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Hey, Answerman: DOOMSDAY EDITION!


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TheVok



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 613
Location: North York, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Another great logo! I say stick with the homemade ones and forget about reader-submitted designs ....
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panties



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 93
Location: LazyTown

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:23 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
1) Selling fanart would in no way impede on any sales of the original creator. This is said with the assumption that the character design comes from an established anime or manga. Without fame from a anime or manga, the character itself won't generate enough interest to be a huge impact on the success of the fanart. The only possible exception would be exceptionally popular personal mascots, i.e. Plenair. However as a general rule I don't think many self-respecting artists would sell copies of the mascot of another artist.

This probably wasn't the best of characters to use an example. While Pleinair is the personal mascot of Takehito Harada, she's also an actual character from Disgaea. Someone like Habanero-tan would have been a better example of a popular "mascot" character in this context, since she hasn’t appeared in any official anime/manga/video game/what-have-you. (At least as far as I know.)


Last edited by panties on Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rankothefiremage



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 417
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:26 pm Reply with quote
I watch fan subs and most any show i watch beyond the halfway point i buy when it gets to R1 release. I never understood bootleggers, why pay for an fake lower quality version? fans who first find an anime via fansubs should always support their shows best they can.


And who ever picks up Geneon's dvd releases at least for partially released shows like rozen and higurashi, that it's tsri.


-Gabe, honorable fansub watcher
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2616
Location: Out.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:28 pm Reply with quote
I was so weired out by the banner.

But on to bussiness. Frankly, the death of Genon does nothing on my soul. I think if they had dropped their prices they would have been a lot better off. The number of Genon titles vs. other anime compaines is crazy- I have less than 10 Genon shows. (complete- a few straggler dvds from the Suncoast going out of bussiness sale)

I guess now i'll go out and pick up Season 2 of Kyo kara moah.
But frankly, i'm not disappointed in them leaving- I expected that. And I think (answering next weeks question) Bandi Visual better take a look at this- prices will fudge you over.

It seems like they caught a hint- I've seen KKM for less than their $30 norm. Which is awesome.

I think the biggest and scariest problem is the manga rats. I'd rather see bookstores crack down on them.

That rabbit is scary.
The flake makes me wonder- since the company is kinda dying does that mean the liscences either get picked up or get tossed back out there? Does that mean we could see brand new dubs of the shows we've bought- should they choose to do so?

thats all i gotta say- nice work.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12434

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:30 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, listen to Zack. I still wish I got Baoh from Animeigo. [Yeah, I know I should be pining for KOR, too, but am still holding out that ADV will pick it up like they did with Macross. And no, I don't care if I get called a "traitor", 'cus the same people who are willing to pre-order their shows for $2-$300 for their shows won't pay 1/4 of it for a Bandai Visual release, while I'm at least consistent about decent episode counts for my money.] I just got Adventures of the Mini-Goddess, but am probably gonna hold out on FY, in hopes that someone else sells it cheaper. They already have other OOP anime like CCS and Sherlock Hound, though, so you'll have to scour E-bay for those...

Quote:
It would take an incredible shift in the market to bring down a company like Viz.


I'm guessing whenever Naruto ends would be the shift. Rolling Eyes
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:37 pm Reply with quote
britannicamoore wrote:
I was so weired out by the banner.

But on to bussiness. Frankly, the death of Genon does nothing on my soul. I think if they had dropped their prices they would have been a lot better off. The number of Genon titles vs. other anime compaines is crazy- I have less than 10 Genon shows. (complete- a few straggler dvds from the Suncoast going out of bussiness sale)

I guess now i'll go out and pick up Season 2 of Kyo kara moah.
But frankly, i'm not disappointed in them leaving- I expected that. And I think (answering next weeks question) Bandi Visual better take a look at this- prices will fudge you over.

It seems like they caught a hint- I've seen KKM for less than their $30 norm. Which is awesome.

I think the biggest and scariest problem is the manga rats. I'd rather see bookstores crack down on them.

That rabbit is scary.
The flake makes me wonder- since the company is kinda dying does that mean the liscences either get picked up or get tossed back out there? Does that mean we could see brand new dubs of the shows we've bought- should they choose to do so?

thats all i gotta say- nice work.


You know, I hear a lot of people complaining about the prices of Geneon's DVDs, but isn't $29.98 the norm for most anime DVDs that have 4-5 episodes and decent extras? Am I missing something here? I mean, yeah, their box sets are ridiculous, but I never found their prices that unmanageable. I could always find most of their DVDs for less than $20 somewhere on the internet.

Most of my DVDs are from Geneon. While I'm really glad this happened just after I finished collecting Ergo Proxy, I'm still saddened by it and worried about the future of some series like Black Lagoon and Hellsing Ultimate. *sigh*
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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:38 pm Reply with quote
Yeeeeeeeep, those people who don't pay for anime aren't supporting the creators. Silly Japanese cable subscribers! (and don't give me that "but they are paying for anime" crap. We both know what I mean.)

Seriously, Answerman, get over yourself. Not all fansub viewers are uncontributing lazyass hogs. There are plenty who buy merchandise for anime that they would never have heard of without the fansubs. Obviously, when an anime gets licensed, there really isn't any excuse (but most fansubbers are somewhat ethical about that), but honestly? Almost all of the dolls, posters, trinkets, artbooks, stationery and imported manga that's sitting on my shelf would not be there if I HAD NEVER WATCHED THE SHOW.

As for last weeks Answerfans... hm. We can say that it's insulting/degrading/whatever to the creator, but there are a looooot of mangaka out there who like and feel supported by doujinshi, and... well, it's not like they're under the impression that Comicket doesn't involve the exchange of money. And honestly? If I want a certain fandom artwork in a certain style, I feel like it'd be more criminal for me to print out someone's artwork and hang it on my wall than to pay them to send me a print.
There's also the fact that, um, THERE ARE PROFESSIONAL MANGAKA WHO ALSO WRITE AND SELL DOUJINSHI OF OTHER MANGAKA'S WORKS. Sure, it's not all of them, but come on.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9519
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:39 pm Reply with quote
panties wrote:
This probably wasn't the best of characters to use an example.

minakichan wrote:
There's also the fact that, um, THERE ARE PROFESSIONAL MANGAKA WHO ALSO WRITE AND SELL DOUJINSHI OF OTHER MANGAKA'S WORKS. Sure, it's not all of them, but come on.

Well, what do you expect from those four replies that none of which has mentioned the word "dōjinshi" or "Comiket?" Rolling EyesWink
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rankothefiremage



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 417
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Cowboy Cadenza wrote:


You know, I hear a lot of people complaining about the prices of Geneon's DVDs, but isn't $29.98 the norm for most anime DVDs that have 4-5 episodes and decent extras? Am I missing something here? I mean, yeah, their box sets are ridiculous, but I never found their prices that unmanageable. I could always find most of their DVDs for less than $20 somewhere on the internet.

Most of my DVDs are from Geneon. While I'm really glad this happened just after I finished collecting Ergo Proxy, I'm still saddened by it and worried about the future of some series like Black Lagoon and Hellsing Ultimate. *sigh*


I agree with you, honestly if it is a good show 30 doesn't seem to bad, when i think of japanese anime prices it seems alot better. When i got gatekeepers 21 at 30$ and only needed to get 2 dvds where japanese fans had to pay almost twice that price and had to get 6 total dvds. R1 fans are lucky, damn lucky.




-Gabe
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Cowboy Cadenza



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 243
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:51 pm Reply with quote
minakichan wrote:
Yeeeeeeeep, those people who don't pay for anime aren't supporting the creators. Silly Japanese cable subscribers! (and don't give me that "but they are paying for anime" crap. We both know what I mean.)

Seriously, Answerman, get over yourself. Not all fansub viewers are uncontributing lazyass hogs. There are plenty who buy merchandise for anime that they would never have heard of without the fansubs. Obviously, when an anime gets licensed, there really isn't any excuse (but most fansubbers are somewhat ethical about that), but honestly? Almost all of the dolls, posters, trinkets, artbooks, stationery and imported manga that's sitting on my shelf would not be there if I HAD NEVER WATCHED THE SHOW.


Of course there are people like you and me who watch fansubs and also buy DVDs and merchandise. Those aren't the people that Answerman is referring to, clearly. I don't know if it's just that you have an optimistic view of people, but there are a frustratingly large number of people I've encountered who honestly cannot understand why I buy DVDs when I can just download something for free (I actually encountered one this evening). I've begun to just ignore them at this point. I even met one guy who felt bad about getting stuff for free, so he would buy cheaper bootlegs. When I pointed out that not one cent of his money was supporting anyone who was involved with the creation of the show, he said he didn't care and that as long as he was paying for it, it was okay. Granted, he was probably one of the most idiotic people I've ever met, but still.

Also, you claim that "most" fansubbers are "somewhat" ethical about not subbing licensed shows? While I can think of a couple subbers that do halt distribution of subs when a show is licensed, a vast majority continue right on with it. I know of several that only stop if FUNi and ADV are the licensor, because Bandai/Viz/Geneon wasn't doing anything to stop them. And almost every series that gets drop by a subber is picked up by another group that will finish the series.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2055

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:58 pm Reply with quote
I don't have too many disagreements with this particular article. I pretty much agree with the statement on artist/fan relationships and such (supporting fans are the only true fans). That said of course I've made it abundantly clear that I do think downloads/fansubs/etc probably provide more benefit to the industry than detriment.

As far as going after bootlegs and such, I'm all for going after those who are charging for anything, particularly if they are trying to pass it off as the legitimate product. So there ya go.
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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:04 am Reply with quote
Cowboy Cadenza wrote:
Of course there are people like you and me who watch fansubs and also buy DVDs and merchandise. Those aren't the people that Answerman is referring to, clearly. I don't know if it's just that you have an optimistic view of people, but there are a frustratingly large number of people I've encountered who honestly cannot understand why I buy DVDs when I can just download something for free (I actually encountered one this evening).


Hmm, I guess... but I mean, not to generalize the human race based off the people I know, but I know more people who do buy STUFF after watching fansubs than don't-- I mean, the hoardes and hoardes of fangirls buying Ouran plushies and Death Notes at conventions probably weren't buying Japanese Region DVDS-- and at any rate, there are probably tons of Japanese cable subscribers who are just mild fans who don't buy DVDs or toys (just like I'm not buying DVDs for Dancing With The Stars, even if I AM watching it legally), so it kind of balances? So, I really honestly believe that the amount of merchandise and the amount of profit to the Japanese anime industry increases with the existence of fansubs. As for the American industry (which I usually don't participate in anyways; I'd rather support the creators more than the licensors thanksmuch), I guess I'm not informed enough to say much, but the fact that they're actually somewhat-successfully selling a made-for-TV product without the actual TV part is already pretty ludicrous. If I paid $5 for every episode of anime I watched legally on cable when I go to a country that actually has anime on TV, I would be worse than broke.
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ikillchicken
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 6857
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:07 am Reply with quote
Okay,

sorry but I've again got to speak out in defense of the fansubbers.

Quote:
i think fansubs are what keep anime alive.


Now, If they meant that it keeps the industry alive. I totally agree with Zac. However, if were talking about Anime as a fandom, I must disagree. People underestimate the number of people who are into Anime who "buy" stuff only because its costs nothing. The statement thaat there would be no fans if there were no fansubs is untrue, but there would be much fewer fans. Now ofcourse, those fans wouldnt actually contribute anything to the industry, but there really is more to Anime than just the industry.

Zac wrote:
Only when you or your friend actually contribute to the artist's work are you "fans" in the real sense of the word.


Where do you get that definition? (This is a genuine question, not me implying that its untrue.) The definition I found of "fan" is an enthusiastic admirer of something. I don't think supporting something is actually included in the definition of a fan.

Finally,

flake wrote:
uh am i the only one who is happy geneon died because now i can get their shows for free online, seems like the real fans are the ones who win in this situation, not the suckers buyin dvds. rip geneon, long live anime!!!!


I completely agree that the mentality that someone who buys DVDs is a sucker is just stupid. People who do buy DVDs deserve our respect for spending their hard earned money to support the industry even though they don't have to. Not that I hold it against people who arent willing to do that. However feeling pride for not paying is just idiotic.

Thats said, I can't really blame people who download everything for feeling this way. From their point of view, it would be better if the industry here was nonexistant.

minakichan wrote:
Yeeeeeeeep, those people who don't pay for anime aren't supporting the creators. Silly Japanese cable subscribers! (and don't give me that "but they are paying for anime" crap. We both know what I mean.)


Thats a flawed comparison that people use to justify fansubs. Seriously, If you're gonna download, have the guts to admit that you do it because you arent willing to pay for something when you can get it for free. Though, I still think you should at least try to support the industry Im not gonna hold it against you of most of the time you're not willing to and I don't really think you should care about the people who would.

Also, I do agree that downloads can help in minor ways by creating way more fans. However, realistically these additional fans are really a small consolation even if they buy some merchandise if they don't support the actual industry at all.
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LilacShadow



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 165
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:21 am Reply with quote
I knew there would definitely be a question about Geneon. But I'm glad it was answered. I am less confused about the situation now. I went ahead and ordered the last 3 DVDs of Ergo Proxy to make sure I could get them. I was planning to wait until after Christmas to buy them, but I don't think that would've been a good decision. I also bought Last Quarter. I'd been thinking about getting that for a while, so I figured I should just go ahead and get that too. I sure as heck don't want to end up having to sell my arm or something to get those from E-bay.

I totally agree with Zac's reply to "if there are no fansubs, there are no fans!" I don't watch any fansubs, but I still consider myself an anime fan. If fansubs did somehow cease to exist, I'd still be an anime fan.

..Could I smack the flake upside the head a few times? I would like to do that.

Also, the bunny is cute. A bit odd-looking, but still cute.
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sabriyahm
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 279
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:30 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I think the biggest and scariest problem is the manga rats. I'd rather see bookstores crack down on them.


Manga rats ( and scantalations) may cut into manga sales but not nearly the way fansub downloaders cut into anime sales. Consider that Manga sells well. It is one of the few areas of publishing that is actually growing. It does better then anime because when all's said and done it's hard to bootleg it. People just don't like to read from their computer. And if you want to read something over and over you will probably need to buy it. Anime on the other hand can be viewed just as well through fansubs as actually buying it so piracy in that industry will always be more of a problem.
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