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Richard J.
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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 Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:43 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | Explanation of the realities of Reviewing with a side order of irritation. |
I've wondered for a while why random volume reviews would pop up, now I understand. Yeesh, that's kind of a stupid way to do things sending out screener copies with apparently no regard for sequencing. It would have made a lot more sense to send volume 2 if they weren't going to send volume 1 first since 2 has the funniest episode of the whole franchise on it.
Ah, Geneon. They pick great shows but they can't market them worth a damn.
By the by Zac, that "side order of irritation" line isn't intended as a dig or an insult, just my way of including the fact that you're annoyed with a few people on the thread in my hyper summerized version of your post.
As for the review:
I've given a lot of thought to how I wanted to respond to this review for several reasons. First, I saw all of Rozen Maiden fansubbed (and watched those subs numerous times) and for someone who virtually worships English dubs that is saying something. I've bought the DVD as they've come out and I like this series a lot in both languages, which is extremely unusual for me.
Second, I knew before I even brought up the whole review that it was written by Mr. Kimlinger and that at some point he would call the series premise and/or the fans of it "creepy." He does this with every show that has moe/loli elements in it. I get it Carl, you don't like the genre and you feel high enough on the totem poll to pass judgement on other fans.
Third, clearly I don't agree with much of anything that was written, but he has a right to his opinion just as I have a right to mine. I might as well argue with bricks rather than try to convince him he's wrong.
So I'm just going end this long, somewhat angry post with these words: I consider myself very fortunate to have watched this series long before this review was typed up. I'm glad to be a person who can enjoy a show for what it is and not hate it for not being Mushishi or Cowboy Bebop or some other pinacle of anime quality. And I have never once heard Sugintou described as annoying before and I am frankly perplexed by that comment more than any other in the review. |
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Aromatic Grass
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:53 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | So please do me the courtesy of using reasonable logic to explain your viewpoint on this issue. |
Just random curiosity. I figured that it wasn't really your choice to randomly go out and buy something to try to confuse us. But the idea of "checking up on a series" makes sense to me. |
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ImperialPanda
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:15 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | Posted this in the Claymore thread, posting it here too:
Okay folks, here's how this works.
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Posting individual DVDs reviews sporadicly defeats the purpose of reviewing individual DVDs. If releases are reviewed on a per DVD basis, then the first one is typically used to judge whether one would want to start viewing a particular series, while the remainder serves as a guidance on how future DVDs compare to previous releases. Inidividual DVD reviews that doesn't cover all the releases can't perform these functions.
If you can't review each DVD but still is able to "check in" from time to time, then it makes more sense to write series reviews. This eliminates the inconsistency and any possible confusion regarding the review's coverage of the series. And you can always tag on individual DVD features/extras as notes at the end of the review.
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Also, there is some self-contradiction in your post.
| Quote: | | We review what companies send us. Sometimes we'll get volume 2 but not volume 1. Sometimes we'll get volumes 5,6,7,8 and 9 but not 1-4. |
| Quote: | | Generally, if a critic is reviewing a later volume of something, it means that they've read or watched the previous volumes... |
| Quote: | | ...even if the critic has seen all previous volumes and is just reviewing the newest one. |
So, why doesn't the reviewer post reviews of the previous releases if the reviewer saw them? If you're gonna do individual DVD reviews, I'm gonna contend you can't be lazy like this. |
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child of Lilith
Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Egg of Lilith ( the black moon)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:32 pm |
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The review was a tad harsh, but the reviewer did in the end say it was ok. I agree with some of what the reviewer said about the pace sing. It was rather obvious they rushed to fit things in at the end. I also really hated how they changed Souseiseki story line. I know they did it to keep her around but they really messed up the character for me the way they went about it. The only real problem I had with the review is that the reviewer let too much of his personal bias filter threw. If anyone is interested in Rosen Maiden then I suggest you still give it a look, don’t let this review change your mind. It really is better then the review makes it sound, although the manga is still better in my opinion.  |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:31 pm |
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| ImperialPanda wrote: |
Posting individual DVDs reviews sporadicly defeats the purpose of reviewing individual DVDs. If releases are reviewed on a per DVD basis, then the first one is typically used to judge whether one would want to start viewing a particular series, while the remainder serves as a guidance on how future DVDs compare to previous releases. Inidividual DVD reviews that doesn't cover all the releases can't perform these functions. |
I'm not really following you here, your language isn't very clear. So not reviewing every DVD in a series defeats the purpose of doing reviews in the first place? Wha? I don't agree with that at all.
| Quote: |
If you can't review each DVD but still is able to "check in" from time to time, then it makes more sense to write series reviews. This eliminates the inconsistency and any possible confusion regarding the review's coverage of the series. And you can always tag on individual DVD features/extras as notes at the end of the review. |
I don't really think it's "confusing" at all, nor does it "make more sense" to just only review the first volume and the final volume, with the final volume being a series review rather than focusing on that volume. We want to call attention to ongoing series but can't review every single volume all of the time. Picking up a volume or two in the middle reminds people that the show is still coming out and gives a progress report of sorts about how it's going.
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Also, there is some self-contradiction in your post.
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No, there isn't. Let me explain this to you.
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So, why doesn't the reviewer post reviews of the previous releases if the reviewer saw them? If you're gonna do individual DVD reviews, I'm gonna contend you can't be lazy like this. |
There are a few reasons why a critic may not go back and review all the previous volumes.
Here's how it often works: Company A sends me volume 3 of something. I send that to the critic, who rents the first two volumes and watches them, in order to properly review volume 3. His volume 3 review then encompasses everything he's seen so far; he's saying what he has to say about the show in his volume 3 review. Going back and writing 800 words that say the same basic thing for the first two volumes is redundant. Yes, he might have slightly different things to say about volume 1, but frankly, the critic has other titles he has to move on to.
There's also an issue of content freshness. If a show is up to volume 4 and we never received earlier volumes, I'm going to have the critic review volume 4 because that's the new one, that's the one people care about. I'm not going to have a critic waste his time going back to review 4 volumes in a row of something - not only will those 4 volumes eat up his entire weekly quota, meaning he won't get to write about any series other than that, I'm not really interested in having that many reviews at once of something. Nobody cares after a certain point.
You have to remember that this isn't a fan-run operation where my critics do it for free, just for the love of it, like someone would on a blog or a non-professional site. They love it, yes, and I know they enjoy what they do, but they have a quota they have to meet and a system wherein they have to select which titles they want to do, and they don't always get to do every title they want because someone else may have selected it first. We work with what screeners we get sent and also what my critics are able to buy themselves or rent. That does not encompass every single release from every company, so the result is a patchwork of coverage.
The whole "fresh content" thing is more important than you probably think; we post one review per day here (or at least, that's the goal). If I have someone who's catching up with a series, watching volumes 1-3 before watching volume 4, that's going to eat up 4 days worth of review content with one show. Nobody's going to care or respond to the reviews after volume one. I can cover the other volumes later, for sure, but I have to have something else the next day and the next so people remain interested and keep reading the new reviews.
You seem to value total consistency; I can understand from your perspective how that might seem like it's the most important thing. As the executive editor of this site, I value diversity and freshness of content over the ideal of "consistency". I have readers who want fresh, new, interesting content; total consistency (in terms of making sure we review every single volume of something) is an afterthought. I'd rather my kitchen be a little messy and serve amazing food than to have a spotless kitchen that produces food nobody cares to eat. See what I mean? |
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the Rancorous
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:49 pm |
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| Richard J. wrote: | | And I have never once heard Sugintou described as annoying before and I am frankly perplexed by that comment more than any other in the review. |
same here, there were characters that I found annoying, but Suigintou was never one of them. She played her part as the villain fairly. If any character fit the description this reveiw gave Sugintou, it would be Hina.
Overall, I thought this season was pretty mediocre. It had good points, but its weak points hindered it too much. However, I don't feel like I wasted time, it did its job in the entertainment area.
And for the record, a couple parts dealing with Jun and Shinku danced a little on the creepy line, but I don't feel that it ever crossed it. |
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ImperialPanda
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:09 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | I'm not really following you here, your language isn't very clear. |
[Posting individual DVDs reviews sporadically(typo)] -> [defeats the purpose of] -> [reviewing individual DVDs.]
The main point was if you can't review all DVDs, then instead of doing (or labeling them as) individual DVD reviews, series reviews with DVD specific footnotes might be a better option.
| Zac wrote: | | I don't really think it's "confusing" at all, nor does it "make more sense" to just only review the first volume and the final volume, with the final volume being a series review rather than focusing on that volume. We want to call attention to ongoing series but can't review every single volume all of the time. Picking up a volume or two in the middle reminds people that the show is still coming out and gives a progress report of sorts about how it's going. |
But from the posts I guess some other people find it confusing. When you label a review as "Rozen Maiden DVD 3," then I think it's natural for people to think that's a review of Rozen Maiden DVD 3, and might not have taken material from previous or future releases into consideration. However, if you do a series review, then it more accurately reflects the contents of the review. (And a side point here, when you read the review of RM, it's really not a review of RM DVD 3, but rather a review of RM as a whole. I'm going to term this lack of "focus" as used below.)
When I say series review, I don't necessarily mean review something after it's over. It could certainly be a running review that can be updated whenever you have the time.
| Quote: | | There are a few reasons why a critic may not go back and review all the previous volumes. |
I'll agree to that. But again if you don't have the time to review all the DVDs individually then instead of posting individual DVD reviews I think it's better to post a running series review.
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I'm mostly just talking about a title change. But this way also gives you the option of updating a review as time goes on and to make the review database more consistent. I don't really want to talk about competition ( ... lol) but imo animeondvd has a much more complete and focused reservoir of DVD reviews. Doing running series reviews would be more suitable for ann I think. And of course differentiates.
Last edited by ImperialPanda on Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:32 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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ultrapostman
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 164
Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles?
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:11 pm |
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| Zac wrote: |
We review what companies send us. To say that Geneon's track record for sending out screeners has been "sporadic" and often "bizarre" would be pretty generous.
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Now that ADV has taken over most of Geneon, they'll be the ones sending you guys dvds right? if so, then I guess something good came out of the semi-merger after all. |
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Unholy_Nny
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 622
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:07 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | *long reply to ImperialPanda goes here* |
Ah, I see. Well, thanks for clearing that up, I have a better understanding of what goes on now. With your first post about it I didn't really get it all, but the second post more than filled the holes. But, yeah, thanks for explaining.
Seems ImperialPanda hasn't learned the same lessons I did, though >_> |
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 9956
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:14 pm |
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| ImperialPanda wrote: | | The main point was if you can't review all DVDs, then instead of doing (or labeling them as) individual DVD reviews, series reviews with DVD specific footnotes might be a better option. |
And we do sometimes do that, especially when we've been behind on a series for one reason or another and have several volumes together, or when it wouldn't make sense to do them individually, as I have recently been doing with rereleases like 3x3 Eyes and El Hazard. Keep in mind, though, that our site has always focused more on individual volume reviews, so whole series or multi-volume reviews are normally the exception.
| Quote: | When I say series review, I don't necessarily mean review something after it's over. It could certainly be a running review that can be updated whenever you have the time.
....
But again if you don't have the time to review all the DVDs individually then instead of posting individual DVD reviews I think it's better to post a running series review. |
I get where you're coming from, but what you're describing is really more of a blog or elaborate thread about a series than an actual review. Those styles just aren't our thing.
| Quote: | | . . .but imo animeondvd has a much more complete and focused reservoir of DVD reviews. Doing running series reviews would be more suitable for ann I think. And of course differentiates. |
Why should we need to differentiate ourselves from them? Besides, I think our better layout already differentiates us.  (And no, that's not just bias talking. I genuinely find their front pages to be so cluttered that it's an eyesore.)
| ultrapostman wrote: |
Now that ADV has taken over most of Geneon, they'll be the ones sending you guys dvds right? if so, then I guess something good came out of the semi-merger after all. |
That remains to be seen. ADV is normally very good about sending out the first DVD of series (often well in advance!) but is much less reliable about sending out later ones. |
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daedelus
 Collector Extraordinaire
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 741
Location: Texas City, TX (ajd: 6/11/05)
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:35 am |
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Whew! This thread sure exploded since yesterday. It feels like I'm late to the party even though the review was posted less than 2 days ago.
Well I just watched vol 3 earlier today. I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it a lot. I found the dramatic scenes, especially the parts where Shinku warmed up to Jun, quite moving. The prim and proper doll has a soft side after all.
As far as Jun being an a-hole. I felt that the times he exploded in rage or surprise to be quite comical. He always seemed to come through when it counted, though. I especially liked the banter between him and Suiseseki. "Puny human!"
I can see how lots of people say that Hina was annoying. I felt she added that extra dash of cuteness to the show. One mystery to me is the fact that in all 3 volumes so far, Geneon hasn't listed Hina's english VA in the credits. What's up with that? (I know it's Sherry Lynn. When I hear her and Reba West, I can't help but think of the Tachikomas  )
Then there's the adorable Nori. I couldn't help but feel she got the short end of the stick. I did find myself sympathizing with her more often than Jun. At least Jun seems to appreciate her more
Let's hope her would-be-suitor has better luck in the next season.
Volume 4 out next month. Can't wait! |
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eyesopen0791
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 108
Location: A Sleepy Town in California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:56 am |
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| Richard J. wrote: | | I love Rozen Maiden and am angry about the negative review grade. |
So, Richard, why do you like RZ? I guess it sounds now more interesting to me now with some people disagreeing with the low grade. I just want to read your opinions on its story and compare them to the reviewer. The artwork and story sound already interesting to me. |
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Unholy_Nny
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 622
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:14 pm |
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| eyesopen0791 wrote: | | Richard J. wrote: | | I love Rozen Maiden and am angry about the negative review grade. |
So, Richard, why do you like RZ? I guess it sounds now more interesting to me now with some people disagreeing with the low grade. I just want to read your opinions on its story and compare them to the reviewer. The artwork and story sound already interesting to me. |
Lemme fill ya' in. "C" is not a negative score. The show deserves B- at best.
You've got this kid, right? He's a complete shut-in, hates ever body, has social issues, etc. He's also extremely mean and abusive(AKA "a-hole") towards his sister who does his every bidding.
His main hobby is rather odd. Purchasing items off the internet, looking them over, then sending them back for a refund. (Or was it sending them back during the pay period so it doesn't have to pay? I forget...)
Well, he gets this doll, see? And it's... alive! So, social shut-in that demands constant service from his sister now owns a Gothic Lolita-styled doll that is prim and proper, plus demands constant service from him...
Well, it turns out there are more of these dolls. And they want to defeat each other in order to claim the prize of being the daughter of their creator. (Was it that? Something along those lines...) So you've got some fighting stuff in there. But, yeah, dolls fighting. Actually can be cooler than it sounds. Plus there's some OK but not too excellent character development done with helping the kid socialize, plus some creepy crush stuff going on with the doll later in the series.
But for the most part it's a comedy with action and drama elements neatly blended in.
Oh, plus the character designs are pretty and the music is good.
Over all it's a pretty good series, nice for a watch but not something EVERYONE should rush out to buy. I really enjoyed it, personally. |
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Richard J.
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:46 pm |
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| eyesopen0791 wrote: | | So, Richard, why do you like RZ? I guess it sounds now more interesting to me now with some people disagreeing with the low grade. I just want to read your opinions on its story and compare them to the reviewer. The artwork and story sound already interesting to me. |
I'm PM'ing you a fairly long personal take on the series. I hope it provides you with answers. |
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eyesopen0791
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 108
Location: A Sleepy Town in California
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:55 pm |
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| Unholy_Nny wrote: | | good stuff on RZ story |
Eh, I am super picky about watching anything. I usually don’t watch something graded below a B. However, I make exceptions.
Figuring out if I should watch RZ:
Unlikable main character: Will watch for payoff of him changing into a nicer guy, which seems like the story. Check.
Main character having an odd hobby: Likes oddness in a character. Check.
A pretty doll: I love dolls, so a doll as a character is worth looking into.
Unlikable doll character: See comment on main character.
Dolls fighting: O-kay... That sounds lame, but might be cool per your reassurance.
All in all, for me a series worthy enough to rent before thinking about buying.
| Richard J. wrote: | | eyesopen0791 wrote: | | So, Richard, why do you like RZ? I guess it sounds now more interesting to me now with some people disagreeing with the low grade. I just want to read your opinions on its story and compare them to the reviewer. The artwork and story sound already interesting to me. |
I'm PM'ing you a fairly long personal take on the series. I hope it provides you with answers. |
That's sweet, Richard, but don't PM me!
I wanted it here to leave it on the forums for the record for anyone to read much at any time later. If you have posted your thoughts about your love of this series somewhere earlier, please point it out to me.
BTW, happy belated birthday, wasn't it a day or so ago? Wishing you all happiness and fulfillment of all your dreams.  |
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