Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-07-20]
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Meiaminkbell
 Posts: 109 |
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Now if memory serves me correctly. I believe that for the longest time, the symbol of "artistic nudity" WAS the male form, because man (and I speak strictly from the viewpoint of ancient civilzations) was the symbol of humanity and thus, more pleasing on the eyes than the female form. Somewhere along the lines however, despite the predominantly male aristocracy (perhaps that's a bad word, women certainly have come a long way since then and are practically equal to men in most fields) the female figure became the symbol of the good and beauty in humanity (for obvious reasons
 )
That was a bit off-topic...  , gomen.
Referencing the post before me, it does bring up the question of whats "artistic nudity". Perhaps it doesn't mean non-sexual nudity, but, like DRW says, it should have some meaning behind it. it's a difficult question to answer. The best source I can think of at the moment is Elfen Lied. Not all of the nudity in EL, but at the laboratory. They aren't naked for sexual reasons, they're naked because as dicloni experiments, they don't need/deserve clothes (to the researchers). Then again, I have no problem with fanservice . As long as it's not in excess or in major disproportions, I like it! *thumbs up*
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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From my understanding of his rant, artistic nudity to him is not just non-gratuitous nudity, but nudity that indicates something about a character or society on a deeper level. In other words its symbolic. The nudity he described in his examples was just that. So a naked guy in a harem comedy might not have any clothes on but chances are it doesn't mean anything deeper. Of course, artistic nudity in western terms often just means an aestheic appreciation of form. And that is seen too in manga and anime, and I consider it to be different than fanservice, though the same scene can often be considered both. |
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Mysticmidnightmaiden
Posts: 123 Location: California (Bay Area) |
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Eh heh heh... I had to do it...
http://www.veoh.com/videoDetails.html?v=v8292139GjzbeFA Me singing the Flake of the Week (to my own melody). Sure, it's basically Cake's lyrics, but I was tired/unwell last night and reading it brought a smile to my face. |
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DRWii
 Posts: 636 |
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I never really said nudity should have meaning to it, I was just thinking about the topic from both stand-points. Although, having importance to the plot or theme is probably better than just "Quick! Look at the naked, transforming heroine!"
I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the ranter meant. I also wouldn't think any higher of the nudity in GitS. |
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StickyToffeePopcorn
Posts: 61 Location: UK |
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Being a complete moron I skimmed this week's introduction, read "Ron kills Hermione" and shat myself.
 I'm never gonna last until the 7th movie comes out...
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roujin
 Posts: 139 |
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Any list of great American television shows that is missing The Wire is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. I'm glad that you think Battlestar is great though.
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Ichigo77
 Posts: 389 Location: California |
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I hear you, I loved Reunion, Vanished, and Drive and FOX has to go and cancel them all. The problem now with American cartoons is that the companies know how popular anime is so they are trying to bring that into our cartoons. Sure it worked out ok with Teen Titans but no so well with the current Fantastic 4. That show is good but can use some work. Even X-Men Evolution from 2000 was somewhat ruined and no where near as good as X-Men from 92. Thats why I'm looking forward to Wolverine and the X-Men this fall and The Spectacular Spider-Man in 08 and hope they are good like the 90's ones. There is no artwork up for the new X-Men but there is one pic for the new Spider-Man and the art is the same style as The Batman and Legion of Superheros so I'm glad its not anime style. Also another reason why I think some people like anime so much better is because with anime for the most part you know it is not going to be cancelled because it already aired in Japan or is doing so well there that they can make a quick ending if needed. Lets use School Rumble for example since it comes out here next month. We already know it ended in Japan so it is going to have an ending and not just end like a cancelled show. Or take something Like One Piece, Bleach, or Naruto where they have been going on for a while and are popular so you know there is no end near for them. |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Personally, I think everyone should be glad I'm not watching these recent and supposedly great series. They'd be cancelled within a season! 
I think I'll just stick with my current watching anime almost exclusively. I'm enjoying it more than I did most of the series I used to watch for a variety of reasons and I've been enjoying it for years now. The way things are going, I'll be on life support somewhere down the road, trying to cross connect the holoprojector to an old DVD player so I can watch Gunslinger Girl one last time before I meet God. (Or fall into the endless abyss of darkness and despair awaiting all those who do not worship the Giant Cicada.) |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Shonen gives us many moments of male nudity. Like Saint Seiya(Shun Andromeda, Gemini Saga. Lizard Misty spring to mind) We saw Yakumo naked in the 3X3 Eyes manga before Dark Horse dropped it. And Goku/DB/Z. Vegeta had a nice rear, Dark Schneider/Bastard, And a lot of the guys in shonen fight shirtless, sp they're at least half-naked. Not that I'm, keeping track. ANd yaoi gives us naked guys not just having sex. They can be taking a shower thinking about stuff. Or changing clothes. ANd well drawn 6 packs are nice-I prefer them to the simple straight shape (no muscle tone depicted-doesn't have to be DBZ muscle. The Saiyuki dudes look good unclothed) SOme of the artists pay too much attention to nipples-no muscle detail, but detailed nipples. So if you can't find naked guys, you just aren't looking. Most of the gals seem to fall into fan service Con staff are no better or worse than the people running the con. If the con has it together, they know the staff is important & they treat their staff well. THere will always be a few power-trip types, but one can find that in real life also. Comparing anime to American cartoons is, overall, unfair because of the attitudes behind them. THe Japanese still respect the intelligence of youth in their country to be able to withstand far more than parents in America seem willing to give their kids credit for. However, I am constantly amazed, considering the state of their anime & video games that Japanese movies often seem on the level of a college film class production. Possibly that makes them have to tell a better tale, but Hollywood can dance special effects circles around most live action stuiff I've seen out of Japan. Standing in a shop that plays the bootlegs it sells, I was actually impressed at how well Ryuk looked in the Death Note Movie (& no, I didn't buy the bootleg because I'm assuming someone will be licensing it with all ther noise it was making) The attitude isn't unlike the attitude one sees that British TV is superior to everything on American tv. Some yes, but they have their crap also. I recall an Alice Copper interview where he commented that, because there were like 3 channels in England, he watched this documentary on soybeans because there was nothing else on tv that night. Yeah, he commented he knew lots about soybeans, but it wasn't the most entertaining night of television he'd ever seen. |
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Haterater
 Posts: 1727 |
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Winx Club is an Italian show and brought over by 4Kids. 
I mainly like the cartoons of American TV back then compared to the ones today. Only a few I like these days. Live-action wise, still good for me. Mostly anime and live-action American TV are on par for me, not counting the other genres from both sides. And I like some other countries shows as well, which puts them on the same boat of good stuff. |
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The Real Justin Bailey
Posts: 6 |
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A lot of people have made good observations about my rant; its good to see that the internet is home to intelligent people. I just wish to clarify one thing: despite the things I wrote, I'm not against fan service. At least when its used in moderation. Some T&A isn't bad, and it can make certain movies more enjoyable. In some cases it can even be seen as artistic if it gives something the feeling of being bawdy or erotic (but not pornagraphic). Unfortunately, fan service is just like offensive humor or extreme violence in that bad artists use it to try to cover up the absence of a good plot and/or empathetic characters. I mean has anyone seen Burst Angel, its terrible. It almost looked as if the creators wanted to create a porno, but weren't allowed to; so they decided to make the closest thing to it. I had to take a shower after watching it, I felt so dirty.
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Mercury Crusader
 Posts: 67 |
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I've never even heard of half of these American TV shows that you guys are talking about. Then again, the "newest" show I last saw was Tremors: The Series, and Sci-Fi cancelled that early to give some other crap show a bigger budget (which I heard they also cancelled anyways) despite the fact that Tremors was giving them high ratings. Most of my TV is considered "old" anyways. The Rifleman, All in the Family, MacGyver, The A-Team, Sanford and Son, Green Acres, Married With Children, and so forth. Hell, even older U.S. cartoons were good. Hanna-Barbera had all of my favorites from back in the day, with stuff like Wacky Races, Yogi Bear, Ricochet Rabbit & Droop-a-Long, Hong Kong Phooey, the list goes on. I don't know much about newer shows, but I noticed nobody mentions them (age thing probably, you young folk don't know what you're missing).
The fundamental rule for any form of media and entertainment is that the bad always outweighs the good, no matter what country it is, what cultural differences there may be, etc. I don't recall TV in the Philippines being that good when I was young, though some of their comedy shows were awesome. Also, there's nothing wrong with any show being episodic. Galaxy Angel is my favorite anime because of that. |
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Ryllharu
 Posts: 70 |
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Avoiding the apples to oranges debate that I think we've sufficiently buried into the ground, if we only look at cartoons vs anime, there's a lot to compare. I've got a pretty good memory, and watching cartoons well into my high school years (a connection that brought me back to anime) there's a huge library to look through.
Modern day, I'm glad to see that people mentioned Avatar. It's a series that years from now, I'll be very happy to watch with my children (when I have some). On the outside, it's a decent action series with a good fantasy element, and comic relief to balance out the drama. Look deeper, and you'll find a lot of Asian philosophy buried in it. Well done research on a large variety of recognizable kung-fu styles to inspire the four bending styles and a host of other secrets only an adult looking for them would find. Hands down a series better than a lot of anime I enjoy. Looking back a little further, we've got Animaniacs. Stupid slapstick on the outside, but with a little trivia knowledge, there's thousands of inside animation and Hollywood jokes, political and social commentary, and Pinky and The Brain. Freud jokes, business jokes, even a little fanservice "Helloooo Nurse!" One clip even evoked an old German advertisement song One last example is the older Batman series from the 1990s, before the crossover with the Superman series (another of my favorites from back then). If anyone remembers the old animation style, think about it if you know a little about film styles. It's perfectly executed Film Noir. The cars, the character designs, the setting (Gotham circa 1950), the shadowed fight scenes with occasional spotlight illumination from of all things, a police blimp. One of the most stylized series ever done in America, and only in the last year do I realize why I enjoyed it so much when I was younger. These are a couple of the gems that really shine from American cartoons. But they're not alone. There's a lot of great series then and now. Just think back and see if you can remember any deeper messages hidden in the plots of your favorite childhood shows. You'll probably be surprised. |
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MASTA13
Posts: 1 |
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can anybody tell me an interesting anime
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PaladinBlue
Posts: 63 Location: Billings, MT |
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I'm getting frustrated with everyone who automatically says "Anime > all", because it isn't. Not too many TV series period can stand up to the awesome of Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs (the monkey sanctuary episode alone is funnier than all of Azumanga Daioh, imo), and then I've never seen any anime that provides aerial combat action like Dogfights does. Then again, I'm big on military history.
Yes, there is a lot of crap on American television, but there's also a lot of crap on Japanese television. I know. I've seen it. A lot of it. There's a lot of good on Japanese television, and a lot of good on American television. |
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