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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3857
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:08 am |
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| Korb wrote: | Here we go again, indeed! Rin Kokonoe, Kuro Kagami, and Mimi Usa are not people. They're not even human, they're cartoons. Some of the things they do could cause a person to get hurt, expelled, arrested... possibly deported. To put it another way, don't try this at home.
Joking, and fond memories of another controversial animated show aside, please. Nowhere in the manga is sexual abuse or sexual contact with a minor in anyway glorified, promoted, or encouraged. Contact is shown, I grant you, but it is never done so maliciously against the minor party. In fact, I put it to you that American comic books in general contain much more graphic and "illegal" content than the four volumes and uncompiled chapters of KnJ published to date. If lolicon encourages child abuse, then books like Captain America volume 5, #25 encourages murder and assassination of patriots and heroes. The moral outrage should be equal, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't get why people are all "OMG, KnJ is pure smut" when right now you have School Days airing which contains multiple instances of minors engaging in full-on intercourse (never explicitly shown of course), and of course the infamous Moetan, which is blatantly sexual with the constant crotch shots of two high school girls who have physically preteen bodies. How that (mostly) gets on air, and this commercial spot doesn't is far beyond me. Of course it's all great promotion for the likely uncensored DVDs. |
My, you are on form today! So why are these episodes so "unairable", when the other titles are not?
Could it be that none of then are the story of an 8 year old girl trying to get her male teacher to have sex with her? Even if it was being aired at 3 AM I doubt any broadcast facility would be so bold as to air that. What's even more stomach churning to me is the fact that there are people who would enjoy looking at anything remotely like it, let alone the thing itself. I sincerely hope none of it ever leaves the shores of Japan,.... ever.  |
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angel_lover
Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:55 am |
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| Mohawk52 wrote: | | What's even more stomach churning to me is the fact that there are people who would enjoy looking at anything remotely like it |
Apologies if I make your stomach churn then, I won't take it as a personal insult though as we're all supposed to play nicely here.
You know which way I swing when it comes to moe and related topics (hint: see username) and I know that it's unlikely anyone is going to change their minds on this so any sort of rational debate is always out of the question. But just out of curiosity, could one of the moe-haters explain exactly why it is that it's OK for anime (and other artforms) to depict murder, rape, torture, assault, abduction, theft, and any number of other illegal and harmful activities, but it's totally beyond the pale to depict a precocious preteen girl who acts out her crush on her teacher? |
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Unholy_Nny
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:22 am |
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| Neverwhere wrote: | What worries me most about the OVA was how easily I confused the character designs for older characters from other shows -- does anyone else think Rin looks like Nagi from Hayate no Gokuto? Her friends look like other, older girls too -- admittedly still loli-fied, like from Lucky Star (and part of the preview for the next episode makes them look like the cast of He is my Master). Is it more disturbing that older characters look like children, or that we accept children acting like adults because we're used to adults being designed like children?
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Numero uno: Nagi is pretty child like, and I don't think she looks any older than 13. In fact, Hayate references that he must be pretty liked by children. (Completely oblivious to the fact that the girl(s) has/have a crush on him)
Dos: I think Lucky Star is more chibi than "loli"
Tres: I love He Is My Master, but the only thing "loli" about any of it are the characters Mitsuki and Karin, but neither of them get any fanservice applied. Aside from the maid outfits, which actually look more cute than sexual on either of them. (Still a bit disturbing the one time Karin dresses like that...)
Either way, Nymphet looks disturbing, IMO. I'm better off just avoiding it.
OH! And the Negima! characters are 14. Pretty fsked up if you think about it that way, because normally people ignore it. Plus, do you know how much Eva porn there is? They're 14 too. Sick.
EDIT: lol, I forgot Izumi and Anna from He Is My Master are also 14. *looks at his figurines* I have just disturbed myself...
I also have that Strawberry Marshmellow calender Right Stuf sent me for free, I found some of the images disturbing so I used a sharpie to edit it =D *Had a friend add a skirt to the month with the girl in swim suit*
EDIT #2: Haha, my mind is fuzzy this morning. Re-read your post. Yeah, that's just completely wrong. 8 year olds shouldn't be looking like that. I still think it's wrong for some of the 14 year old characters in other series to appear older than they are. Or act older, for that matter. If you weren't told the girls in Negima! were 14 I would highly doubt you'd think of them as that age. Same for the characters from Evangelion. |
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Zablac
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:34 am |
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See, I don't get some people. If you don't like it, then don't watch it or read about it, JUST IGNORE IT! Nobody is MAKING you watch or pay attention to this at all. Stop complaining about something that isn't even real in the first place and get on with your lives. If you hate it that much then don't assosiate with people who like it, like me, either than.
Peronsally, I think that if you actually get disturbed by this stuff for some reason, like the poster above me, you have some problems that you need to work out with yourself lol.
It makes wonder if Rizelmine and Mahoromatic had people complaining this much about them when they were coming out. Great animes that happen to have lots of loli fanservice, which is hilarious at times.
Edit: Also, you guys have to stop comparing animes like Hayate no Gotoku and Lucky Star, who simply have loli characters and no real loli fanservice to Kodomo no Jikan. Come up with something more thought out already... |
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Unholy_Nny
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:57 am |
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| Zablac wrote: |
Edit: Also, you guys have to stop comparing animes like Hayate no Gotoku and Lucky Star, who simply have loli characters and no real loli fanservice to Kodomo no Jikan. Come up with something more thought out already... |
But He is My Master and Negima! do have fanservice. And while they may not look it, they are at an age where that is disturbing. (Not that I don't read it)
Plus, ya'know, people can say whatever they want instead of ignoring it for two reasons. #1: Freedom of speech. #2: It's the internet. Unless it breaks the ANN TOS, they can do whatever they want.
But, also on that topic. Why can't PETA just leave fur wearers and meat eaters alone? Why must they bug us because we milk cows? Why do so many people protest the war, even when they don't know any soldiers? They're not involved, they should just ignore it. Why should people ignore anything they dislike, instead of expressing their opinion about it? Why don't YOU ignore the people expressing their opinions instead of worrying about them doing it? Well, because they can, so can you. Just a thought for you, but go ahead and think whatever way you want. You can even go ahead and complain that I typed too much and you didn't feel like reading it all. Or complain that I brought up completely unrelated topics to compare it too. Or complain because you just don't like my screen name. You're free to do it, if you want. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:58 am |
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| I see the lolicon apologist enforcement squad has already descended upon this thread to bully and shout down anyone who dares raise an objection to this material. |
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Neverwhere
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:17 pm |
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| Zablac wrote: |
Edit: Also, you guys have to stop comparing animes like Hayate no Gotoku and Lucky Star, who simply have loli characters and no real loli fanservice to Kodomo no Jikan. Come up with something more thought out already... |
I certainly wasn't. There is no comparison at all, I never said the shows were the same. I said character designs, which affect the show, but not the content of it. Sheeeeesh.
But if you think there isn't any loli fanservice you're not paying attention. Fanservice doesn't necessarily mean something sexual anyway -- Keroro Gunso is full of in-jokes and nerdy fanservice designed to make the viewer happy.
Bleaugh. I knew I should have kept quiet and watched the thread meltdown from a distance. :/ |
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mastertr
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:38 pm |
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| jetz wrote: | | Is it bad to be curious about this show? I'm not a fan of ecchi (Lolis are okay) but I just wanna see why Nymphet is so popular/notorious. |
I agree lol. That's the main reason that I am waiting for it to get subbed and watch it; the publicity. If it didn't stir up so much controversy and get so popular, I probably would have no interest to watch it; but I do want to see what all the fuss is about. |
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Richard J.
 Subscriber
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 2931
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | I see the lolicon apologist enforcement squad has already descended upon this thread to bully and shout down anyone who dares raise an objection to this material. |
Zac, are you implying that people who like lolicon shouldn't defend their views? As far as I'm aware, the rules here allow for reasonable debate of various anime/manga related issues and this is clearly an issue for some people.
So, unless it breaks down into a back and forth that consists of "you're a pedo!" and "you're a fascist!" type flames, I think both sides have the right and privilege of expressing themselves. (Although we all know nothing will be decided and it will breakdown eventually.)
I know from reading your comments numerous times that you take this issue very seriously. (As do other regulars to such debates.) However, regardless of your own stance on it, you must understand and accept that others disagree and that they get to say as much. Although it doesn't help any cause to act like a bully or try to shout down others, one side or the other usually takes this tactic at some point in this cyclical and unending debate on whether or not moral outrage is justified over lolicon/moe/whatever.
So can't we all just try to act like civilized machines rather than a bunch of insane smart monkies?  |
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DmonHiro
Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:42 pm |
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And, here we go for round two (thousand) of this pointless debate. In the red corner we have the loli-lovers, who welcome any new addition to the loli fanservice world. In the blue corner, we have the anti-lolis, who think that loli-fanserice hurts actual children.
Who will win this match? Well......NOBODY!! Who's right? Well, neither really but I'm going to side with the loli-lovers, beeing one myself. I can not understand how or why people associate anime with real life. Most of the stuff done in anime would get you arrested, hurt or killed in the real world, thus the reason normal people DON'T DO stuff they see in the anime. In my case, this is even stronger in loli's. I can't STAND children/ |
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cyberbeing
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:49 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | I see the lolicon apologist enforcement squad has already descended upon this thread to bully and shout down anyone who dares raise an objection to this material. |
Whoever wrote the News Post and stressed the OVA was Unairable was pretty much encouraging a controversial debate to happen. ANN seems to have made clear that they disapprove of this anime/manga. |
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Bahamut God
Joined: 10 May 2002
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:59 pm |
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| cyberbeing wrote: | | Zac wrote: | | I see the lolicon apologist enforcement squad has already descended upon this thread to bully and shout down anyone who dares raise an objection to this material. |
Whoever wrote the News Post and stressed the OVA was Unairable was pretty much encouraging a controversial debate to happen. ANN seems to have made clear that they disapprove of this anime/manga. |
The Unairable was a quote from the website I think. Seems like it is the website trying to drum up controversy.
This looks trailer looks like a ploy from "to catch a predator" to me. |
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Neverwhere
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:59 pm |
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| cyberbeing wrote: | | Zac wrote: | | I see the lolicon apologist enforcement squad has already descended upon this thread to bully and shout down anyone who dares raise an objection to this material. |
Whoever wrote the News Post and stressed the OVA was Unairable was pretty much encouraging a controversial debate to happen. ANN seems to have made clear that they disapprove of this anime/manga. |
The actual Japanese promotional website said it was unairable, ANN was merely quoting the source material. :/
| Quote: | | In the red corner we have the loli-lovers, who welcome any new addition to the loli fanservice world. In the blue corner, we have the anti-lolis, who think that loli-fanserice hurts actual children. |
I had hoped my first post would have established that I am neither one of those things, but since people just loooooooooooooooove to label everything in black and white terms, I guess I'm just doomed to be misunderstood. Whatever!
*goes away from this hot mess to eat birthday cake* |
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Gacktx
Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:01 pm |
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| This is Madness!! |
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Absurd Hero
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Atlanta, GA, US
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:05 pm |
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Ugh.
I'd put the cutoff date at 14, myself. I don't see the appeal of "sexy" 8-year-olds. |
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