Forum - View topicNEWS: Japanese Animators, Directors Establish First Union
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| rg4619 Posts: 160 |
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In Japan, high prices (and the fervor of otaku) are essential given how niche the market actually is. While children's anime (Pokemon, Naruto, Detective Conan, etc.) is relatively mainstream, the same can't be said for otaku shows, which comprise nearly everything I watch. As a whole, the industry is far more prolific (at the expense of animators) than it should realistically be. I just wonder what the market would be like if wages were to match that of western countries (otaku sector obliterated?). |
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| Egan Loo Posts: 353 |
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That "several hundred United States dollars" is not the same as "$300 a month." The other numbers listed in the article give the best case scenario for a storyboarder (US$2,400) and key animator (US$1,500) working every single day for a month and getting paid for it, and the more typical scenario (the 20-30% who actually earn US$500 to US$900, which is where the typical key animators fall). And yes, the low end of these numbers is unfeasible for independent living wages. That is the point what JAniCA is trying to drive home. That's why some animators subsist on public welfare or can't afford their own apartment. |
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| tempest ANN Editor in Chief  Posts: 7058 Location: Montreal |
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| The article is fairly consistent with an article we published two years ago here. Although I now have reason to believe that we made a mistake in that article and where we said "storyboard animators" we should have said "inbetween animators."
I do not know if the article we originally translated from was itself erroneous, or if we made an error in the translation. At the time we were dependent on volunteer translators, as opposed to the more capable translators we have on staff today, so I suspect the mistake was our own. I remember at the time that the translator I was working with to write that article had a hard time translating a term and eventually settled on "storyboard." Anyways, if we substitute "inbetween" for "storyboard" and we know that inbetweeners make less than key-frame animators, then the previous article supports the new one. -t |
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Roy9076 SubscriberExempt from Grammar rules  Posts: 279 Location: California |
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| Well it's about damn time something is being done. However, I do see a sting about this... | ||||||||||||
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| GATSU Posts: 8419 |
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Joichiro:
You don't seem to realize that the older animators are doing most of the work, and that there aren't enough younger ones around to keep the industry going. I'd imagine that job security would actually encourage more new blood with the potential to maintain the quality we have today.
Yes, and it led to crap like Beauty and the Beast. 
Yes, because Bakshi, Pixar, Kricfalusi, Groening, etc. don't = quality".
Costs are more expensive now than ever, and the quality hasn't suffered one iota. |
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Ranmah Posts: 273 Location: Stomp'n on Tokyo Tower |
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| This is quite shocking. It is good to finally see the cold hard facts about Animation in Japan. I for one would like to see my fellow artists get what they deserve (decent pay, health benefits, some royalties).
It sucks that these artists are barely surviving in Tokyo. This place can be extremely expensive. Where do I sign up? |
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| Tyrenol Posts: 350 Location: Northern California |
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All arguments about "quality" aside... On some blog or forum I said something about the anime industry being just like the toy industry (or every other industry). When kids started dying off from the poison lead paint on the toys, there was this gigantic recall for every toy made in China. I'll ask this again: What makes anyone think that the Japanese animation industry is any different from the Chinese toy industry? Plus; said anime industry is doing as much outsourcing as the American animation industry. More, if you ask me. What needs to happen: 1) Japan needs to cut down on all the anime they make. Especially the for-otakutachi ones. 2) Quit the outsourcing. If you have to create something on the cheap, then it's not worth creating at all. 3) Bring back the American animation industry; done by Americans who are being paid "living wages." We don't need another sweatshop mentality. (Thank You, Nike.) |
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| Carl Horn Posts: 83 |
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| This is a very welcome development, and in the spirit of Hayao Miyazaki, who became general secretary of the union at Toei shortly after he became an animator. To pay animators a pittance is to exploit them materially; to say it's OK because they're doing it for love is even worse, because then you're exploiting their spirit as well. Just as I think better anime will be made by engaging with the real world (instead of only copying other anime), animators themselves need to engage with the real world--especially when that real world, in the face of the Japanese government and media, is pushing them forward as the future of Japan's economy. | ||||||||||||
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Porcupine Posts: 1033 |
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"several hundred United States dollars" to me means the same as $300 to $400. Probably not $500 and certainly not anywhere near $900. The definition of the word "several" is itself somewhat vague, but in any case, if we are arguing about it now, then the article probably shouldn't have used such a vague term to begin with. "Typical"...yet another vague term. To me "typical" means at least 66% of the total population, certainly 50% or more. Not 20% of people. That's not "typical". And, if this article (the recent one) is stating that 70% to 80% of animators make more than $1000 a month (100% minus 20% = 80%) then to be honest, I don't feel that they are that severely underpaid. It would also be nice if we were given figures for exactly what percentage of animators do in-between work, what percentage do keyframes, what percentage do storyboards, etc. That way we would have a sense of scale over how much an average animator deserves to make. For example, what if 80% of animators have the task of doing the in-between grunt work. That's a low skill position and the quality of the images in the in-between frames are usually awful. I would think $10000 a year might not be unreasonable compensation for that position. That might be a mean thing to say, but if all anime were gorgeously drawn for every single frame that appears, I wouldn't have said that. |
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Moomintroll Posts: 1008 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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$12000 a year is roughly £6000. That's a third of the national average wage here in the UK - and the cost of living in Japan is significantly higher than it is here (and much, much higher than in the USA). It's certainly below the poverty level and far too little to support a family. Even someone working a minimum wage job in a fast food outlet would earn twice that here. |
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| GATSU Posts: 8419 |
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Tyrenol:
Well, for one thing, the Japanese are of a different race than the Chinese. But another thing is that the Japanese do their own work, and aren't just serving as outsourcing for American companies like the Chinese "manufacturing" industry. And while the Japanese do things on the cheap, they still generally try to put out a quality product.
No, we're the worst in that area, because we care more about selling toys than entertaining audiences. The Japanese might outsource some of their animation work, but it's really just there to establish market presence in certain parts of the world known for bootlegging. They aren't going to be laying off their talent to make low-budget shows anytime soon, because, unlike us, they care about the people behind the productions; and, besides, it adds to the prestige of their studios to keep them. Porcupine:
Then feel free to move to Japan and pick up some of the slack for them...
Do you know how many frames they're forced to produce on the average? |
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| Egan Loo Posts: 353 |
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The general phrase "several hundred United States dollars" (or the Japanese equivalent, sūman-en) is used in the beginning of the Japanese sources, and then detailed with numbers consistent with it. That is what this article does as well.
The 20-30% refers to just the percentage of key animators in Japan. The key animators are a subset of the animator community in Japan.
In the United States, the federal minimum wage is $5.85 an hour. At eight hours a day and 21 days a month, that is US$982. Next year, it will be US$1,100.40. 20%-30% of the key animators in Japan make the monthly equivalent of US$500-900. Plus, Geidankyo survey reported that Japanese animators work more than 10 hours a day on average. 20-30% of the key animators in Japan are working for less than the equivalent of minimum wage in the United States — in some of the most expensive metropolitan areas in the world. Saying that 70% to 80% of key animators in Japan are being paid more than the American minimum wage — as opposed to 100% — is not a statistic to be proud of.
At 40 hours a week and 50 weeks a year, a person on federal minimum wage in the United States makes US$11,700. US$10,000 a year is not even minimum wage in the United States for a person with virtually no skills and two weeks of vacation.
This is a chicken-and-egg situation. Sub-living-standards wages feed into the sub-quality-standards work, and vice-versa. |
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| Porcupine Posts: 1033 |
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Moomin, yeah $10000 a year is certainly far too little to support a family and is at the poverty level. It does seem to me though that, at least based on your figures, the average income level and minimum income levels are far higher in the UK than in the USA and Japan. See Egan Loo's breakdown for minimum wage in the USA, which I completely agree with. If Moomin's numbers for the UK are correct then the UK is almost twice as rich as the USA and Japan.
This could be related or it could not be, but I have also had numerous issues in the past wondering how to say "Maybe" or "Probably" in Japanese. I kept being told in Japanese classes and by Japanese speakers that I should use the word "tabun" for both situations, however in English "maybe" and "probably" have hugely different meaning, and one word certainly cannot apply to both of them. I've never been able to resolve this mystery by the way, much to my frustration! 
For example, I personally have a slight bit of experience painting and building anime resin figures. My skill level is certainly far above that of the average human out there, who has no idea what procedures and substances are involved in this. However, my skill level is totally amateur and does not really compare to what professionals do. If I tried to make a living off of painting resin kits for other people, do I expect to be paid well simply because I have a skill that is above average? No. I'd probably expect to be paid more working at a fast food restaurant (a completely unskilled occupation). Heck, if I tried to make a living off of painting resin figures for other people I'd probably make half as much as I would working at a fast food restaurant. The bottom line is that a skill is generally not worth anything unless your skill is at a certain level. Simply having the skill at a slightly above average level is not sufficient to make it worth anything. So that's the situation that probably applies to the lowest-paid animators out there. They have some skill to draw, certainly above average, but they don't draw exceptionally well, so they are used as grunts for in-between frames and such. People in this position deserve to make minimum wage. |
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| Egan Loo Posts: 353 |
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Not only is that too little to support a family, it's also too little to support one individual independently in the metropolitan areas of Japan. That's why some animators have resorted to public welfare and living with their parents.
"Being of a number more than two or three but not many" fits.
Sorry, the reply above should have said the other way around.
"Slightly more than" downplays the gap. 20-30% of the animators make the equivalent of US$500-900. The high end of that range is just less than American minimum wage, but the median is far from it.
Even a fast-food restaurant worker makes at least minimum wage.
But a main point of JAniCA is that many don't even make that. |
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| Porcupine Posts: 1033 |
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| What's minimum wage in Japan?
As to the "several" issue, that's the definition I've seen too, but like I said before, that's a vague definition which is subject to personal interpretation. It's probably not a word that should be used in a situation where one cares about precision, such as regarding wages. "9" is definitely a many number, and to most people "5" or "6" would also be too many to be classified as "several". |
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