Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan Asks America to Stop Illegal Net Releases of Anime
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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Impratical? Seriously, CCS wasn't trying to say that she's better because she collects plenty of titles. Oye... -.-
*Necessarily. No, there can be rentals, going to the library, affordable downloads. And some sites even stream a free episode. They even did cable on demand, like the Anime Network, Funimation Channel, etc. I mean..what else can be said? Everyone is saying that they didn't try hard enough...but friggin hellz...we're NOT in the industry.
Eh...yeah, sure. I suppose... In addition to your recent post, trying to compromise with a fansub group that already broke the law and further insulting them by continuing to throw out their content throughout the masses, it's not really going to be easy...There are going to be a lot of problems. |
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Steventheeunuch
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Not that this is MEANT to be a derogatory statement towards him/her, but you find that the people who wave around numbers of DVDs they have (take the AOD forums for example) are trying to make themselves out to be bigger, or better, or whatever Might not be the case here but it feels like that. Subsequently as a person who DID try to buy everything under the sun, yes, it is impractical.
Shows not yet licensed, shows with poor US adaptations/treatment, shows that will not get licensed. Affordable downloads where of what? Anything worthwhile? Say, for example, where did that Death Note subbed download thing go? Subsequently if you want Anime say, subtitled, TAN and FUnimation channel are essentially useless. Streaming episodes are the same. Libraries are spotty with discs at best, and besides which, how is hiring from a library any better? How does that, in any way, support an industry, considering the disc has already been paid for and then could be what, loaned out to hundreds of people, each one not willing to go ahead and buy it for themselves because theyve already seen it? Again I'm not suggesting fansubs are the end all of avenues to take, but they're a practical one, assuming it's used correctly and not abused, which it currently is. But that abuse can stem from a neglect on the Japanese side to properly address the issue.
Your point?
No, but we're essentially footing their bill. Mind you, I understand the severe limitations and frustrations that face those working in the R1 market. My ire is directed at those on the Japanese side who seem to have this constant mindset of basically crippling business over here to maximise profits in Japan, and yet still complain to the US even though they themselves do not take practical approaches to work things out on both sides, and thus they lose out because they lack the ability to have foresight or whatever. On a further note this is an issue to be taken with the suits, producers and executives and not nessecerally the creative staff, whos contributions (depending on who) I appreciate and applaud. Last edited by Steventheeunuch on Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I have to bring this back to a point though. If I am actually spending the money on a DVD I'm likely contributing more from the 1 DVD than the rental service which is also incorporating a lot of other fees for products I'm not even using. So if I buy dvds and watch fansubs for preview, if I spend more that way I may actually be contributing more to the industry than doing things the "right way" as you are putting it. Lets say I watch one of these shows with "no replay value" and instead of buying the whole thing I buy 2-3 volumes I wouldn't. I may be contributing more than I would have if I rented it (and almost certainly more if I found a library that actually carries anime.... mine certainly doesn't). If someone can give me a reasonable idea of how much rentals contribute to the industry (or alternative merchandise to dvds), I'd appreciate it. I like DVDs personally, but I would at least recommend something to others I know who will never want to buy the DVDs. |
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Steel Angel
 Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
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Another possibility is like what ADV has been recently doing. They are offering both recent releases and recent "hot" titles to be streamed/downloaded for a fraction of what the dvd's cost. Yes there is a catch to it. The catch being that you are buying the digital rights to view it a limited number of times. 3 times if i remember correctly. The other catch is that it does require Windows (eg: no Mac support or Linux). However it is a cheap and effective way to watch Anime. If other companies follow suit, and considering they are doing this before the dvd's release more often then not, it is a viable alternative. If more companies start doing this, and it becomes more main stream, it would quickly be a fair answer I believe, even if it isnt a perfect solution to it in its entirety. Food for thought anyways. |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1448 |
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Ah, I'm sure she was collecting it within a timeline, and yeah, I've spent hundreds of dollars on items I've collected through out the 6 years I've been introduced to anime. -.- I'm still not getting your point, though...I'm sorry.
As far as I knew, they had it still available. And why don't you actually search? I can't read your mind. Perhaps if you really want something that hasn't been available yet, suggest it.
Ah, well, for one thing, it's authorized. And there is a risk, just like renting, just like downloading, just like buying...either way, something may or may not happen. Library is free. In terms of that, I mean... Like I said, everyone is griping here, but not using what they have to say something. Arguing is getting nowhere here. ^^;
Huh? Also, a lot of releases are made bilingual and are still being downloaded too... x_x fansubs with licensed content is a big issue as well. Practical isn't legal. Ah, I don't know. Neglect, I can't really say that is a valid statement. Not saying that you're wrong, I'm just partly doubtful.
I said sure. Did there have to be one? If you want a more direct answer, I don't necessarily agree with you, I was just like "eh whatever," and not entirely bothered in going further. I wanted to, just couldn't really think of the words to say.
Japanese profits....hmm... Well, they want to maximize profits yes, that's their discretion, and it still is THEIR product, so they do have a right to bitch and moan. In terms of a compromise, maybe as fans we can try to do something? I mean, we're all debating here and its getting us nowhere. Some people just deal with it by downloading more. Others want to see improvement... o.o! Ah, Death Note is on! *stares at tv.* |
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babbo
Posts: 274 |
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I think he was just commenting on the anime nerd cock fighting people seem to initiate waiving around how big their collection is or how long they've been collecting for <.<
After reading through this thread, seeing you of all people say that cracks me up ;D |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1448 |
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She wasn't bragging, she was stating an example, using herself. It seems people are taking it in all sorts of ways. I thought of it positively, while people took it negatively. And I don't have much as her and still didn't think she was trying to be high and mighty. Yeah, there's people who do things like that with Star Wars and Transformers and such. It happens everyday.
o.o glad you're amused. ^^; I was thinking of it in a different context. Though ah, I can't find the words to describe what I really want to say. Stand bv if you'd like. It'll come eventually. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Britanica--
Are there titles I'm less than thrilled with? Yeah, sure. I probably will never buy the last Kiddy Grade dvd, but I did get all the way down to 1 dvd shy of finishing. Am I horribly disappointed? No, there are some good VA's involved & nice bishies, but the whole plot was just so predictable, bishies weren't enough. It was pitched heavily in Newtype & I thought the characters would have more to do, but it was more a character parade. If I found that last dvd cheap enough, yeah, I might get it, but right now, it's not worth my money. I will be odering the Trinity Blood Box set during the current Funimation sale. The bishies are hot, but the story really has so many plot holes (at least in the English dub) the box price is all I'm willing to pay. I was so hopeful with Spiral & it didn't even live up to it's advertising "WHat are the Blade Children?" They NEVER say!) However, Eyes is still hot & he's voiced by Akira Ishida. Redhead(Kousuke?) is still voiced by Takeshi Kusao. I'm fine with that. I paid $5 for Twin Signal & was pleasantly pleased. Takehito Koyasu is worth $5. The dif is I understand it's not MY story. It's not even the original author's if it's based on a manga. Just like any movie, all anime projects are an interpretation so yeah, they just might to south on episode 26, but I just don't buy for the whole story. I know how to ride out the thin times to get to the fat times. I loved Charmed. It went south around season 5 & I stopped watching. Same with Smallville-don't seem to have time to watch it anymore, but I do keep up with Supernatural. But if it's incredible enough to keep you watching to ep 20, why the hell should the director taking the ending somewhere you don't like be any reason whatsoever to not buy the title? So it's flawed. There's a lot in this world that's less than perfect. If you're looking for perfection, you're going to be disappointed in an awful lot. As for the toys, yes, certain stores do import the Japanese toys, however, some are real & some aren't. I have a dozen Saint Seiya saints. I hope for what I've paid, they're all real, but not all have the little holigram sticker, so I'm susicious. ALl I can do is not buy from the people who sell the ones without the sticker, something I can't necessarily do with internet orders until after I buy the doll. I buy cds from CDJapan. When Funi licensed FMA I seem to recall some fuss that they tried to insist they only had the right to sell the soundtracks & places that had imported the cds from Japan were at one point given a cease & desist letter, Not sure if it was ever ironed out. I also have some Sgt Frog figures such as the ones with the interchangeable faces. Steve-- Thank you for round about saying my taste sucks. Or do you mean something else by
No, I'm not trying to have the largest collection. You'd be surprised at what has replay value. Already Demon Prince Enma has been viewed about 4 times thru. GetBackers & Wedding Peach were viewed twice-Japanese & English. As much as I love Cardcaptor Sakura, I've not watched them as often since they are sub. I took part in those 25 dvds for $100 Geneon & ADV sales Right Stuf had, so at $4 per dvd, I figure I paid rental price per dvd for stuff like Melody of Oblivion, Rumiko Takahashi Anthology, Mermaid Forest, New Getter Robo (& I love Getter Robo anyway), etc. Not to mention how many of my dvds have made the rounds of my teen's friends (Hellsing for one was pretty popular. Gokudo & Slayers have also made the rounds. Maze is currently out. Just got Virus & Dual back) I may not have watched most of Sailor Moon, but I have it & I bought it for my child to watch. I want to come home from worj after a hard day & laugh my head off at something. My teen comments she can hear me cackling from my room in the back of the house all the way in the living room. I want hot bishies to drool over. I love You Higuri's art. Do I care Gakuen Heaven is based on a game & I find most anime based on games to be less intricate than those based on a manga & thus often more disappointing, though that doesn't mean mot worth buying. My issue with fansubs is they never seem to go away. Bootlegs are horrible messes, BUT at a certain point, they go away. When a title is so old, no one cares about it good luck finding a bootleg. My teen's friends are always downloading stuff like Gravitation which has been licensed for yrs. Steel Angel- Yeah, we all slow down. At a certain point, one does try to slow down. ONe can't buy everything, so one becomes pickier. I don't regret the stuff I bought in the past, though, because I still remember what attracted me to each title I bought. If I really want, I can trade them in at Gamestop, but I haven't done that yet, so I'm fine with what I have. I really do hope they can close the gate, but I fear fansubs have become too ingrained. Is it selfishness, hell yeah. I listened to one of my radio dj's boy himself into a hole just the other day saying he's have refused to evacuate & would have stayed behind to protect his home.--even if his staying behind meant the firefighters couldn't drop the retardant to maybe save the whole neighborhood? Yeah, as long as his house was saved, he didn't care. As long as everyone downloading their anime get their anime, do they really care of the rest of us can buy it legitimately because the industry is doing poorly? |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Exactly. Inorder to have an actual discussion which actually has some point, there are certain dos and don'ts. ie. Don't make moral arguements. Telling people you shouldn't download because its "wrong" because you got it without paying for it. You can't really factually debate whether that makes it wrong. You think its wrong to get something without paying. They evidently do not though. Therefore it is just going to come down to you saying it is wrong and them responding that it isn't. I'm not saying people are wrong to think this, but to use it to try and convince people is just pointless. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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We're not here to tell people what they can believe and whether or not they should support their ideals in their arguments regarding the issue. We're here to discuss the news article, keep it on that topic or this topic is gone.
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cloud1989
 Posts: 274 |
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what if the japanese lowered there prices a bit, not to match ours but make it more acceptable worldwide, say $40 msrp which would sell in stores for maybe $30 and got these fansub groups that do it free of charge to sub R2 dvd's free of charge, no extra cost on the japanese and with subs and reachable price they now have a whole nation to sell more to, blue ray is one step torward that by letting go of region protection. This is mainly concerned with titles that don't get any attention over here offically though, like for instance I am a fan of macross, I know just recently there was 2 reprinted boxsets of macross 7, would it have been to much of a problem for the japanese to think "hey, no one in America wants it release it, macross does have a fan base, although not to big, so why don't we slap on some subs to make a few extra bucks". The only problem is it would only really matter if the series wasn't released here which could take awhile to confirm.
Then again, fansub groups can use a different tactic and be like the game translation community, someone at macrossworld did this with the DYRL movie. Release a patch for the dvd, a patch would be simply the subs, nothing more and nothing less and it would be up to the person who downloads it to obtain a copy of the media to put it one. Again this only really works for non US released anime without any chance of getting here. But it does kill of one reason to use fansubs. Yes it is still illigal to translate without permission but it wouldn't really attract the japanese attention because its just more money for them. |
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Desslar
Posts: 70 Location: Washington, DC |
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Hopefully the anime distributors will eventually get on the iTunes train and start turning a profit on all this downloading.
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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The Japanese companies aren't going to start selling their DVDs cheaper overseas because they'd lose money on reverse importation (i.e. Japanese fans ordering the DVDs from Europe or America).
There are some fansub groups that do a good translation job. There are many others that don't. As a sub-watcher, I wouldn't be buying DVDs if I couldn't rest assured that I was getting quality professional translations. I suspect that getting the translations done by amateurs would scare away as many customers as it would attract. In any case, if you were running a Japanese anime company, would you leave this responsibility in the hands of a bunch of unpaid amateurs who you've never met and have no control of? Not likely.
I'm not sure what the situation in the USA is but most of the world has been ignoring region protection for years. The vast majority of DVD players are either region free or can easily be set to be region free. I don't see region protection as being a big issue.
That actually strikes me as a pretty good (and workable) idea. I don't really see a downside to it provided the sub patch is of a decent standard. Of course, the high cost of Japanese imports mean that it would only appeal to those who really wanted to support the industry and most of those who download would continue to do so but a slight improvement is better than nothing. |
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tygerchickchibi
Posts: 1448 |
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iTunes is a good idea. I think there still would be some issues though... They already sell J-Pop music on their site, so Anime won't be difficult. But there's always going to be a process. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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If you browse CD Japan, a lot of Japanese dvd's are in the 20-40 dollar price range...... most of them aren't 60 or 70 per dvd [the higher prices tend to be for OVA's, and complete series boxsets, which at a per ep price, aren't too bad, just one heckuva committment]. Ep counts can be the same as US ones, or a little lower, but they're not entirely out of realm of purchasing possibility for most people. [though you can get it for cheaper domestically if you just wait for a little while anyways. Patience pays]
I think the point CCS was trying to make is that you CAN build a large anime collection without spending tons of cash. Between sale prices, lower priced collections, repriced/reissues dvd's, Ebay, used DVD's, VHS in general, discounts if you preorder, and simply hunting around for the best price and staying on the watch for cheap anime whenever you're at a place that sells DVD's, you can build a pretty large collection, with many discs costing as little as 5 bucks or less. Add in stuff where the SRP is already pretty cheap like CPM's catalogue or Media Blasters boxsets, and stuff where even at full price it's still a great value like ADV's Thinpacks, and even if you just stick to basic brick and mortar stores and special order stuff, you can still build a decently huge collction without shelling out 30 bucks per DVD. And you can find much of this sort of stuff online, or in retail stores [seriously, watch those dvd bins at Walmart. They're everywhere]. If you don't have a credit card, many places take money orders too. Then there's legitimate ways to enjoy anime on a loan basis for free or at low costs like Libraries [who FYI, would benfit greatly from your support- increasing their circulation stats, which helps them get funding, which means more stuff gets bought and available for loan], or Rental Stores [online, or your local blockbuster]. Then factor in Cable TV, and you can watch anime pretty much nonstop. You might have to wait a year to see what's on in Japan now, but with over 500 titles available domestically or more [most with multiple volumes], and even MORE manga available domestically, you'll have lots of stuff to enjoy while you wait. All this can be done while supporting the anime industry, and avoiding ripping them off by stealing their work. For those who complain about stuff not getting licensed quickly enough, well stuff would get licensed a LOT quicker, and more would be brought over, if the anime market grew more. How can it grow? Buy those DVD's people. Just look at how manga is constantly expanding......... it's because people buy it [I'm happy that manga bootlegging, while a problem, isn't as rampant, though that's more because people prefer reading actual books] |
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