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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 795
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:47 am |
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| Zac wrote: |
Didn't I tell you to stop with the stupid devil's advocate crap? |
xD .....heh....
People who "can't afford" anime just basically use it for other things that aren't necessary. There are a lot of things I wish I had that I can't afford right now anyway...and I just didn't buy them unless I had to.
Believe it or not, you can save money to get something. I mean okay, you're going to download anime, but how could you support the creator who made it if you don't want to buy it? I'm not personally bashing anyone. I've been guilty of downloading myself, but I'm not doing it again. I may sound like a hypocrite sure...I've downloaded anime before. But I guess I'm no longer really into that...
If you want the original Japanese dub, why can't we just ask the company to make that series available for download? Death Note came out with a sub and it's affordable.
I didn't know Peach Girl was going to get licensed, but as soon as I found out Funimation did, I basically deleted it.
Ah...*shrugs.* I say do what you want, but if you think that you won't get sued, look what happened to that chick who got sued for downloading and sharing all those mp3s.
$222,000. I think we're just lucky that we haven't gotten legal action so far, individually. If you download and it's not legally obtained, it's still piracy. No negotiations, sad to say.
Last edited by tygerchickchibi on Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dargonxtc
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4152
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:24 am |
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| Enerccio wrote: | | Dargonxtc: whats your point? Now all who cannot afford to watch anime should stop watching at all? |
Well, yes and no. There isn't a clear cut answer as there are as many different circumstances as there are people on the planet. And I am certainly not going to get into a moral superiority argument. If you watch with the intent of buying the ones you love(which should be most of the ones you finish), whether it be buying R(X) or online purchases, and never finish the ones you don't like. Or if you simply live in a country that it is impossible to get legitimate releases(which is growing very small these days). Then I think a strong case can be made for rampant fansub viewing. If you watch them with the full intent of never paying for them, whether it be lack of money, or just calling yourself crafty, then fansubs aren't really for you. Sure you can download them just as sure as the sun rises, but the intent of the product you watched is lost on you. Is it the persons fault, it is hard to say in an atmoshpere that no longer regards personal responsibility as a good thing. That's why I am not so much anti-fansubs, as I am anti neo-fansub culture. It's not so much the product that's wrong, it's the people who abuse it and wield it as gently as clubbing a baby seal.
For instance, you said you've seen about 100 anime in the last year. I understand money is tight, but your goal should be to pick your 10 favorite (or as many as you can) and try to own them. It would be a great start, and if you really like something you should be able to find money to spend on it. And the shows that you don't really dig, you should just drop them. If every fan who downloaded torrent #865420 and never buys anything, actually bought just 10% of what they've watched the industry would be booming(not including others who buy at a higher percentage). And that would lead to not only more anime, but higher quality animation as well. And I can safely say that every "fan" would want those two things.
Lets say I am a fan of fishing. You say, what could be more free than that. But there are costs to fishing besides the act of catching the fish. Many of which support the industry in one way or another. Paying charter boats, or buy your own, purchase or rent rod, reel and buy tackle. You must pay the state a fee so that you can have a license, with that fee working towards protecting the fish stock. You are only allowed to catch so many fish a day/trip per year. Now lets say the state removed all restrictions on catch limits and provided free rod and reel for anyone who wanted to fish. You could catch as much as you wanted anytime any place. Fishing would be great for a few years, not to mention people would be eating very well, all the while saving money that they would otherwise spend on food. But then what happens? The fish disappear. There all caught, near extinct, and any you do find are sickly and small. I am sure people will find something else to eat, but what about the people who really like fish? I guess they will have to make due, telling there grandchildren how when they were younger they ate the now delicacy fish everyday.
When fansubs went digital it was like the fishing restrictions being lifted. All you have to do is hit save. Sure it was great for a few years, but many started to just use it as an excuse to watch something that used to cost money as something that was now just free. Did it turn some people on to anime, sure. But just because more people are fishing doesn't mean they are catching anything. The ocean(companies) can only produce whats given it.
Granted, anime is not extinct. But how long should it be given away for free(people who never buy anything). Is the way it is now fine? What percentage of viewers should companies expect to actually pay for there entertainment. 50%? 25%? 10%? 5%???
Or should anime just be a charity form of entertainment for the new internet savant?
Edit:
I am not saying people should only buy 10% of what they watch, ideally people should buy 100%. But if the "pay nothings" all of a sudden did start buying 10% then it would make a big difference. |
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2501
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:19 am |
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| Zac wrote: | | Didn't I tell you to stop with the stupid devil's advocate crap? |
No. You've said nothing of the sort to me. Im sorry if you consider what I'm doing as such. I do freely admit that since I vastly prefer dubs, I do personally do find it worth it to pay in exchange for having an industry here. However, that really is a matter of personal preference, not actual disagreement with their arguement. I would really rather actually be discussing how much licencing revenue affects the Japanese industry, but unfortunately, I keep getting hund up in trying to explain to people the basic idea of why our industry may seem of no use to people fine with just watching fansubs.
| Dargonxtc wrote: | | ikillchicken wrote: | | Whats your point? |
Point is how dare a company ask for money something that you can already instantly get for free. Companies purpose on this earth is not to make money, I don't care what every book I have ever read on the matter says. |
Its not as issue of them "daring" to do it. Its the fact that to someone who is fine with just seeing fansubs, all the industry seems to be doing is trying to make them pay for something they could otherwise get for free.
Let me give an example. Say you like going to the beach. Not some big public beach, just some little shore you know of you can go to whenever you want. Now all of a sudden, somebody buys that beach and tells you you've got to pay to go there. Also maybe they say you're only allowed there between certain hours.
Now on the upside, maybe they're going to use that money to improve the beach. Now maybe that makes it worth it. That really is the question (and the one Id rather be discussing here, rather than falling back into the same old debate.)
| Quote: | | ikillchicken wrote: | | illustrates an excellent point in favor of fansubs. |
Who says I am anti-fansubs? |
I didn't. I'm just responding to your various points which seem to be mostly condemning fansubs.
| Quote: | | ikillchicken wrote: | | and its basically the same old "you're not a real fan if you don't buy" statement. |
When did I say that? |
Well, you didn't literally say that. But then you haven't really said much literally. All your post have been totally sarcastic. I'm sorry if I mistook what you were saying, but if you don't want that to happen you probably ought to just say what you mean.
EDIT: Okay, now you have me a bit confused. If we were just Im a plain old fansub debate I think we would be mostly in agreement. However, in this issue here, yes abuse of fansubs can kill our industry, but thats our industry. Its the japanese industry that actually produces Anime. So what I'm wondering, is how much of an impact does the success of our industry have on the Japanese one. |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:38 am |
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| Zac wrote: |
Didn't I tell you to stop with the stupid devil's advocate crap? |
You told me, but of course when I'm arguing "for fansubs" I've never been playing devil's advocate. I'm totally anti-copyright in general. I just also feel that it's totally necessary for people to support what they value, and sadly the only way to do that right now is to purchase individual copies. |
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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 795
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:37 pm |
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| ikillchicken wrote: |
EDIT: Okay, now you have me a bit confused. If we were just Im a plain old fansub debate I think we would be mostly in agreement. However, in this issue here, yes abuse of fansubs can kill our industry, but thats our industry. Its the japanese industry that actually produces Anime. So what I'm wondering, is how much of an impact does the success of our industry have on the Japanese one. |
Good question. It must be affecting them, or they're trying to avoid losing money for future profit. It could be anything. But I wouldn't know...
I don't know if you guys have heard this...but did you hear about pro fansub individuals harassed a VA because she had posted about supporting anime and buying the series on her my space page?
5 individuals added her as a friend, and just bashed her. I think that's pretty sad, actually...and it kinda of puts a bigger negative view on fansub watchers. I don't really say all, but ones like that... |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:27 pm |
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| I'd considered saying something about "bashing" them in return, but I'm pretty sure they probably didn't even bother to add her as a friend on their real nicks but instead created accounts to troll. |
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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 795
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:34 pm |
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| I wouldn't be surprised if they took the time to put on fake accounts and did that.... What a waste of time. |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:40 pm |
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| Sadly, it's worse than a waste of time. I wish they had wasted it instead of going around trying to spread malcontent. It's extremely annoying being on any side of any debate and having trolls like that around. They serve to make everyone angry and less willing to talk about the issues in a responsible way. |
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2501
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:23 pm |
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tygerchickchibi:
Thats completely irrellevant. I could easilly find a few cases of completely idiotic anti-fansubbers and post them. However, finding a few individuals who are clearly idiots doesnt invalidate the entire arguement for their side.
There are stupid troll extremists on both sides of pretty much every debate. All you can really do is ignore them and try to have a discussion with the rational people. |
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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 795
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:13 pm |
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I never said it did.
I know she did work for Funi. And I kinda pointed it out because I'm curious to know if it happened as of cause to this article.
This is just coming up to the surface more, and even though I joined this forum shortly, I wasn't sure of how often this was talked about...or if it's been in the news before. Sorry about that.
I wasn't looking for a reason to jump down profansubbers' throats. I was just sharing something. Probably the wrong place to put it, though at the time I didn't see it that way. |
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Enerccio
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:07 am |
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Okay since target for this post is under lock, I can use this thread instead  .
Okay, I bought my first anime dvd.
I did it cause few conditions:
a) it was not expensive (around 20$)
b) it was located in my city
c) I already saw fansub/dvdrip and loved it.
I am talking about anime Paprika, which I saw not two days ago and today I went and bought it, since I love it. If there will be more licensed anime here I would be grateful to do that for each show. But as you can see I would not do it if I wont see paprika before for free... |
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Xanas
Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 1311
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:37 am |
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| We really need a solid survey to get beyond anecdotes that aren't accepted by either side. I don't recommend bringing a debate here as mods don't like people reviving threads when they just closed a similar discussion. |
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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 795
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:21 am |
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Ah...how annoying...
(Yeah, and how many people would watch it for free and NOT buy the DVD. And watching the DVD rip... that just makes it worse. )
*rolls eyes.* It's a repetitive thing, and no one is getting it.
Or better yet, they do get it, don't care and will still continue to do it.
I don't think they need "further convincing" to why they should should stop downloading fansubs.
As was said in the last thread, maybe speaking out to the companies would do a bit of good. At least it's better than doing nothing but leeching over and over again.
-.- before this gets into another b*tchfest, I request a lock. Please. |
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babbo
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:09 am |
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I'm confused, why do people always bring up the fact that you have to pay cable subscriptions in these discussions? It seems kind of a moot point to me, plenty of people have all sorts of subscriptions whether they can truly afford them or not. You can't even go into down town willimantic (not exactly a economically thriving city) without passing a a cluster of satellite dishes. That is to say, if there is interest people will be gettig the subscription regardless and not merely for any one thing
And I'm still laughing my ass off at the thought of Romeo x Juliet getting licensed
*seconds the motion for a lock*
Last edited by babbo on Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Damius
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Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:10 am |
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| Yeah, tyger is right... But we can not convince the others with anything. There will always be people who steal and give reasons for them to do so. We can not change that just by giving some arguments in a thread it will never end and giving nothing at all, no progress... so please lock this one too... |
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