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ivorymoose
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 199
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 Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:29 pm |
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| technokiddo wrote: | | There has been so many cases of identical translation. Odex is horrible. In Singapore, there are stalls set up near public transport selling Anti-Odex t-shirt. Hopefully Odex "un-license" Haruhi. Please. |
Anti Odex T-Shirts? Is this true? I'm not in the country to witness this. Odex T-Shirts? This is getting serious.  |
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ivorymoose
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:51 pm |
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| minakichan wrote: |
Oh no, that's hardly the case at all! Translation is never an exact science, not even for languages that are very similar (English and Japanese are not). Particularly translating into English-- there are often several different ways of saying the same thing, and none is worse than the other. At the same time, translators might tweak and adapt to reflect a character's personality in the translation, or reword things to make them more natural in the English language. This is why fansubs and legit releases usually DON'T read the same at all. I'm thinking Odex did a rip job.
Honestly though? Yes, it's EXTREMELY hypocritical and immoral for Odex to do this, but as a consumer (although not of their products), why do I care? If they're not paying a translator, that's one less cost for them. I'm not going to be so unrealistic as to say that that'll decrease the product price, but still. Personally, I kind of like the idea of ripping off the fansubbers, as bad as that is-- I'm not going to say that fansubs are usually completely accurate, but they do tend to lack bad 90s slang that some of the legit companies think is cool to use. *prepares for an explosive comeback* |
I often hope that Odex would use the official US translation instead. There should only be 1 official English translation. I know the subtitles used in Singapore (both from Odex and Arts Central - TV station) are different from those used here.
Speaking of quality.........I own two sets of Trinity Blood (region 1 and 3). Trinity Blood is spelt wrongly on region 3 boxset 1. It is spelt "Trinty Blood" with an "i" missing. I am amused rather than upset because I cannot understand how such a mistake could be overlooked. This mistake is repeated on every page of cover of the boxset. 
I am actually defensive of Odex, they are the only legitimate distributor of anime DVDs and VCDs in Singapore. Singapore Fans bashing Odex should be honest with themselves. Do you think people who download free movies eventually buy them? How do you think illegal downloads are affecting Odex business? I am very forgiving of Odex even for strange mistakes like the one on the Trinity Blood. Given the business condition in Singapore, I'm not surprised the company is struggling for survival and they try to cut corners, they actually need fan support. I paid C$180 for 5 region 1 TB disks but the region 3 volume 1 ( with 3 disks) of TB only cost C$20+, there are 2 volumes of TB for region 3 but I only own volume 1. I assume that if volume 2 is released, it would cost the same as volume 1. Hence, region 3 TB boxset would not cost more than C$50. I can see that Odex is trying to cut cost for consumers. Would fans understand?????? |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 7336
Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:11 am |
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| ivorymoose wrote: | | I am actually defensive of Odex, they are the only legitimate distributor of anime DVDs and VCDs in Singapore. |
You don't think/know that a monopoly usually are too lazy to improve itself, do you? |
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Ryllharu
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:47 am |
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Despite the fact that it is possible for two people to translate in the exact same way, as zalas pointed out:
| Quote: | | Strato has a certain style of writing, and it's really hard to mimic his writing without either copying him or being him, let alone having the exact same line breaks and punctuation patterns. It would be different if it were pretty simple lines that were the same, but two of the duplicated lines according to the original forum posts are rather complex weavings of wordplay. |
a.f.k. is a very well known fansubbing group that has been around for a long time due to the high quality translations they output. It's not the wording alone, but also the typesetting. The linebreaks, pauses, all identical. That the lines are the same could possibly be tossed aside as coincidence. However, that the linebreaks and syntax are identical, and timed to the same frame (+- a few frames) leads to one conclusion.
Every translator (fansub or professional) has a unique style and the editing team that applies, times, and typesets that translation only makes the version more unique. There's always been comparisons in the fansub community on translation, typesetting, visual quality, etc. When AIR was being oversubbed by 7 different fansub groups, I found this comparison. Even with a series like AIR, that has considerably simpler Japanese than Suzumiya Haruhi has at times, you can see the different ways a line can be translated.
Despite being only a few screenshots, the evidence would give me beyond a reasonable doubt that Odex copied this work.
What needs to be done now is not legal action, as a.f.k. doesn't have much legal right in light of the original creators, but the story needs a lot more exposure than anime-only news sites and Odex's own forums. |
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Kibamaru
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 35
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:46 am |
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| ivorymoose wrote: |
I often hope that Odex would use the official US translation instead. There should only be 1 official English translation. I know the subtitles used in Singapore (both from Odex and Arts Central - TV station) are different from those used here.
Speaking of quality.........I own two sets of Trinity Blood (region 1 and 3). Trinity Blood is spelt wrongly on region 3 boxset 1. It is spelt "Trinty Blood" with an "i" missing. I am amused rather than upset because I cannot understand how such a mistake could be overlooked. This mistake is repeated on every page of cover of the boxset.
I am actually defensive of Odex, they are the only legitimate distributor of anime DVDs and VCDs in Singapore. Singapore Fans bashing Odex should be honest with themselves. Do you think people who download free movies eventually buy them? How do you think illegal downloads are affecting Odex business? I am very forgiving of Odex even for strange mistakes like the one on the Trinity Blood. Given the business condition in Singapore, I'm not surprised the company is struggling for survival and they try to cut corners, they actually need fan support. I paid C$180 for 5 region 1 TB disks but the region 3 volume 1 ( with 3 disks) of TB only cost C$20+, there are 2 volumes of TB for region 3 but I only own volume 1. I assume that if volume 2 is released, it would cost the same as volume 1. Hence, region 3 TB boxset would not cost more than C$50. I can see that Odex is trying to cut cost for consumers. Would fans understand?????? |
Odex clarified that the title 'had' to be changed from Trinity to Trinty because of 'religious issues'. |
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axeps2
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:54 am |
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http://digigatou.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/more-shots-of-odexs-haruhi-part-two/
more shots... If its really a coincidence, I have nothing to say. Odex must have been cursed with some bad luck |
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Talon87
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:47 am |
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| axeps2 wrote: | http://digigatou.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/more-shots-of-odexs-haruhi-part-two/
more shots... If its really a coincidence, I have nothing to say. Odex must have been cursed with some bad luck |
The 100% identity seen in these new photos has made me a believer, though I will still cautiously hold off on passing final judgment till I can see the (Odex) video with my own two eyes. But yeah ... thanks for the new pictures, as we sorely needed more than 3 pictures to go off of, and I think these explore some particularly tricky areas of translation where it's not likely for two translators to produce the exact same thing (UNLIKE what was seen earlier, where I could be more inclined to believe two different people would translate very simple adjectives and clause structures the same way). |
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DigiGatou
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:07 pm |
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| technokiddo wrote: | | There has been so many cases of identical translation. Odex is horrible. In Singapore, there are stalls set up near public transport selling Anti-Odex t-shirt. |
Don't talk rubbish. There are no such stalls and the only anti-odex t-shirts are coming through a MO at Hardwarezone EDMW.
| axeps2 wrote: | "http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1736427&page=6&pp=15"
Anyone knows for sure whether Odex 's release of Nanoha is before its Haruhi?
Odex seems to be improving from copy word for word to "heavily referenced". Who knows, they may even learn the refined art of PARAPHRASE in future.
Anyway, it will be harder to spot the similarities in their future work as Singaporeans are not supposed to have access to fansubs anymore.
Wait.... is that planned? |
Nanoha was definitely released before Haruhi, around 2-3 years ago, I think.
Odex seems to be improving. "heavily referenced" is them trying to paraphrase for 1/100 of the lines, but instead making English errors.
A.f.k subs against Odex subs. Sadly, wordpress screws up pictures and my theme isn't doing anything to help the dimensions of the pictures shown. Right Click>View picture for the full shots.
Part One
Part Two(posted by axseps2 above)
Is that enough proof? If it isn't Haruhi's still airing and I can get more photos.
Btw, most in Singapore can't record and upload videos from tv mainly due to the fact we don't have TiVo or other such recording devices.
More on the Nanoha subs will published once XedoDefense completes the comparisons..
I don't think Odex did any work on Fantastic Children other than the dubbing though.
| Kibamaru wrote: | | ivorymoose wrote: |
I often hope that Odex would use the official US translation instead.
Speaking of quality.........I own two sets of Trinity Blood (region 1 and 3). Trinity Blood is spelt wrongly on region 3 boxset 1. It is spelt "Trinty Blood" with an "i" missing. I am amused rather than upset because I cannot understand how such a mistake could be overlooked. This mistake is repeated on every page of cover of the boxset.
I am actually defensive of Odex, they are the only legitimate distributor of anime DVDs and VCDs in Singapore. Singapore Fans bashing Odex should be honest with themselves. Do you think people who download free movies eventually buy them? How do you think illegal downloads are affecting Odex business? I am very forgiving of Odex even for strange mistakes like the one on the Trinity Blood. Given the business condition in Singapore, I'm not surprised the company is struggling for survival and they try to cut corners, they actually need fan support. I paid C$180 for 5 region 1 TB disks but the region 3 volume 1 ( with 3 disks) of TB only cost C$20+, there are 2 volumes of TB for region 3 but I only own volume 1. I assume that if volume 2 is released, it would cost the same as volume 1. Hence, region 3 TB boxset would not cost more than C$50. I can see that Odex is trying to cut cost for consumers. Would fans understand?????? |
Odex clarified that the title 'had' to be changed from Trinity to Trinty because of 'religious issues'. |
This was after they 'talked it over with' various Buddhist and Hindu temples, due to "Trinity" being a religious symbol.
I'm sorry if I'm not making sense in this post, I'm just really tired and just finished publishing another post on Odex on the blog. |
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ivorymoose
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 199
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| Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:12 pm |
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| DigiGatou wrote: |
| Kibamaru wrote: | | ivorymoose wrote: |
.......Speaking of quality.........I own two sets of Trinity Blood (region 1 and 3). Trinity Blood is spelt wrongly on region 3 boxset 1. It is spelt "Trinty Blood" with an "i" missing. I am amused rather than upset because I cannot understand how such a mistake could be overlooked. This mistake is repeated on every page of cover of the boxset. |
Odex clarified that the title 'had' to be changed from Trinity to Trinty because of 'religious issues'. |
This was after they 'talked it over with' various Buddhist and Hindu temples, due to "Trinity" being a religious symbol. |
I am speechless on this. How is changing "Trinity" to "Trinty" change anything? Nothing will change the fact that the entire series is an offense to the Chirstian church. Perhaps, I should buy vol 2 R3 of TB, the title change is so rediculous, it's worth keeping. 
I am more than happy with Funimation's R1 Trinity Blood, the quality is excellent. |
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michellechan
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:32 am |
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| WELL, assuming the translations are correct, of course some lines would be the same, even if the translator has never seen the fansubs before. This has occured several times during my fansubbing carrer, even when I was translating from chinese and my friend was translating from Japanese. But if its a word-for-word case where the subtitle is open to variations, then... well, all I can say is that Odex copied. |
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