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Porcupine
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
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 Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:50 pm |
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| calawain wrote: | | There should be laws against companies making bad business decisions? ADV Manga's problems were due mostly to their own actions...The government isn't there to make sure every company makes a profit and hold their hand. What kind of laws would you propose? |
The fansub issue is a different issue so I won't comment on it here, it's too off topic. ADV Manga's "death" is also slightly off topic (but not as much) so I apologize to everyone for bringing it up.
What I recommend in this case is a law stating that when a company is selling a product consisting of multiple "pieces" that you buy separately...that there be laws forcing that company to eventually produce and sell all the pieces (no matter if their first "piece" was unprofitable). Or, laws that force the company to pay a massive fine for failure to finish releasing all the "pieces" and thus a "usable" product. Or, laws that require the company to allow unsatisfied customers to return their purchased incomplete "pieces" for a refund.
This is not an unreasonable law and I'm sure there are regulatory laws similar to this one for various other industries out there.
This sort of law would probably be unpopular with business owners, but popular with consumers. Overall, for the good of the industry, I think a law like this is a good thing.
Think what would happen if every company decided to follow suit. What if ADVision started canceling its less popular anime DVD series' whenever they felt like it, too. In the short run they might profit, but in the long run everyone would get pissed at them. If they keep such bad habits up with regularity, they will eventually go out of business. If two or three different licensing studios adopt the same habits, the whole industry will collapse (which is actually a danger right now, as 2 major studios have already adopted these habits).
The government isn't there to make sure businesses make profit. Arguably, it isn't there to make sure customers get what they paid for, either. But it IS there to provide a working link between sellers and buyers, to foster trade and interaction between people, and to create a positive economic environment. |
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HitokiriShadow
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 4908
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:40 am |
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| So you want laws that force companies to continue doing something that is loosing them money. That is utterly absurd. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:51 am |
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| Porcupine wrote: |
This is not an unreasonable law and I'm sure there are regulatory laws similar to this one for various other industries out there.
This sort of law would probably be unpopular with business owners, but popular with consumers. Overall, for the good of the industry, I think a law like this is a good thing. |
You seem to be under the impression that you and a bunch of other internet nerds being mad about something is a totally awful consequence of some company doing something that "should be illegal but isn't!!!"
You also appear to believe that every time you encounter something you don't like or don't personally agree with, you think laws should be put in place to prevent it from ever happening again, regardless of how ridiculous, irrational or frankly downright stupid and nonsensical your reaction is. |
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 2517
Location: Vancouver - Go Canucks Go!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:08 am |
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I don't want to dogpile on Porcupine here, but perhaps its worth explaining in more detail why this is a really bad idea. I can understand that its frustrating to see situations like this. It is bad buisness for companies to get in these situations. However think about what you are suggesting. Even if we forget the whole issue of wether the government could legally force companies to take such actions, consider the results.
At best you are forcing them to waste their time and resources preventing them from maybe releasing something more profitable. At worst it would force companies to continue releasing something even if they're taking a major loss and at the same time make them waste time and resources.
The result would likely be companies being much less likely to take risks and only releasing stuff they are sure they will finish. This stuff would undoubtably be released in the first place though. So the only actual effect is companies never giving less popular titles a chance in the first place. This does far more damage to companies than they could likely ever do to themselves. You are trying to protect them from their own mistakes it seems, but in the way you would have it you really have just made the impact of those mistakes worse.
The problem is that you've really only thought this through to the point of how it will effect customers. Its actually a bit ironic becuase it would be the exact same situation you described except for the customers as by only looking at one side, you only look short term. In the short term, yeah you'll get your manga. But in the long term it will greatly increase strain on companies and may end up putting many of them flat out of buisness at which point we see more situations like the one with Geneon but worse. Before you say that something should be law, you really ought to think it all the way through.
If you're really this bothered by incomplete releases, maybe don't buy a series until the whole thing has been released. Its either that, or accept the risk that you could end up not getting to see the ending. |
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Porcupine
Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:24 pm |
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Hitokiri, note that I also said that it would be acceptable to just have a law that required for the company to accept "returns" on products from canceled, incomplete series. That would not force the company to "continue losing money", only be responsible for what they've done and return the money they've arguably stolen from any dissatisfied customers.
| ikillchicken wrote: | The result would likely be companies being much less likely to take risks and only releasing stuff they are sure they will finish. So the only actual effect is companies never giving less popular titles a chance in the first place.
The problem is that you've really only thought this through to the point of how it will effect customers.
If you're really this bothered by incomplete releases, maybe don't buy a series until the whole thing has been released. Its either that, or accept the risk that you could end up not getting to see the ending. |
I have thought this thing through from the point of view of the industry as a whole, not from the customer's point of view. However, I'm not certain that my suggestions would really help the industry. I think they would, but I could be wrong.
I 90% agree with your first quoted paragraph. That is mainly what I think will happen also. However, I am not certain that it's such a bad thing. It would be preferrable to companies abandoning titles any time they feel like it (which is not the point we are at yet, but if it gets there I guarantee it will be disastrous). I also think that the "result" could include other positive phenomena as well, such as the companies marketing their products better, etc.
As to your last paragraph, there is one other option open to me and any other dissatisfied customers. Simply stop buying anything from companies which have betrayed me, or stop buying anime altogether, and start pirating everything. Permanently losing anime fans who actually used to pay for things is really bad for the anime industry. |
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Greed1914
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 617
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:39 am |
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| Zac wrote: | | Porcupine wrote: |
I guess $2 per episode is industry standard pricing, that is good info. But the decision is still up to us consumers as individuals to decide for ourselves if that's a good price or not relative to the DVDs. |
I guess it's just a little disheartening when we finally see some progress in the digital domain like this and the instant response is to complain about the price and the format. This is a good step forward for the industry and something other companies should also be doing. The more people we have offering digital downloads like this, the better, as it's a system that has proven to be successful. |
I agree totally. $2 for an episode is pretty reasonable considering that it does take time, money, and effort to make episodes available. Personally, extras aren't really an issue for me which is why thinpacks are my thing, but I definitely applaud ADV for even trying. Price is always going to be a problem when people can find it elsewhere for free, but good for ADV for trying to make a legal way to download. |
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