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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 3326
Location: Bloomington, MN
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 Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:25 am |
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| The Terminators are a more realistic proposition, but even that isn't very realistic. Unless they can come up with armor that can counteract modern ammunition the legs of the Gundam would be nothing but a hinderance. Especially since the sensitive equipment required to make a vehicle of that size balance on two legs and move at that speed would make a shot in those legs just that much more devastating. They'd be better off securing treads and making tanks more damageproof as it's a lot easier to to armor treads than legs. |
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2513
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:27 am |
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yeah. The thing to consider ofcourse before asking "is it possible to make a Gundam" is "is a gundam actually an effective weapon in real life?"
If you could truely dublicate a Gundam, I would say yes. However, what makes them effective is not their distinctive features (infact they would probably be effective despite those features.) What would make them effective is that they essentially compine the benefits and eliminate the weaknesses of a tank and a helicopter/gunship (and perhaps even a fighter depending on what Gundams you look at). They have the armor (moreso even) of a tank and do not constantly remain airborne creating a danger of crashing. However they have the mobility (again, moreso even) of a helicopter or fighter. They also have superior weapons to all kinds of currently existing technology.
Their unique atributes however provide minimal benefit at best. Their legs are mildly useful in allowing it to cross dificult terain unsuited for wheels and treads without actually needing to fly. (I could see that being somewhat useful for jungle warfare. ie. 08th MS team.) Undoubtedly though, a quadropedal design (ie. Ghost in the Shell) would be vastly more stable and effective that a bipedal one. It also saves the needless elongating of the design which essentially creates a massive target. Military vehicles should always be made as flat and small as possible to minimize the target. The arms give a mild boost to the ease of aiming weapons. A simpler swiveling turret would likely be just as effective. Held weapons rather than mounted ones are a liability and offer no benefit.
If they are capable of duplicating the armor they ought to just put it on a regular tank. If they are capable of duplicating the weapons they ought to just put them on pretty much anything. If they are capable of creating a vehicle with the mobility of Gundams that can still carry heavy armor theres no reason to tack it on to a humanoid design. For that matter, even if you can just duplicate that kind of mobility and movement, forgeting the armor, its would be more effective without the humanoid design.
A somewhat more realistic possibility of the next step in the evolution of tanks would again be the tanks from Ghost in the Shell.
Also, theres the entirely different question of Gundams as weapons in space. (at which point the idea of them having legs becomes a total joke.) Thats really rather irrellevant though since I don't think anyone is considering them for that purpose. |
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Gundam Junkie
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Great Britain; with an emphisis on Great
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:51 am |
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I have done some thinking about the possibility of a real-life mobile suit.
Personally, while the idea of an 18-metre mechanical man is implausible, I don’t think it’s entirely impossible.
Mechanics: Joint mechanisms shouldn’t be too much of a problem.
Taking inspiration from the human skeletal and muscle structure is a good idea, and modifying existing mechanical systems.
Materials: If such machines are to be like anything near 18 metres, it’s going to need to be built from seriously tough materials.
I have no idea just how strong Titanium is, so I don’t know if it’s a viable material.
Of course, that’s just the main structure. Gods knows what they will do about armour.
Taking the structure and the machines’ armour plating into consideration… we are talking some serious weight here! (I can’t even imagine how much these will weigh).
Piloting and internal systems: Such a complex machine is going to need some intensive AI just to keep the thing stable and to move it, let alone fight on a battlefield.
Balance is also going to be a key issue for designers, which has already been mentioned.
Locking the legs’ joints would be essential when the machine is standing still to prevent it from tipping over when inactive.
It is very likely that a person would need the equivalent of a Coordinator’s abilities to pilot the machine effectively.
Power: What would such a machine run on? Surely not petroleum or any other fossil fuel.
(Given the timeframe I doubt we’ll have any left anyway).
Nuclear power is feasible but there is the issue of radiation spillage and the radioactive waste.
Batteries maybe? (Very big and power intensive batteries. No Duracell could power such a beast).
Cost: The biggest issue I think.
I’ve seen how much a single jet fighter costs today, so just think how much these things are going to cost!
Only the super rich countries could even afford to produce them, and even then they would probably only be made in very small amounts such as a single squadron.
These are just the main issues for designing a mobile suit in my opinion.
There are others such as combat effectivness (which has been covered) and whether it will be used for ground or space-based warfare.
Given the weight I would imagine it is best used in space.
It would be interesting to see these giant, mechanical weapons stomping across the battlefield, but I have to agree with ikillchicken about the usfulness of such a machine.
Ultimately, they may just not be feasible. |
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hentai4me
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1312
Location: England. Robin is so Cute!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:42 am |
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I'd say a far more likely method would be to make the armoured suit just that, a suit of normal human proportions that a normal person puts on. Basically a completely body encompassing suit of armour with all sorts of useful features like in built thermal sensors, night vision, target trackers, radios, HUD's, impact, bullet and piercing proof (or as close as possible) layers, cameras, likely with mechanically assisted joints and the like to make moving with it on easier.
Think of the equipment that a special forces soldier is often portrayed as carrying, all that built into a fully enclosing bullet/shrapnel/blast/etc resistant suit.
Building a gundam is absurd, look at modern tanks, well equipped, supported and deployed infantry can deal with tanks so why not a gundam as well. Any enhancement in armour is likely to be matched by an enhancement in weaponry, modern tanks are hard as nails but far from immune to modern weapons, why would a massive 18 foot tall walking machine be any more resistant? |
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Fallout2man
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 271
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:55 am |
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| ikillchicken wrote: | yeah. The thing to consider ofcourse before asking "is it possible to make a Gundam" is "is a gundam actually an effective weapon in real life?"
If you could truely dublicate a Gundam, I would say yes. However, what makes them effective is not their distinctive features (infact they would probably be effective despite those features.) What would make them effective is that they essentially compine the benefits and eliminate the weaknesses of a tank and a helicopter/gunship (and perhaps even a fighter depending on what Gundams you look at). They have the armor (moreso even) of a tank and do not constantly remain airborne creating a danger of crashing. However they have the mobility (again, moreso even) of a helicopter or fighter. They also have superior weapons to all kinds of currently existing technology.
Their unique atributes however provide minimal benefit at best. Their legs are mildly useful in allowing it to cross dificult terain unsuited for wheels and treads without actually needing to fly. (I could see that being somewhat useful for jungle warfare. ie. 08th MS team.) Undoubtedly though, a quadropedal design (ie. Ghost in the Shell) would be vastly more stable and effective that a bipedal one. It also saves the needless elongating of the design which essentially creates a massive target. Military vehicles should always be made as flat and small as possible to minimize the target. The arms give a mild boost to the ease of aiming weapons. A simpler swiveling turret would likely be just as effective. Held weapons rather than mounted ones are a liability and offer no benefit.
If they are capable of duplicating the armor they ought to just put it on a regular tank. If they are capable of duplicating the weapons they ought to just put them on pretty much anything. If they are capable of creating a vehicle with the mobility of Gundams that can still carry heavy armor theres no reason to tack it on to a humanoid design. For that matter, even if you can just duplicate that kind of mobility and movement, forgeting the armor, its would be more effective without the humanoid design.
A somewhat more realistic possibility of the next step in the evolution of tanks would again be the tanks from Ghost in the Shell.
Also, theres the entirely different question of Gundams as weapons in space. (at which point the idea of them having legs becomes a total joke.) Thats really rather irrellevant though since I don't think anyone is considering them for that purpose. |
I'll agree with most of this, but with one small nitpick, held weapons do have one advantage, they are easily replacable and switchable during and after combat; they are also far more modular and can be designed to interoperate between many different types of units.
During battle you can't easily, as of right now, change the turret on a tank to something else, nor could you change a type of missile launcher or other hardpointed weapon. While a held weapon does have some disadvantages there are many more advantages in my opinion, both from a combat and economic perspective.
In the end though, as you already said, the bipedal design and huge target offered would probably make a gundam rather useless compared to other military vehicles. Still, it would be cool to have a real-life replica of wing zero, complete with neo bird mode. |
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2513
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:34 pm |
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Thats true. I was thinking more in battle. If you can build a machine that can even carry multiple weapons, you mostlikely can just mount them all ready to fire too. Also, I would again think simply creating alot more modular easilly exchangable weapons systems would be far simpler and provide the same benefit.
It would undoubtedly be cool though. |
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