Forum - View topicNEWS: Bandai Visual USA to Release Tokyo Metro Explorers
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jvowles Posts: 154 Location: Maryland |
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Anyone suing over their iPhones ought to have the lawsuit paperwork shoved down their throats. Surely it doesn't come as a surprise that the bright shiny new tech toy had a significant price drop within the first year? Idiots. The thing is, there *isn't* the same sort of cheap DVD consumer market in Japan as there is in the US. And the Bandai Visual stuff is geared toward pleasing hardcore Otaku -- the sort who, let's face it, have to have stuff right away and in the best possible form. They MUST have done their research on the buying patterns for their catalog, and for deluxe editions, and figured that the stuff they were selling was simply not aimed at a general audience. I think a more interesting question is this: Would they sell more in BOTH countries if they dropped the MSRP to the equivalent of $35 instead of $50? And is the pricing linked strongly to the cost of producing the discs, or is it more of a cost of licensing and marketing? Remember, too, that they're kind of hedging their bets with choosing a HD DVD format, and if Blu Ray is the one that finds itself on top of the heap in spring of next year, they'll have to shift gears pretty dramatically. ...which all goes back to the fact that early adopters ALWAYS wind up paying a premium. |
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| jsevakis ANN Director of New Media  Posts: 876 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Hey, Jim! I didn't know you were active on these forums...
I have no doubt they did research, I do doubt the research's validity. Selling too few units in the States means that it's likely not even worth the overhead of being in business here. If you can't satisfy both markets, you clearly have no business being in one of them. So what, is this whole business unit here to save face?
They don't necessarily have to lower the price in Japan. They control BOTH supply chains, it's not nearly as big a deal if a few savvy fans imported the US release than if it's, say, an ADV release. They still get the sale either way. The profits may be lower, but they still get most people buying domestic for domestic prices. (These days, ¥7,140 is pretty high for an R2 as well.) I can't speak for the price of HD-DVD replication (I'm told it's not significantly higher), but for DVD replication, nobody in their right mind pays more than $2.50 per unit for replication, including standard Amaray cases, shrink-wrap and printing. Most places will do it for $1.10 these days. So, no, manufacturing is not a factor. I think it's pretty clear that this is more an issue of the production expenses. This film is, more or less, dependent on DVD sales to recoup its production costs. Despite getting a theatrical release, it's pretty much an OAV from a business standpoint. In that regard, I'm sure this release is intended so Bandai can say, "it got a US release!" while protecting its R2 sales as much as humanly possible. It's a half-assed solution that will result in half-assed (i.e. Japan-only) success. Had it been properly marketed, given a decent release and at a proper price point, the film might have had a chance at real success here. Without even a retail distribution partner, BV's release is just a waste of a license. |
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| GATSU Posts: 8423 |
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| dormcat: Depending on the title, I'd want a bit of 1 and 2. As for the people buying R2, I don't see the point, considering you gotta deal with higher import fees on top of the regular price. The people who do that usually just want some limited edition item which is only exclusive to Japan.
jvowles: The thing is that not all of their dvds are otaku-oriented. For example, I'd imagine they were hoping SOS! Tokyo Explorers would appeal to family audiences, or they wouldn't sell it during the holiday season. But obviously, at the price they're selling it, people are gonna opt for Ratatoullie and/or the Wii instead. I personally think they should take a loss on their more marketable titles like Rune, but continue to sell the stuff no one is going to buy, like Honneamise, at whatever price they want. Also, in the case of re-mastering older titles like Jin Roh, they really should come up with an exchange discount for people who already have it, like Animeigo did with Ah My Goddess.. |
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| dormcat Encyclopedia Editor  Posts: 7337 Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC |
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To me, their definition of hardcore otaku is a bit lagged. Take a look at what they've licensed; with the exception of Galaxy Angel Rune, all others (including Demon Prince Enma, created by Go Nagai) are best suited to pre-millennium SF/mecha otaku (i.e. the torchbearers of Toshio Okada), and I believe those old otaku have watched most, if not all of them. These people started watching anime way before the time of digital fansub and post-millennium anime boom in North America. I am no professional marketing expert, but to me the potential customers are 1) old otaku who want to replace their VHS 2) intermediate anime fans who want to "improve" themselves after getting curious about what founders of their anime clubs always feeling nostalgic (i.e. babbling) about.
Seconded. While regular people like us can't access their sales figures, I'm still curious about how well BV USA have been doing with titles they've licensed. |
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| jvowles Posts: 154 Location: Maryland |
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I got to preview Tokyo Explorers -- it's REALLY fun, looks stunning in HD, and I'd like to see more of the characters. But for once, I tend to agree with your take on this -- mostly. I think they're trying to: 1. Satisfy the hardcore fans that buy the majority of their stuff by providing timely releases of high quality products, both in Japan and in the US 2. Minimize the impact of overseas importing -- in Japan, where their sales are strongest, they do not want to lose the sales to overseas distribution channels where the profit margins are much lower. Simultaneous or near-simultaneous releases will do a lot here. 3. Minimize the impact of the inevitable piracy. High quality releases laden with extras can do this. What they OUGHT to consider is flipping the usual model. Issue the high-quality, loaded version first at a premium, and follow up about three months later with a bare-bones version. (Some folks could care less about packaging and extras.) |
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Ryusui Posts: 287 |
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Fixed and voted. |
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| tempest ANN Editor in Chief  Posts: 7059 Location: Montreal |
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They have this problem fixed, I'm just waiting for an official confirmation so that I can post about it.
How do you define success? Is something a success if you sell thirty thousand units, but only turn $5000 profit? What about if you sell only 1000 units but turn $10,000 profit? Which is more successful? BVUSA is obviously intent on a business model more similar to the latter, selling fewer copies but making more profit per copy. As a consumer, I am not the least bit of a fan of BVUSA's price point, but it's pretty clear that the $29.95 isn't doing very well for every anime company in the market right now. It certainly didn't do very well for Geneon (although their problems were significantly more than "charging too much or too little for their product."). It's very hard to judge which business model will ultimately be more successful. BV is a Japanese company, it makes no sense for them to hurt their Japanese sales in order to boost their US sales, it's no good if their US sales skyrocket due to a low price point, but ultimately end up cannibalizing their Japanese sales due to reverse imports. On the other hand, will a higher price point just lead to more rampant piracy of that title? Many american consumers will be more than willing to download titleX if they think the company releasing titleX is charging a completely unfair price for titleX. But again, if in face of rampant piracy, perhaps BV figures it can make more worldwide profit with higher prices and piracy, than with lower prices and... just a bit less piracy. Honestly, I suspect that BVUSA's pricing is a multi-year experiment. They don't know the answers to the above questions, and they're trying to find out. -t |
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| james039 Posts: 87 |
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| FWIW, anyone who had intended to import the R2 version might see this as a convenience. Not only do they get English subs added at no extra charge, but they can find it in a local shop. This would also be cheaper for those people since they don't have to pay shipping charges from Japan. As a bonus, anyone who would have been willing to import an R2, but opted against it *only* because they can't understand Japanese will have English subs on the disc, which would make them willing to buy it. | ||||||||||||||
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HellKorn Posts: 1384 Location: Columbus, OH |
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This is purely hearsay, so take it with a good helping of salt, but it was mentioned a few months back on AoD that the first volume of Gunbuster 2 had sold over 1,000 units. Which, if my little understanding of the industry is correct, means that BV USA gained more on that volume alone than they have with many individual volumes of other series that they've licensed to. Even if it were true, though, that's not an accurate indication as to how successful some of their niche titles (Demon Prince Enma, Galaxy Angel Rune) are. But what a lot of the folks who are balking at BV USA's business model don't realize is that this evil company who wants to create another Japanese market in the U.S. is that they might actually be getting a lot out of this. More than what they would've if they had licensed it? Don't know. But if they're successful and make just enough, then that's all that really matters to them. |
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| GATSU Posts: 8423 |
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jvowles:
Personally, I think it should be the other way around... tempest:
AOD claims Broccoli's distributing, but that's even worse, because if they couldn't sell "I'm Gonna Be An Angel", how do they expect to succeed with an $80 version of Jin Roh?!
And look how well this model worked out for the PS3.  But anyway, it takes money to make money; and if you don't eat some of the costs associated with production and distribution, you'll never
get ahead. Plus, selling so many dvds at a higher price than the competition in one year is just going to hurt them sooner, rather than later. If it was one or two titles, they could probably build a market for it, but flooding an already overcrowded market without offering any real alternative is just going to bite them in the ass.
I can understand and respect them having to charge $30-$40 for certain dvds, but anything above that is suicidal. And doing it for shows which might have similar appeal to other shows priced at a cheaper rate is just being ignorant of market trends. Ironically, Geneon would be considered more successful in that sense than BV.
Yeah, well, it makes no sense for Disney of Japan to give Taiwanese, European and American consumers a break on their dvds, either, but they did it anyway, because they want their property to sell to the widest possible audience. BV wouldn't be expanding to the U.S., if it didn't think it could reach more people, either, but they're clearly going about it the wrong way.
That didn't seem to be the case with Final Fantasy 7: Last Order...
I'd imagine most fans would rather pirate shows like Lucky Star than Gunbuster. Hellkorn: But do they really make that much dough, if they have to split distribution costs with other companies? And then there's the issue of people buying their properties at discounted rates. How much did they lose in the process? |
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| HellKorn Posts: 1384 Location: Columbus, OH |
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The North American anime industry's bread and butter aren't heavily discounted stores that are frequently found online (I know you didn't state those specifically, but bear with me). Ultimately what Bandai Visual USA has to pay for is the actual creation of the DVDs (i.e. slapping English subtitles and translating your R2 releases) and the distribution. They don't have to split anything with types like ADV or FUNimation. You don't have the cost of English dubs bogging them down. Even when considering that, they're probably not making as much as other R1 companies with these releases, but when the money returns to them they are less likely to have lost as much due to the process. If the print run is lower than usual, that also helps them. Basically, we can't say much for certain, but their model is apparently getting them by, if nothing else. And if nothing else, I think they might've gotten a clue with their seperate DVD and Blu Ray releases for this movie. Or maybe this is one of those exceptions. ... I've also yet to decide if I'm even going to ponder the idea of buying this film. I love Otomo as a manga-ka, and this being an adaption from his work is interesting. But there are some other factors to consider... |
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| GATSU Posts: 8423 |
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Hellkorn:
Their bread and butter are heavily discounted brick-and-mortar stores like Best Buy.
Actually, they manufacture the dvds. Broccoli does the subs.
Dubbing has nothing to do with distribution costs. ADV and FUNimation aren't gonna be selling a competitor's dvds for free, unless they get something out of it, too. It takes time and effort out of selling their own products, and neither of those are cheap.
They won't lose as much money, because they won't have any money to lose. |
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| HellKorn Posts: 1384 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Which is what I was implying.
Either way, the cost doesn't amount to much.
Which is glossing over the point. They don't dub their anime into English. That saves them money. A lot of money. Money that they don't have to worry about making up for like the major companies in R1 do.
I'm stupid. Clarify this. |
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| GATSU Posts: 8423 |
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Hellkorn:
If it doesn't amount to much, then they can sell their dvds at more reasonable prices. If it does amount to much, then they need to come up with a better scale for what they can charge more for, and what they should take a hit on to reach more consumers.
Perhaps, but it won't net them much awareness or success. And they'll probably lose market share to Animeigo, of all companies.
They won't lose money, because their investments are tied up in dvds which depend on random generous people purchasing them. Thus, whatever money they could lose will not be there for them, since they'll be waiting a while to make it back. And it seems like they're already hurting, if they have to screen their entire series at random Mid-West cons, instead of one episode or two like other companies.... |
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hikaru004 Posts: 1833 |
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| I can understand showing Wings of Rean and Demon Prince Enma in their entirety. It's not like these are mainstream titles. R1 does like to preview before buying imo. | ||||||||||||||
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