Forum - View topicNEWS: ADV's Acquisition of 2nd Kanon Series Confirmed at AWA
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Richard J. Subscriber Posts: 2931 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Too bad I've got too thin a skin to completely ignore digs. 
Anyway, regardless of whether you get angry or just roll your eyes, at the end of the day, the only opinion that matters is the one you make with your wallet. If you buy the anime you love, you can honestly say you've done your part to support the kind of anime you like and to heck with what anyone else thinks about it. |
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Nom_Anor Posts: 229 |
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| ~uguu.
I don't know whether to rejoice it has been licensed or to cry for my wallet. Although I really found the Makoto and Mai arcs the best, it is still definitely in my top 10(maybe top 5) list of my favorite series. Except the last episode. It can burn to death. *sigh* at least it's ADV, so it won't be too horribly priced. |
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| Ahasuerus Posts: 24 Location: Pacific NW |
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Richard J, I agree with you, and Taso's(etc) quote. But I've found that turning the other cheek just gives you TWO red ones  I see a larger problem in the bigger picture, and the macro beyond that. If you'll indulge me, I'll explain in a bit.
But first, Taso said:
I don't care when people get vocal or express opinions, that's what responsible free speech is all about. But when they turn to INSULTING those others who enjoy whatever-this-genre-really-is, and calling them perverts, pedophiles, and so on, they cross the line from "differing opinions" into "bullying" and so deserve an appropriate response. Those people deserve to be put down, as they're deliberately being offensive; while we (or those who enjoy Kanon as an example) are doing nothing to deserve the attacks. So yeah, those ones should AT LEAST be ridiculed. They should just keep their mouths shut wrt the pedo labelling. Payback's a bitch, no? On a different note, I can't get "Last Regrets" out of my head either Since this post is so heavy, I'll lighten it a bit by sharing a youtube video of the LONG VERSION (6:07) of the OP with sample clips behind it; it's sooo gorgeous 
Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/ Wasn't that great? 
Okay, back to business: Personally, I'm happy to give opposing views a listen, because I like hearing both sides, as I learn from it. The reviews here at ANN are great for that. The difference is in the taking of legitimate criticism into the realm of personal attacks, and those are whom I mean, wherever they occur. Honestly, I don't care if someone doesn't like Kanon or Air, but if someone were to call me a pervert or pedo for liking them on the street, I'd punch them out, literally. Then see what they'd have to say  Hey, they slandered and provoked me *shrug*
Here's something to consider though: You know how the general public is so easily influenced by "key words"... such as "anime", "lolita", "hentai" ,"perverts", "pedophile", "sex offenders", "vigilantism" and so on? People who don't know about anime are the ones who control The Power here in the States, right? And they love to string simple words together... and leap to their ignorant conclusions... and lump "strange" people together... and wrest control over what they perceive as a "problem"... and then berate, censor, condemn, and shut down. That's what hand-wringers do. By not correcting these misconceptions we are only enabling anime's critics to leap to some dangerous conclusions, about ALL of us. Don't think so? Ask ten random strangers what they think about anime. Tell them that you enjoy it, observe their reaction, and see if they don't harbor some serious illusions already. These are what we need to fix in order for our hobby to be better accepted, tolerated, and easier for us to access. Case in point: The current cancellation/delay of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai due to what the media assume happened. I'm sure that sensitivity was a big issue (understandably so), but from what interpretations I saw of the press conference, the handwringers will be out shortly. I'm surprised they haven't popped up over here yet But since this case is about Violence and not Sex, they'll probably let it slide over here 
Sorry to get so heavy, but this has been bugging me for awhile now, and I feel are an important couple of points. By allowing and perpetuating all these negative stereotypical images we are doing ourselves a disservice, especially with regard to future releases and our own distributors' and media's willingness to deliver the goods to us. I really love the artform and have been very absorbent AND observant, and these are simply the problems I see. Thanks for your (hoped for) kind indulgence... Now I really have to start "Air"  |
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Akari-chan Posts: 22 Location: Shoujo Otaku |
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I know that your post was aimed at Zac, however I wanted to share my opinions. I am a female anime fan and I like moe. For example ToHeart is one of my favorite anime as should be obvious from my username and avatar. Also, Air is one of my favorite series that I am currently collecting and I am looking forward to collecting Kanon. I would love it if ADV licensed Lucky Star which is currently my favorite anime. I don't see anything wrong with moe characters and there are a lot of them that I like. Konomi Yuzuhara from ToHeart2 is a good example. When moe crosses the boundaries and converges with lolicon then I hesitate. I don't have any real problems with lolicon or people that like it. It's just that I am not really a fan of it. Basically what I am saying is to each their own. Sorry, if this post was too long I'm still trying to wind down from being at AWA all day. |
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| Ctimene's LoverSubscriber Posts: 2130 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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| Why haven't they licensed the first one yet? I've never played the games (the original versions for obvious reasons). Kanon's first version was done by Toei, who also did the Air and Clannad Movies. Is this a contract thing with Kyoto Animation, Key, and Toei? That is, Toei will do some versions while Kyoto Animation does the other? All three series have had adaptations done by both studios. | ||||||||||
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| Conan-san Posts: 766 |
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| If this voltron's Lagann, I swear to god I'l-! | ||||||||||
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| Zalis116 Moderator  Posts: 4812 Location: Tana Village |
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| dormcat Encyclopedia Editor  Posts: 7336 Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Quoted for truth. Here in Taiwan, fans of the original Kanon (2002) had been asking Proware to license it for a long time. Once KyoAni announced that they would remake Kanon, people told Proware (which has a good record of licensing titles animated by KyoAni e.g. FMP:TSR, Air, Haruhi) "now you can forget about Toei's 'dark history' completely."  |
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| crh1985 Posts: 7 |
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| i hope they release the 1 sesson with the 2006 remake as a box set or Limited Edition dvds putting 2-3 episodes of the original with the dvd of the remake
but just having this, i'm happy |
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Ongaku_no_tenshiSubscriber Posts: 181 Location: Virginia |
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I want to say thank you to Ahasuerus and Akari-chan for their responses. Yes, my initial question was for Zac, but I like it more when I hear the thoughts of more fellow fans. Thanks guys.
I understand your point. But the only thing I don't care about is the completely insistent use of the term "moe" and all of it's negative attachments to show like this. I'm a guy and I personally like the To Heart series. I brought the entire series as it was released, including the collector's box. I've never seen Air (besides the first episode shown on ADV's site) but I am going to buy the Kanon series dvds as they are released. Because of that (owning To Heart and planning to buy Kanon), does that make me a "moe" pervert? No, I don't think so. I like to Heart for it's good emotional content, same reason I like Kare Kano. To Heart, Kanon, and Kare Kano all share a lot of the same themes found in real life. Things like love, loss, achievements, disappointments, and dealing with life, as well as, death. They are just good examples of slice of life/romantic comedies. These are the reason's, I personally, watch and buy these shows. I just don't like the unfair stigma these shows tend to carry. And I think this whole "moe boom" thing in Japan is totally absurd. Mainly because American pick up on anything new or in the "now" that comes out of Japan, especially if it deals with anime or manga. They (the Japanese anime & manga marketing heads) need to be more aware of the fact that almost everything they market and sell, then export over here to the U.S. makes serious ripples that can change the face of our anime & manga market. It is of my opinion that this whole "moe boom" in Japan has created an undeserved miasma of perverseness around slice of life shows that has pretty much taken over here as well with American anime fans like it has with Japanese fans. Which pretty much makes it bad for those fans out there that like these shows for their meaningful content rather than the fact they have "moe" looking characters and/or want these characters to be their "little sisters", or whatever other crap people want to associate with it. I hardly EVER post on forums, but I do read them. And I only post if I have something important to say. This has been on shoulders for quites some time now and it's good to take the weight off. And as you can probably tell, I'm more than a little aggravated and sick of hearing about "moe" this and "moe" that. "What about the story?" is my question. I believe fans should have a right to like the shows that they like without having the shows, and they themselves, be pigeonholed into any one category. Especially a degrading category such as "moe" and/or "lolicon degenerates". Come on people. Dear God, just enjoy your anime and appreciate them for their content. The same way another human being should be appreciated for and judged by, their character and content. And as Zac pointed out, it's ok not to like a show someone else likes. everyone has that right as an individual. It's only when you ridicule and pigeonhole someone by labeling them for their likes and dislikes based on the ideas of current trends that you put yourself in the wrong. Just watch watch what you like to watch and leave alone the stuff you don't. I'm sorry for going on and on. My heart is now unburdened. Edit: To Zac and anyone else who would like to sound off: "Would these shows still be considered "moe" if this whole"moe boom" had never started in Japan?" And also: "Would shows like Tenchi Muyo, Maho Tsukai Tai!, Di Gi Charat, Comic Party, Card Captor Sakura, or dare I say, even Saikano be considered "moe" these days thanks to the current wave that is taking over Japan's/America's anime industry and the term being thrown around and applied to whatever show people see fit?" I don't think they are. But due to the fickle nature of trends (and us human beings for that matter), who knows. Stay well everyone. |
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| rg4619 Posts: 160 |
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To be fair, these shows generally lack the storytelling and character depth of most romantic/slice-of-life dramas. I've yet to find something that hasn't been done better in different genres (such as a good shoujo drama) and/or media (film, novel, Asian TV). Additionally, it doesn't help that these concepts are often rife with cliches and character archetypes that serve no purpose except to pander. For the above reasons, I understand why seasoned viewers may dislike To Heart or Kanon (and thus dismiss all fans as being purely entranced by moé and not the story content). Nonetheless, they must realize that not everyone is as unimpressed or jaded as they are.
imo, the stigma isn't necessarily unfair. These shows/original concepts (adult games....funnily enough, the art team behind ONE/Kanon/AIR snuck in "RORIKON" store signs in some of their game backgrounds) were made with lolicon appeal in mind, so the branding is partially deserved. It's just that we can't make generalizations about each individual viewer since people have different reasons for enjoying a show. Believe it or not, there are those who genuinely enjoy the character drama of Kanon in spite of the moé (which may or may not affect their enjoyment. Not all fans are sexually attracted to the heroines, even if attraction is an intention of the creators). Personally, I don't find the drama of Kanon to be anything special (and I don't enjoy To Heart anymore after viewing the new DVDs, although I found it half-decent years ago). However, the simplicity works well in creating a nostalgic/fairytale-like atmosphere for the series.
Completely agreed.
Kanon is just dripping with so-called moé appeal, so I doubt it'd be exempt from criticism (target painted on its back). AIR takes things even further, to the point of being overdone imo. OTOH, To Heart and some other shows might not stand out quite as much. |
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| Ongaku_no_tenshiSubscriber Posts: 181 Location: Virginia |
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You make a lot of good points. And I agree. To Heart does have very little story telling (none actually). It's purely character based. But I still found the series quite relaxing and I'm not sorry I invested in ti. And I also agree that Kanon isn't all that special as well, but I do feel it is a pretty good series and worth buying. Just to be clear, I'm not really trying to defend these shows (which does not include Air, I have never watched that series) in the same light that an extremist fan of this genre would. I could honestly care less if someone else disliked a particular show that I may like. I take no offense to that at all because that would be their opinion and I would respect that. These are simply my opinions. I do realize that these series originate from hentai games. And you are right. The stigma is partially deserved. Thank you for bringing that up. But fans (in general) should not have to rocks thrown at them for liking the shows in the genre. And the reason I brought that up is because, as I said before, I hardly ever post in forums but I do read them and I'm constantly seeing people being ridiculed and ostracized for liking whatever show they like (provided it's not anything extreme like Moetan or Tsukuyomi - Moon Phase or anything of the like that's blatantly sexualized on purpose). These were just some things I wanted to get off my chest and I thank you for your response. |
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| FireChick Posts: 399 Location: United States |
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| Edit: deleted due to being stupid Last edited by FireChick on Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| tasogarenootome Posts: 262 |
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Quoted for truth! ^-^ But damnit, how many more copies of Scrapped Princess novels do I gotta buy to get my opinion validated?! And as for Ahasuerus, I enjoyed your post (it had nothing to do with Last Regrets, I swear ) I understand what you were trying to say the first time around and you are right. My experience has ironically been opposite - if I put a so-called moe anime as a least fave or something - but either way it's not right and I guess that's just how stupid people can be on teh interwebs.
I also liked what you had to say rg and ongaku, I think it helped me to understand and appreciate series like Kanon, Air, and To Heart and why they are so popular a little better. Man this thread is so fluffy and happy...plushies and kitties and fecal rainbows for all! |
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| Paploo Posts: 556 |
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Because this one's more recent, is self-contained [ie- a remake, so you don't need to see Toei's first], and they just licensed AIR from the same company, so probably had an option or othre means of making licensing it easier? As to why you can have Kyoto Animation and Toei each make their own versions, well, they're both Key properties- Key can give one comany a license to make a movie version, another a TV version. They also probably had it set so that if they wanted to, after Toei's rights expired for making new episodes of a given show, they could give it to another producer. As an example, there's been a Saban Spiderman show, an MTV produced one, and now one coming to another network from another production company this fall. All while another company made/was making the movies. Who has rights to what all depends on what the company signs for a contract [which is why even though MTV made a new SM series, Disney/Saban could keep selling Spiderman-1994animated DVD's, and why Toei's probably still able to sell or license dvd's of their version of Kanon] Oh, and a moe Tenchi Muyo would just be wrong 0_o [though I'm guessing the new Pretty Sammy show is along those lines, but I'm guessing it doesn't have drunken bar fights with Ryoko in it] |
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