possible
-The Weekenders (I thought it was funny and wondering if they will do another season)
-Justice League: Unlimited -The first few shows had some bizzare/ freaky endings (like the episode where a new group of superheroes are hired by someone to save the world and therefore compete w/ the Just League only to find out they are not real but just manufactured machines w/ fake memories)

And more shows that I can't think of just yet

I found the rant pretty interesting, it does have a valid point at least.

Personally, I don't watch American TV. I used to watch ER and CSI but both went downhill last season so gave up on them. Would watch Stargate but it shows at such irregular times for Canada Sad

Now, how could people forget about Star Trek? Although new stuff hasn't been on TV since Voyager ended, All the series are still great to watch. Oh and I also think Heroes is a good show. Quite enjoyed the first season, can't wait for the second to start.

American cartoons have gone downhill since the days of Captain Planet. Yes there are some pretty good ones like the Kim Possibe but Totally Spies and Winx Club is just insulting. Is there any realy American cartoon that can compare with the glory of Gargoyles? (I acutally own the first season on DVD and yes, its just as good as I remember)

Perhaps I've just turned into a dirty old man(from a dirty young man), but what is with this generation of anime fans' absolute venom towards fan-service? It seems a high percentage of fans today are driven to emotional fits at the presence of a little T&A, often posting their scorn at 'fan-service', even quoting the term as if to hermetically seal in it's nefarious effects.

In the days of yore, as a young anime fan the fare was the Gunsmith Cats/Tenchi OVa/Cutey Honey/Dirty Pair etc. of the world. It found a strong hold on an older target audience that enjoyed not only visual composition/storytelling, but also a 'Benny Hill meets Charlies Angels' vibe that had disappeared on American TV in favor of more soap-centric 'drama' style shows.

To be fair, those shows did not represent that main anime audience, as like here Japanese viewership is overwhelmingly tween-17 and split more evenly male/female. In fact, given the Japanese heavy melodramatic bent, those early series are almost 'Western" in a way. However, giving due respect that todays market is younger and prefers 'teenage action soap' style shows, the 'Strawberry Panics' and 'Peach Girls' of the world don't exactly capture a high ground which should drive a little good-natured fan-service from the field.

Imo, American cartoons had their last hurrah in the 90's with the Disney shows, such the aforementioned Gargoyles, plus Duck Tales, which I consider to be made by adults and for adults, ala today's Fox shows (Simpsons, Family Guy), though of course they were also very accessible to children. Aladdin was pretty good, too.

As someone old enough to remember the 70's and 80's, I can tell you for a fact that American network TV is much better now than it was back then. As with anime, you had a few shows a year which were good, but overall the quality of primetime hits back then was about like what you would see in syndicated shows today. (Well, except maybe for comedies, but that's mostly because today's comedies generally suck.)
One thing I miss about the 80's, though, were the blockbuster mini-series. I guess that type of thing has gone over to cable now, though. (loved Rome, btw)

Goodpenguin wrote:

Perhaps I've just turned into a dirty old man(from a dirty young man), but what is with this generation of anime fans' absolute venom towards fan-service?

It's probably a backlash against crappy (usually harem) shows who's only redeeming aspect is the fanservice. Depending on how its handled, fanservice can also be really distracting and detrimental to the other aspects of the show.

Yeah, American cartoons for the most part peaked in the 90s. There are true diamonds in the rough but overall things just aren't as good as they used to be.

Quick list of some of my favorite American cartoons (in no particular order):

1) Animaniacs
2) Tiny Toon Adventures
3) Disney Afternoon cartoons up to and including Darkwing Duck
4) Batman the Animated Series
5) Futurama
6) Teen Titans
7) Powerpuff Girls
8) The Tick

As for American TV on the whole, I'm not really qualified to comment because all I watch is reruns of all three incarnations of Law and Order and the occasional House episode. (Why has nobody mentioned House as an example of quality American TV?)

lmao nice flake of the week. I think someone is confessing their love for you Zac.

Anime vs American TV: Not all Japanese TV stations have anime on 24/7. I've seen some asian tv shows and films and the acting isn't as good as the acting in North America. I'd like to send Japanophiles on a plane to Japan and have them tell me it's exactly what they presumed Japan to be. Canada has some good shows like The Rick Mercer Report.

Rant: I kinda agree with. there is a difference between fanservice and artistic nudity which North America culture sometimes can't distinguish.

Volenteers at Conventions: I find most of them to be nice, while others (just a few) tend to be not jerks but not nice. I do agree that most volunteers have no clue where anything is because they are volunteers not divine beings. I remember standing in line at Anime North this year on Saturday mourning for the pre-registration, they kept changing the location of the line every five seconds because the volunteers outside were informed differently from the volunteers inside. There was a TV show called The Conventioneers that were at Anime North but a lot of people complained so the volunteer security were more like immature jerks in front of the camera. However, that was just a few and most of staff were kinder. I guess people tend to remember the bad experiences more than the good.

EDIT: great spoiler. I'm sure fangirls would like that ending. I think it's going to be a Harry Ginny ending.

jetz wrote:

Artistic Nudity – How come nudity in anime is more common with female characters though? The only reason that I can think of is that the female body is more shapely and complex, but if that’s the case it seems nudity in anime is only for aesthetic reasons.

I’m not saying I want to see more nude guys in anime, but if there is such a thing as artistic nudity, it shouldn’t be limited to females.

Jetz, I thank you for bringing up a valid point. When I was writing the rant I was a bit dissapointed that I had no male nudity to reference. Unfortunately, this is not just a phenomenon just in anime. In every form of art you will find much more female nudity than male nudity. There are myriad reasons for this. Lots of art is made by men or made to appeal to men. Also, many people, even women, find the female body more aestheticaly pleasing. I'm sure there are other reasons, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

If anyone does want to see some male nudity, you'll have a chance to see Bart naked in the upcoming Simpsons movie Wink

, and no, I'm not joking.

Anime vs. American TV: I agree with Zac that many people in the states seem misguided about anime. I've actually met people who are sure that everyone in Japan must be so much deeper and complex than Americans because most anime shown in the states are considered well-written masterpieces.

However, I think the reasons some anime is bad are different from the ways some American television is bad. For example, alot of people don't like Family Guy because (despite being a comedy), most of the shows humour comes from bits which are worked weirdly into the show. On the other hand, some people don't like Inuyasha because they believe it's too long, too repetitive, and over-hyped. Personally, I think most "bad" anime I see is better than most "bad" American television shows.

I agree with you on something Zac, Lost got a lot better at the end of the last season.... plus they have a set amount of show left to plan out the story in a good manner.

Okay, so I just realized I had an account here for years that I have never posted with. Oh well.

American vs. Japanese TV argument: The same rule applies for any mass media, including video games and music. The garbage to gold ratio is still going to be there, it's just a matter of sifting out the market.

Rant: You could probably throw Elfen Lied into the same category. Great piece of writing altogether, even if I don't like GitS all that much (philosophical crap kind of bores me after a while).

Convention staff: The only convention I've attended is AnimeEvolution in Vancouver, in 2005. The staff there was generally pretty great. I know a guy who worked the nightshift so I can imagine that must strain a bit.

Flake: I recognized it as a parody of Cake right away. I'm not sure what amazes me more, the fact that someone took the time to actually write that, or that s/he actually submitted it.

Emma also uses nudity in a different but still artistic sense, at least in the manga. It's used to evoke another period, calling to mind the artwork of that period and before that relished in showing plumper female figures at their baths. The different aesthetics reflect a completely different era.

As for using male figures in the same way, I can see nakedness being used for men but not for the same reasons (because Japan seems to have some pretty clear lines drawn for gender identity). Bareness indicating vulnerability and openness is probably going to be used with women, and it's used that way in yaoi on occasion. Bareness for men seems to indicate a return to a more basic or savage nature.

Maybe a series akin to Battle Royale (which I've not read but which I think would be ripe for it) would be the place to look? Or what about Berserk (another on my list of need to read but haven't read)? Doesn't one of the characters in that run around without clothes on? Is it fan service or is it saying something about his character?

Here's the way I see it.

If you don't watch any North American cartoons then your missing some good stuff (Beast Wars, Avatar)

If you don't watch Japanese cartoons then your missing some good stuff (Full Metal Alchemist, Rahxephon)

I like live-action shows like Supernatural and Firefly. Sit-coms and cop shows are nothing more than mild entertainment to me.

Quote:

Ron kills Hermione, Harry marries Draco and Hagrid becomes Secretary of Agriculture during Voldemort's first presidential term. On the final page, Rowling announces that she's planning a 10-book cycle called "The Flying Dursleys", which follow Harry's former abusive family as they become unlikely Quiddich champions and learn about love, laughter and friendship along the way.

Heck, the Draco/Harry thing alone was funny, but Hagrid as Secretary of Agriculture?

On the subject of Anime and American TV:
I personally like Anime much better, but I'm not going to outright say its 10 times better than what Americans can come up with. To be honest, I think its that I just don't care about American TV much. There plenty of television shows and movies I've liked that I probably still would like, but I've never cared enough to try. I like what I've seen of the original "Battlestar Galactica", my dad owns the whole thing, and I can't remember even so much as touching the box.
The only show I watch on TV anymore is "Reba", and none of the commercials for other shows make them look very interesting at all. But again, I stress that American TV isn't actually bad. And while this isn't always the case, plenty of good shows get cancelled ("Firefly", "Max Headroom", etc.). In this case Anime has the advantage, since you usually only need 6-7 DVDs to finish a series anyway.
When comparing Anime to American cartoons only, its still just a matter of preference. I don't think there has been nearly as many American cartoons that have been as mentally adult as, say, Evangelion or GitS (sorry for choosing some of the better ones), but not all Anime is particularly smart. There are probably more brains in a single episode of "Justice League" than in all of "Azumanga Daioh" combined. I like the look of most Anime better than just about everything that America makes, but thats just me.

Of course...

Quote:

and it's very prevalent among younger fans and people who have recently become bigtime anime fans

I'm fifteen and have only been a hardcore otaku for 3-4 years at most, so my opinion probably isn't the most trustworthy.

Quote:

that somehow it's a bad thing if anime has become a "mainstream fad" - is wrong-headed.

Why would anyone want Anime to stay underground? The more mainstream, the more popular; the more popular, the more gets licensed.

Flake: I think I like the flake from the "Rainbows n' Kittens" edition best (the response made it priceless).

Artistic nudity: You know, that was more of a short article than a rant. Anyway, "Ghost in the Shell?" I don't buy it. Some of the nudity was more understandable, but it wasn't "artistic" by any means. Why, exactly, does the Major need to strip in order to activate her camoflague? That makes no sense. But even though I never would have thought of an actual reason for it, the nudity in "Perfect Blue" is definately more meaningful and appropriate to the subject matter. Even the less meaningful stuff is presented in a way that makes it meaningful (like the pauses during the rape scene).

And if you consider "artistic nudity" to be nudity that's enjoyable in a non-sexual way, then there is pleanty of that in Anime. Its not terribly common, but its not rare either.

Quote:

Lots of art is made by men or made to appeal to men. Also, many people, even women, find the female body more aestheticaly pleasing.

I totally agree with both statements. (Of course, I'm a guy, so yet again, my opinion probably isn't the most trustworthy).

Wow. I actually had a lot to say this time. Yay.

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