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Captain-Hair
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:58 pm |
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| ikillchicken wrote: | | Quote: | | On an interesting side-note, I just finished reading Frankenstein in English class. For anyone here that wants to understand my views, try reading it. |
As far as I know, Frankenstein didn't want to bang little kids. |
Lol!!! This just caused me to burst out laughing. |
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Psycho 101
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 5227
Location: In the Grumpmobile with Grumpyman fighting crime one pot of coffee at a time.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:22 pm |
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| Quote: | Where are you coming from?
How can you restore a child's innocence? Right or wrong, adults sare perceived as not having that child-like innicense to lose.
It is wrong to take something from someone without their concent & actually, if you knew half what you thought you did on the subject, most authorities feel rape is less about having sex & more about having power over the victim-it's an act of violence, not sex.
My mom & sister-in-law were minors. They fall into that special defenseless bracket. I was 22. Most people would ask why I didn't kick him in the nuts or why didn't I divorce him, etc. I had a client come in not long ago who had the crap beat out of her by her boyfriend. but she didn't press charges. Women have various emotional issues when their abuser is their lover & some have self-image issues so they fall for the wrong guy all the time. |
So an adult can't be innocent? Adults can be perceived as whatever the bloody hell you want but RAPE IS RAPE. Rape of anyone of any age is just as bad as another end of story. A friend of mine was bloody well raped and beaten. You think she wasn't as terrified as a damn child would be huh? You think as she's being hit over and over and over til her throat and face were crushed in she wasn't as scared as a child would have been? Any rape is disgusting and none are better or worse then another. They're all equally disgusting. How about the rape of an elderly? Is that worse or better then a child in your book? How about the rape of a mentally handicapped person? Where does that stack up? You start saying one form is worse then another you're starting down a road to where you'll put one person over another because you think it's more wrong to rape person B over person A. You can't restore a child's innocence anymore then you can and adults or elderly or whoever's. Just because you're younger or older DOES NOT mean you're any less "innocent." Considering your own experience I'd think you'd understand that. I agree with you rape is horrible and that many women have issues about leaving a molester/wife beater. I also agree the pro loli people in it for the sexual gratification should consider what it's like to be a parent. But I do not agree with your attempt it seems to say how one form of rape is worse then another. Everyone is innocent until they're forced into something like this against their will. If that's not your goal then please explain your comments on it because that's the perception I got from them.
Btw, does anyone even remember the page the last post on the actual subject was?
edit---removed unappropriate language myself.
Last edited by Psycho 101 on Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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-gecko-
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 282
Location: Near Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:45 pm |
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I'm not sure it is worth it to wade through all of this off topic debate, but I did leave my last post hanging so I will make some closure to that.
As defined by wiki, KnJ does sexualize children, so it falls under that definition of lolicon, but not in a hentai (arousing) way. I can't see myself being aroused by this story. I consider myself in the majority of healthy males, so I don't see this story causing lolicon behavior (Japanese def). I can understand the feelings of some of the forum members here who abhor all loli material; I have my own kids and could not for a moment imagine the circumtances that would play out if something sexual happened to one of them. I know that they don't fit the mold of the chara presented in KnJ.
I have an extremely fanservice laden anime called Popotan. I happened to find out it was made from a game. This was a while back before I came to find out what h-games were all about. Having found pictures from the Popotan game, I was shocked at the hentai lolicon content.
I want to see how KnJ will be presented to a TV audience (albiet late night) from what's in the manga. I will continue to read the manga to see how that ends up; there's more to it that what this whole turned into pedo/lolicon debate is making it out to be. |
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CCSYueh
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1913
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:59 pm |
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| CCSYueh wrote: | | CCSYueh wrote: |
You know what?
Most ADULTS consider other ADULTS can make up their own mind about whether they want to have sex or not. That's why there's not that much compassion for adults in the porn industry. Once one reaches the age of consent one can say "sure, boff my brains out"
Can you comprehend a child cannot make that decision? Ask an 8 yr old what they want for dinner for a week & you'll probably get a very unbalanced diet, even to the point of mostly sugar (cake/candy/ice cream). A child cannot understand the consequences to using drugs, smoking, or having sex.
Non-consensual sex is a whole other issue from adult vs underage.. Don't even get me going on NO MEANS NO.
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As I said NON-CONSENTUAL SEX AKA RAPE is a different matter. NO MEANS NO when my mother was raped & so embarrased she dropped out of 8th grade, when my sister in law was raped when she was 15 & gave the child up for adoption & when my husband, too drunk to care forced himself on my one night after we had a fight & I cried the whole time he was doing me.
Idiot.
NO MEANS NO. ALWAYS & ALWAYS & ALWAYS
However, children, animals & the mentally ill hold a special place in society, We had a huge scandal here when a gal who'd been in a coma for yrs in an institution wound up pregnant thanks ot one of the attendants taking advantage of her. Adults who are incapacitated equal children & are also deemed unable to consent. THe elderly can also be deemed defenseless & requiring extra protection or they can be deemed a threat to others(as when they run people over due to diminished driving abilities)People get all crazy over sex registrants as child molestors so they freak over how many little dots are in their neighborhood when they visit the law enforcement sites, but realistically most of those dots aren't child molestors--they're rapists of adults, maybe the ones who rape little old ladies in their homes which, as I said, is also usually viewed as someone defenseless.
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Kindly read everything I wrote before you you climb up on your high horse
I'm sorry. Maybe that's part of what's wrong with society--that too many adults don't recognize children, animals, etc |
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ichiro3923
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 167
Location: hiding in your closet watching you
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:19 pm |
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| CCSYueh wrote: |
Doesn't mean I want people expressing the opinion you are that a child under 10 can consent to sex anywhere near any child I care for.
If you believe believe you're a victim, that your needs & pain are more inmportant than an innocent child's, you need to talk to a counselor
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You sure are hellbent on putting words in my mouth to say that I support real-live child rape or real-life situations of a child giving consent to have intercourse.
I've already said that I do not support real-live child porn: the real-live sexual positions, the real-live consent of an underage person, the real-live rape. If it is fiction (ie. One's thought and speech) I have no right to say that person cannot do whatever he/she thinks as long as no one is harmed.
I also underline a sentence that you said as shown above. Again, for the umpteenth time: Since when is an actual child's life at stake? Somehow, you keep equating fiction with real-live child rape/porn.
I supported it because no child was involved (or else it wouldn't be anime) and they have the right to view it.
| CCSYueh wrote: | | Can you guarantee you or other lolis into the depiction of children under 10 won't someday also cross that line? |
Using that argument is a bold accusation to be throwing around. So let me get this straight, you gave an example about David Westerfield and now you use that exmple as a justification of paranoia, that we are all future David Westerfields, and have the nerve to ask us to prove our innocence when you have not shown any credible source, no data, that proves that anyone who watches lolicon will somehow be manipulated by lolicon material making one lose common sense and reasoning and therefore commit these crimes just because a few who commited crimes happened to be associated with this group. Way to show your ignorance and prejudice.
I do not appreciate you using your argument that I and others are potential criminals, so drop it. These blanket statements are insulting, and is not strengthening your argument. |
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Psycho 101
Subscriber
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 5227
Location: In the Grumpmobile with Grumpyman fighting crime one pot of coffee at a time.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:34 pm |
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| CCSYueh wrote: | | CCSYueh wrote: | | CCSYueh wrote: |
You know what?
Most ADULTS consider other ADULTS can make up their own mind about whether they want to have sex or not. That's why there's not that much compassion for adults in the porn industry. Once one reaches the age of consent one can say "sure, boff my brains out"
Can you comprehend a child cannot make that decision? Ask an 8 yr old what they want for dinner for a week & you'll probably get a very unbalanced diet, even to the point of mostly sugar (cake/candy/ice cream). A child cannot understand the consequences to using drugs, smoking, or having sex.
Non-consensual sex is a whole other issue from adult vs underage.. Don't even get me going on NO MEANS NO.
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As I said NON-CONSENTUAL SEX AKA RAPE is a different matter. NO MEANS NO when my mother was raped & so embarrased she dropped out of 8th grade, when my sister in law was raped when she was 15 & gave the child up for adoption & when my husband, too drunk to care forced himself on my one night after we had a fight & I cried the whole time he was doing me.
Idiot.
NO MEANS NO. ALWAYS & ALWAYS & ALWAYS
However, children, animals & the mentally ill hold a special place in society, We had a huge scandal here when a gal who'd been in a coma for yrs in an institution wound up pregnant thanks ot one of the attendants taking advantage of her. Adults who are incapacitated equal children & are also deemed unable to consent. THe elderly can also be deemed defenseless & requiring extra protection or they can be deemed a threat to others(as when they run people over due to diminished driving abilities)People get all crazy over sex registrants as child molestors so they freak over how many little dots are in their neighborhood when they visit the law enforcement sites, but realistically most of those dots aren't child molestors--they're rapists of adults, maybe the ones who rape little old ladies in their homes which, as I said, is also usually viewed as someone defenseless.
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Kindly read everything I wrote before you you climb up on your high horse
I'm sorry. Maybe that's part of what's wrong with society--that too many adults don't recognize children, animals, etc |
I did read all that you wrote and I can assure you I "recognize" children and animals etc etc. Now in your own bolded text you wrote children, animals, etc etc hold a special place. This to me just further demonstrates that fact you seem to be able to almost rate forms of rape in terms of how one is worse then another. Kids is worse then elderly but animals are worse then kids etc etc. To me this shows you'd feel worse if subject A was raped over subject B and expect a harsher sentence. To me this is bogus because rape is rape end of story. If I'm wrong then feel free to actually elaborate your view. |
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Captain-Hair
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:35 pm |
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Well this thread has fallen apart even more now. O_O Went from Kodomo no Jikan, to a debate about lolicon, to a debate about pedophilia, to a talk about rape.
Heres the bottom line in my opinion: (Regarding Lolicon at least)
Theres really no reason to either side, pro-lolicon or anti-loicon to argue. Nothing either side says will every change the mind of the other side.
The aint-lolicon side just needs to ignore the pro-lolicon side. All this thread has done is exactly what the pro-lolicon side doesn't want, draw attention even more to the whole lolicon subject/debate. All it takes is one pissed of anti-lolicon person to post something against the pro-lolicon crowd, and they'll come out to defend what they like... just like what happened here.
Also, the pro-lolicon crowd needs to realize that threads like these make them look bad. If they want to stop having these debates and stuff, they need to stop making it so damn controversial. No matter how they defend it, nothing they do will change the minds of the anti-lolicon crowd, it'll just draw more attention to the lolicon issue, and that in the long run will make you look bad.
I think that each side should just ignore each other. Neither side will gain anything from all the debates and crap with the other side. The fact is, that the more attention thats drawn to lolicon, the more it'll end negatively affect both sides. Just let the lolicons look at what then want. Who knows, maybe it'll actually keep a few of them from looking at real child or even making their own *shudder.* (Notice I only said "a few," so people of the pro-loli crowd, please don't reply to this like I'm addressing all of you this way.) |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 4812
Location: Tana Village
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:37 pm |
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| Locking this because it's degenerated to flamewars and circular arguments much like every other thread on the subject. |
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