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Unholy_Nny
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 463
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 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:10 pm |
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Fsk! I typed up a whole crap-load of stuff and accidentally closed out the window. It was pretty good, too...
To put it bluntly, Zac was referring to whatever-his-name-was who said to ignore it if you don't like it. Also, it seems people keep TRYING to turn this into a huge debate that will end as a flame war. (DmonHiro, I'm looking at you)
Plus, yeah, it is in fact advertised as an "unairable" episode cut from the upcoming TV series.
| Quote: | | This looks trailer looks like a ploy from "to catch a predator" to me. |
I love that show. I also love when the people see the dude and instantly know they're on it because they watch the show themselves.
Anyone else pick up on the fact that within 24 hours the decoy agrees to meet up with the target?
On that topic, more people should watch Hard Candy. That movie is *awesome*. |
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Dargonxtc
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4154
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:10 pm |
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| Richard J. wrote: | | Zac wrote: | | I see the lolicon apologist enforcement squad has already descended upon this thread to bully and shout down anyone who dares raise an objection to this material. |
Zac, are you implying that people who like lolicon shouldn't defend their views? As far as I'm aware, the rules here allow for reasonable debate of various anime/manga related issues and this is clearly an issue for some people. |
I didn't take his comment as that people aren't allowed to debate or defend their views. I took it more as a statement that one group will come on here and try to silence all other opposing opinion. Which I must say usually happens. Which side is usually the oppressor? I think that depends on which of the hundreds of threads you look at. 
Anyway I finally got the trailer to play, I was having trouble for some reason. So like, do all three of them have hots for the teacher? I would say the most disturbing part of the trailer was white cream getting Lewinskied off his finger. But off course they wouldn't show all of the bad parts in the trailer, other wise no one would buy it. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:21 pm |
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| Richard J. wrote: | | Zac, are you implying that people who like lolicon shouldn't defend their views? As far as I'm aware, the rules here allow for reasonable debate of various anime/manga related issues and this is clearly an issue for some people. |
No. I was talking about how the instant this news post went up we had a bunch of people come in and seemingly in anticipation of there even being someone who says "welp this is gross" they started angrily defending it without having been attacked in the first place. Without anyone raising any objections, within the first few posts we have "they're not real children!! NOT REAL" and "this doesn't objectify children!!!! I AM NOT A PEDO" which we usually don't get until someone's said something negative about the show.
The one guy who claimed that you can't have a problem with this unless you also have a problem with everything that's ever been considered objectionable by anyone in the history of forever is my favorite, I think.
Oh, I like the guy who said that anyone who has a problem with this does so because they think somehow this is "harming actual children". What can I do other than laugh at something that stupid?
| Quote: | | Whoever wrote the News Post and stressed the OVA was Unairable was pretty much encouraging a controversial debate to happen. ANN seems to have made clear that they disapprove of this anime/manga. |
"ANN" has no official stance on anything at all. I personally have spoken out about my problem with lolicon material in my opinion column and on these forums. My personal opinion is not equivalent to Anime News Network's stance on anything. |
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-gecko-
Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 282
Location: Near Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:44 pm |
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| Dargonxtc wrote: |
Anyway I finally got the trailer to play, I was having trouble for some reason. So like, do all three of them have hots for the teacher? I would say the most disturbing part of the trailer was white cream getting Lewinskied off his finger. But off course they wouldn't show all of the bad parts in the trailer, other wise no one would buy it. |
The "cream" was actually a piece of rice taken off Rin's face by her brother whom she ate the rice off the finger of.
I've seen some of the manga and the full OVA episode. It seems to me that this is about some kids who have some deep misconseptions about love and what sex is all about. That's where the comedy is. Throw in some dark concepts and you have an awsome story. I hope the TV anime can convey this.
The whole "naked" scene portions involve a bath and even have Rin's onii-chan talking to the kids there and that's just the point of the scene; he sees them as just kids, even if the one crushing on him has teenage-size breasts.
My point to all this is that I think, although the use of such young chara may be controversial, the subject matter bears fruit and should be taken in by anyone who cares.
EDIT: My mistake; after reading some more of the manga, I realize that I mistook Rin's guardian as her brother.
Last edited by -gecko- on Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Richard J.
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 2931
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:48 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | No. I was talking about how the instant this news post went up we had a bunch of people come in and seemingly in anticipation of there even being someone who says "welp this is gross" they started angrily defending it without having been attacked in the first place. Without anyone raising any objections, within the first few posts we have "they're not real children!! NOT REAL" and "this doesn't objectify children!!!! I AM NOT A PEDO" which we usually don't get until someone's said something negative about the show. |
Considering the very first post in this thread, I'm not really surprised that people started making such comments. GATSU did imply that the material was bad enough as to make the animators want to commit suicide. Though he did indicate it was a joke (although with him, I'm not sure that matters) the tone of the thread began as "bad Kodomo, bad." Plus, given the fact that this series has apparently become something of a flagship if you will for the loliocon debate, it's not surprising that the moment it's brought up, people come in with guns blazing.
Don't misundertand me though. I don't like people on the side I generally identify with aggressively attacking other posters any more than I appreciate such behavior from the other side.
Forgive me if I misinterpreted your post. Given some of your past statements, I felt it could have been intended that way, but I accept that I may have jumped to a false conclusion. |
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Zablac
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:22 pm |
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| Unholy_Nny wrote: |
But, also on that topic. Why can't PETA just leave fur wearers and meat eaters alone? Why must they bug us because we milk cows? Why do so many people protest the war, even when they don't know any soldiers? They're not involved, they should just ignore it. Why should people ignore anything they dislike, instead of expressing their opinion about it? Why don't YOU ignore the people expressing their opinions instead of worrying about them doing it? Well, because they can, so can you. Just a thought for you, but go ahead and think whatever way you want. You can even go ahead and complain that I typed too much and you didn't feel like reading it all. Or complain that I brought up completely unrelated topics to compare it too. Or complain because you just don't like my screen name. You're free to do it, if you want. |
I can't believe you just compared people complaining about lolicon to people protesting the Iraq war... Come on, thats just ridiculous.
Also, I want to actually talk about this anime, but since so many people come here and complain, I have to sift all those posts. So its kinda hard to ignore it when its getting in the way of something I want to do. Other people who don't ike this however, can just see the thread, and simply skip it and go onto the next one.
I'm just saying, I visit all kinds of sites on the internet. And If i see something I dislike or disagree with, I usually just pass over it. That is, unless the person has a well structured convincing argument for what the post is about. I'll admit that I've changed my mind about things in the past that I've thought bad of because of someone presenting their point a view in a way that made me seriously think about and research the subject even more. |
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bayoab
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:36 pm |
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| DmonHiro wrote: | | And, here we go for round two (thousand) of this pointless debate. In the red corner we have the loli-lovers, who welcome any new addition to the loli fanservice world. In the blue corner, we have the anti-lolis, who think that loli-fanserice hurts actual children. |
And then there was those of us who don't really care in either direction as long as those who watch this will at least admit to what they are and that Japan doesn't resort to only producing this. Do not claim "the children aren't shown in euphemisms and innuendo" and do not claim "I am not a pedophile" if you are enjoying the fanservice. (There is sexual innuendo involving one of the girls in one of the first 10 seconds.) |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
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Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 3075
Location: Philly, PA; stupid Yankees.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:43 pm |
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| Dargonxtc wrote: | | Anyway I finally got the trailer to play, I was having trouble for some reason. So like, do all three of them have hots for the teacher? |
No, they don't all have hots for the teacher, just Rin. In fact, Kuro pretty much hates his guts. |
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ikillchicken
Subscriber
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2517
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:49 pm |
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| Gacktx wrote: | | This is Madness!! |
This...is...Sparta!!!!!!!!!!!
...
sorry.
Seriously though, this issue needs to be taken out back and given the old yeller treatment.
I in no way approve of Nymphet. I don't get on board with the whole "If people like this its up to them." arguement. Im gonna speak up and say what I think about this. However I did that months ago. The same is true of pretty much everything you can say about this topic. Its been beaten into the ground. Theres really no point in complaining about or defending it anymore. Its been done. |
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Viga_of_stars
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 1232
Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:15 pm |
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| Korb wrote: |
Here we go again, indeed! Rin Kokonoe, Kuro Kagami, and Mimi Usa are not people. They're not even human, they're cartoons. Some of the things they do could cause a person to get hurt, expelled, arrested... possibly deported. To put it another way, don't try this at home.
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That's the disclaimer they would use if this ever got licensed. 
Anyway it didn't seem ike anything whoa except for the bathroom scene. Otherwise I don't see much problem because I was always a person that couldn't read between the lines. In other words a visual double entendre wouldn't catch my mind at all. Unless they show the teacher screwing the rin girl there nothing unairable about it and that term was used as a marketing ploy.
I do have to admit putting words like unairable and uncut really makes people want to buy a DVD. Thus a smart move in selling.
Last edited by Viga_of_stars on Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ichiro3923
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 167
Location: hiding in your closet watching you
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:18 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | Richard J. wrote: | | Zac, are you implying that people who like lolicon shouldn't defend their views? As far as I'm aware, the rules here allow for reasonable debate of various anime/manga related issues and this is clearly an issue for some people. |
No. I was talking about how the instant this news post went up we had a bunch of people come in and seemingly in anticipation of there even being someone who says "welp this is gross" they started angrily defending it without having been attacked in the first place. Without anyone raising any objections, within the first few posts we have "they're not real children!! NOT REAL" and "this doesn't objectify children!!!! I AM NOT A PEDO" which we usually don't get until someone's said something negative about the show.
The one guy who claimed that you can't have a problem with this unless you also have a problem with everything that's ever been considered objectionable by anyone in the history of forever is my favorite, I think.
Oh, I like the guy who said that anyone who has a problem with this does so because they think somehow this is "harming actual children". What can I do other than laugh at something that stupid?
| Quote: | | Whoever wrote the News Post and stressed the OVA was Unairable was pretty much encouraging a controversial debate to happen. ANN seems to have made clear that they disapprove of this anime/manga. |
"ANN" has no official stance on anything at all. I personally have spoken out about my problem with lolicon material in my opinion column and on these forums. My personal opinion is not equivalent to Anime News Network's stance on anything. |
Don't pretend that people are passionately defending loli due to a mere dissaggreement: It has gone beyond the point where there have been countless hate posts (including past threads) such as "you're a pedo/sicko if you like this piece of crap."
These type of posts don't give any reason or politeness but just hateful comments. So people should expect that others will get upset |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:16 pm |
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| ichiro3923 wrote: |
Don't pretend that people are passionately defending loli due to a mere dissaggreement: It has gone beyond the point where there have been countless hate posts (including past threads) such as "you're a pedo/sicko if you like this piece of crap."
These type of posts don't give any reason or politeness but just hateful comments. So people should expect that others will get upset |
Now now, let's be fair.
One side says: "You're a sick pedo if you like this crap."
The other side says: "You're a vicious censorship nazi if you say you don't like it."
It goes on from there. |
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Samurai-with-glasses
Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 628
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:44 pm |
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| Neverwhere wrote: | I know that.  She's very young, but still a teenager. Rin and her friends are much younger, in 3rd grade. (It is 3rd, isn't it?) |
Third grade...about 9 or 10 years old right?
I see your point. It's three years difference but I guess with children that age that's a noticeable difference. Though please don't use that smiley, it's one of those "You Are An Idiot" kind of smilies I wish people would stop using, or at least forums stop putting it up on easy reach. It's a flame bait even when the poster means nothing in term of insult; which by the way I don't think you are meaning to insult me or anything.
| Neverwhere wrote: | | *small sigh* The 4-koma is is a comedy, with lots of parody/satire elements, so I guess you could call them parody loli designs. That doesn't negate the fact that they're all still loli-fied. Where, exactly, did I say they were realistic? NOTHING about loli is realistic, that's rather the point. :/ |
So your point is that loli is not realistic, then that loli -- being an unrealistic trend/concept/design in any case -- is wrong for having characters ranging from 9-18 looking similar?
Although I admit I see where you're coming from. Sometimes...nah, makes that almost all the time...gratuitous sexualization annoys me very much as well, and Nymphet's concept can easily put people off considering the characters' age. I mean, some people like me just read Negima for the stories, not the bear panties that are wasting panel space. And they don't exactly jerk off to them.
_____________________
P.S. This thread is amusing. Already the anti-loli crowd [not you, Neverwhere] is in full gear armed to the teeth with Disith steam-muskets. Sweet. Now waiting for the Loliwarriors to join the battle -- although some people apparently thought they are already in it. Don't worry, these are just mere advance guards!
Onward, chivalry! Onward, men in leather clothing on very tall horses with big e-penises and righteous attitudes! For the children! For Freedom of Speech (and stuff)! Down with the pedos! Down with the Nazis!
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james039
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:45 pm |
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I think it's natural to be concerned about anime becoming more lolicon oriented, because it further reflects on everyone who is an "anime" fan. How would you feel if you told someone you know about your passion for anime, and they just recoil "get away from me you sick pedo!!!", I don't think ANYONE here wants it to come to that, but with this show, having an 8 year old trying to seduce her school teacher, and throwing in all the usual fanservice, but instead involving characters who are supposed to be young children, it can be used as an example against anime as a whole.
Please try to think of how this type of material will be viewed *outside* of the anime fanbase, and understand how some of us are very concerned about our passion being tarred with a very dark stigma, regardless of how "tame" this particular story appears to be compared to other fan-created lolicon material.
I hope this serves to at least justify some of the apparent flaming here, that we aren't just a bunch of facists trying to censor your world. |
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Zablac
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:47 pm |
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| bayoab wrote: | | DmonHiro wrote: | | And, here we go for round two (thousand) of this pointless debate. In the red corner we have the loli-lovers, who welcome any new addition to the loli fanservice world. In the blue corner, we have the anti-lolis, who think that loli-fanserice hurts actual children. |
And then there was those of us who don't really care in either direction as long as those who watch this will at least admit to what they are and that Japan doesn't resort to only producing this. Do not claim "the children aren't shown in euphemisms and innuendo" and do not claim "I am not a pedophile" if you are enjoying the fanservice. (There is sexual innuendo involving one of the girls in one of the first 10 seconds.) |
When did someone actually say that theres no innuendo in this? I don't remember reading anyone saying this, but I may have passed over it, I'm not sure. If someone did say this, then they obviously don't even know what Kodomo no Jikan is, and shouldn't be posting in this thread anyway.
And I love lolicon. Call me a pedophile all you want, I don't care. I know that I don't like real life little girls, so you can call me whatever you want. Since it hasn't and won't hurt anyone, I'll be a lolicon forever I guess.
| james039 wrote: | I think it's natural to be concerned about anime becoming more lolicon oriented, because it further reflects on everyone who is an "anime" fan. How would you feel if you told someone you know about your passion for anime, and they just recoil "get away from me you sick pedo!!!", I don't think ANYONE here wants it to come to that, but with this show, having an 8 year old trying to seduce her school teacher, and throwing in all the usual fanservice, but instead involving characters who are supposed to be young children, it can be used as an example against anime as a whole.
Please try to think of how this type of material will be viewed *outside* of the anime fanbase, and understand how some of us are very concerned about our passion being tarred with a very dark stigma, regardless of how "tame" this particular story appears to be compared to other fan-created lolicon material.
I hope this serves to at least justify some of the apparent flaming here, that we aren't just a bunch of facists trying to censor your world. |
You act as if this is the first anime that has had this kind of material ever. Like its somehow going to corrupt the rest of the anime and the anime world as we know it is going to end because of it. Again, I bring up past animes like Mahoromatic and Rizelmine. Both are years old, and one has huge amounts of nudity and loli fanservice, and the other just has large amounts of nudity .
Different types of anime will be made just as they've made for years. There's going to be animes like this, just as there has been before. For every one of these kind of animes though, theres SO many of animes of different genres. This isn't anything new, I don't understand why people are like, "OMFG, How dare they make something like this all of a sudden and try to spring it on is?!?!!" |
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