Forum - View topicNEWS: Singapore Anime Distributor Denied Third Court Order
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CCSYueh Posts: 1913 Location: San Diego, CA |
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You never really believed what you were doing was legal, did you? I mean, it's like speeding. We all know the speed limit on the freeway, school zones, etc, A lot of people ignore it & drive 10, 20, 40 miles over the limit & scream bitterly when they get a ticket. I worked with a gal who was futious for getting ticketed over parking in a handicapped spot because she was just going into the store for some milk so she wsa only in there a minute & parked there knowing she didn't have the proper tag. If you buy stuff you know that "fell off a truck", be prepared to get busted for possession of stolen property |
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| starcade Posts: 204 |
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You take out the fansubbers and the people who watch fansubs, and you might not have enough anime fans to allow the current economy to work at all. I'm not saying that as a justification -- I'm saying that as what I see as reality. We've already seen, with the essential merger of the #2 and #3 anime companies in America this week, that the economy might not work now. But answer me this: Do you really think anime could survive in the US without fansubbing? I'd like to know how even the industry types would answer this question -- for it might be central to their continued success. (And one of the reasons that I believe this whole "Japanese companies cooperating with Odex" thing should be looked at very closely.)
The problem with that is simple: They don't feel they have to, and now they have the Japanese support that might spell the end of anime as at least one culture knew it. (Perhaps many many more...)
I would actually tend to agree with that conception -- I would also go so far as to say the same argument would apply to the United States as well.
If they do that, kiss anime goodbye. And I mean that seriously. I mean, what percentage of anime fans with a computer and reasonable Internet access do you believe don't download a thing?? I'd say that percentage is probably less than 10%. |
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| hikura Posts: 228 |
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| Quaote from starcade
But answer me this: Do you really think anime could survive in the US without fansubbing? In the untied states the state of anime has no need for fansubbers and people who download such files. Between video on demand from either satellite or cable providers,the anime network(i believe there is at least one more company that does a anime network similiar to adv) that airs shows on a regular basis,companies streaming shows or giving away epsiodes for free,rentals and many other legal ways of getting anime for free(or seeing it for free). Yes there is no need for fansubbers. Any other questions please ask.I am always up for answering them(mind you it is my opinionn i am expressing).*note this last statement is not meant to be snarky honestly* |
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| F.A.I.T.H Posts: 22 |
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My friend, you are talking about the United States. We're talking about Singapore, which is at least-oh, thousands of miles away across an ocean? I don't profess to know the situation in the U.S regarding the availability of anime or the companies in charge of distributing it, but I do know that Singapore is the country I live in, and I know well enough to say that fansubbing is actually needed here for the industry to even get going. The point isn't simply about fansubbing. It's about why ODEX cannot get to the root of this 'problem' which THEY are facing. Well, I do know for some that solving the problem, rather than finding a solution is sufficient, thus resulting in a tiring cycle of doing these things over again and again and again. Apparently ODEX is in that group. Don't get me wrong: ODEX needs to do business. It isn't right for their staff to get retrenched because of rampant fansubbing of all kinds of anime. If fansubbing was so great as to capture the attention of every anime lover who are deemed without conscience just because they download 'illegally', why are they still functioning? |
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| hikura Posts: 228 |
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But starcade was asking me a question in regards to anime in america.I was only answering his question. I understand that in different countries anime(does not matter if it is japanese or otherwise) has a tough time. As i stated already.I know it would be difficult but if the community in which the publisher of a certain fandom bonds together speaks loudly the voices shall be heard.Yes it will take a while and it will have to be loud but change will come. Why are illegal downloading still exist?One of the reasons is because some people have no scruplous and have no qualms in putting a perverable knife to someone or something to get what they want.Like crime as of right now it will continue to happen no matter what but if we do the right things it can be reduced. |
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| F.A.I.T.H Posts: 22 |
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Simple. Lack of access and resources to get the original, if not an understandable copy of the shows they so want to see. This is really a grey area. Not everyone would want to simply keep the fansubbed versions and refuse the originals, especially if they are good. Sadly, the majority might have this kind of a mindset. Likening murder to illegal downloads isn't that appropriate, though, because there is no immediate tangible danger to anyone involved.  |
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| starcade Posts: 204 |
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I want to be clear with what you're saying: So basically everyone in America who downloads and fansubs could just disappear from the genre and the American anime economy would be the better for it?? That is probably what most of the industry types would say, too -- so I can't say you're wrong... I do, however, have a rather serious issue with how many people out of 100 anime fans you believe fansub and/or download. And what of all the conventions which use fansubs?
Yeah, but... This argument would basically be "shut off the pipeline from Japan to the general public -- the only anime they have the right to see is that which we license and give to them." Under that scenario, I think you could see how important the Japanese decision to support Odex could be, with major ramifications on this side of the pond should (and probably _when_) they decide to go down that road. Would an anime like "Ouran HIgh School Host Club" be worth a plugged nickel if the first that 98% of the anime fans in America (if not more) had heard about it was Funi's Otakon announcement of licensure?
Well, then the question is: Do you think there are enough anime fans who could be "clean" from fansubbing and downloading to sustain a meaningful American anime economy? Sadly, I'm going to say no.
I asked the field a question regarding the United States and whether they felt that the anime economy "needs" fansubbing and downloading to survive. The person you are responding to tried to give an answer to that question.
I'm willing to assert that there's a very good chance that the same situation exists in the USA as well -- think of shows like Ouran, for example. In fact, there are many in the music industry who believe the Internet has forever and irrevocably _killed_ the music industry as we know it. If Odex keeps going, it's over in Singapore vis-a-vis anime. Done. Finito. People just won't put up with it. I've read more than a couple of blogs from people from your country that say they've stopped watching completely.
Why is ODEX still functioning? Help from the government? |
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| F.A.I.T.H Posts: 22 |
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That is, IF they can keep going with people in my country keeping quiet about it, which is highly unlikely. ODEX is using the most effective method to shut out downloaders and perhaps establishing a monopolised market for anime for themselves. This is just an assumption, though, because I don't know how many moralistic people there are in that company.
People are afraid of the law and the punishment following it in this country, that's for certain. That makes it a good way for ODEX to 'curb' a little of this assumed piracy.
I believe my post above yours should have pointed it out. It's not everyday that people have the time and money to go out of their way to get anime. With online fraud cases going on, some people can and will get extremely wary of ordering online, while others simply can't afford the time. Which is why ODEX still has business. I daresay if other distributing companies step up the quality of the anime they distribute and sell, ODEX might be seeing a great loss in business. |
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| hikura Posts: 228 |
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| From starcade:I want to be clear with what you're saying: So basically everyone in America who downloads and fansubs could just disappear from the genre and the American anime economy would be the better for it??
That is probably what most of the industry types would say, too -- so I can't say you're wrong... I do, however, have a rather serious issue with how many people out of 100 anime fans you believe fansub and/or download. And what of all the conventions which use fansubs? I would say the anime economy would be fine without fansubs.With continued penteration of anime in the main stream from video stores(for rentals and purchasing),advent in cable and satellite technology,the ability to stream and download anime legally among other ways to get anime. If people decided to do something illegally that is their choice.But when they get busted and have to pay a fine and/or spend time in jail for breaking intenational copyright laws or similiar i will lose no sleep over it.They made a choice. Out of all of the conventions i go to that are either strictly anime related and that show anime(that are not strictly anime cons) they do not show illegal fansubs because they run the risk of companies finding out about it.I got to 2 major east cons(anime boston and otakon,i go to others but those two are the big ones near me) on a yearly basis.I never seen them show fansubs.If they show a fan sub it is because they have permission and they are given a legal copy with some sort of english track or they do it themselves.That techinally is not breaking the law.If they do show something that is not out on the street yet most of the time it is because a company(adv,bandai etc etc) is showing a epsiode or movie to the public for the first time. From starcade:This argument would basically be "shut off the pipeline from Japan to the general public -- the only anime they have the right to see is that which we license and give to them." Japanese comapnies are very aware of that anime,manga and their music is becoming more world orientated and are letting more of their titles go out to linceces.If you like something that is not legally out in your country you can still obtain it legally.While japanese is hard to learn(no arguement from my on that point) it still can be learned.Like i have said before voice your opnion and have your friends(and their friends and so on) do the same eventually the company will listen and improve or change.If they do not they will be hurt financally by not doing so.I agree it will not be easy. From starcade:Do you think there are enough anime fans who could be "clean" from fansubbing and downloading to sustain a meaningful American anime economy? I say yes.Despite the recent slight downturn of profits once again the market is back on a upswing.Like any other market it will have it's valley's and peaks.I am saying this because the avaiblity of anime,manga and other material related to the fandom is readily and easily attenable.Just walk into any decent store that sells video's you can see a decent collection of anime and/or manga.You can easily find it online.Any decent bookseller(comic shop or bookstore) isn't worth their salt if they do not sell at least some manga.Manga is a great seller.My only minor beefs with the american stores(well for my area i can not speak for other area's) is that related material,the music and related merchandise(toys and similiar) is tough to come by in the store's. To F.A.I.T.H:In america when i said sticking a knife to someone to get what you want it means not literally a knife in the back or stabbing someone.Doing what you fell is necessary to get what you want is how it translates. |
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ivorymoose Posts: 199 |
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| Ok...I've been following this news because I'm originally from Singapore. I'm completely ashamed by this article in the Singapore press defending fansub and illegal downloads:
http://digital.asiaone.com/ From observation (without proof) most viewers in Singapore do not buy legitimate anime DVDs after watching fansubs. The public does not take copyrights as seriously as we do in North America. I'm appalled that the public sympathises with the illegal downloaders. The television station airs anime a few times a week but not enough variety for fans. Odex does not distribute all the titles. Hence, the illegal downloads and bootlegs. Odex should have gone after the illegal DVD/VCD distributors and people who put these videos online for illegal download. They should have worked with other distrubtors and the Japanese copyright holders to do this. They could also organise fan clubs, conventions, balls, events, promotions etc to bring fans together and from there find an opportunity to educate people concerning copyrights and the need to pay for the movies they watch. No offense, but I think that many SIngpaoreans do not see the need to buy legitimate anime DVDs. or VCDs because they can get it free online. My family, friends and relatives in Singapore are shocked when they found out I buy region 1 DVDs for anime. They say that I should stop wasting money when I can watch for free. Education is the key to solving the problem. In this age and time, it is impossible to stop young people from downloading free stuff online. I am very very angry with the article above. They should break down the figures and show how much of that profit is accounted for by sales in North America, Europe and compare that to Asia. |
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| dormcat Encyclopedia Editor  Posts: 7336 Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC |
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With the quality of DVD they produce, I seriously doubt they would do that, for Japanese anime producers would be furious to see those awful translation and video quality. As far as I know, drafts of translation manuscripts have to be sent back to Japan for final approval before the discs are encoded and pressed; I'm really curious about how Odex got away from it. |
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| ivorymoose Posts: 199 |
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You're right! The quality of their DVDs and VCDs indeed need improvement! I don't understand why they choose to punish the fans instead of the distributors. Of course, free downloaders are wrong but to come down hard on them is just not right either. |
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