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NEWS: Only First 3 Episodes of Gurren Lagann to be Streamed


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ruro niko



Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 108
Location: Tennessee
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 6:58 pm Reply with quote
While I understand reasoning behind it, I would prefer that it had been the whole series release. That is what they eventually need to do: air series completely online fairly soon after the Japanese release. If they're worried that people will go back and watch it whenever, take episodes off after they've been up a month or something.

People will still buy the DVDs. If people buy the DVDs to TV series that they watch, they'll do the same thing with anime.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 3870
Location: Fresno, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:13 pm Reply with quote
i hope this wasn't decided based on the web-stream popularity, cause i can't imagine what they hope to gain. once the three episodes are done, people are just gonna go over to the other video sites and watch it. maybe viewer response will make them change their mind.
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Kiriska



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Very disappointed to hear this. I've been recommended the series from just about everyone I know and had been looking forward to see it streaming and legally for once. Bugger. :/
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Emerje
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Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4789
Location: Maine
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:55 pm Reply with quote
biolizard_alpha wrote:
DonQuigleone wrote:
I hope episode 4 is redone for dvd release, does anyone know?


It's not. Why would it have been?


Because it caused a riot on 2ch, lead to the resignation of a Gainax co-founder, and forced "statements of regret" from that same co-founder and a production staffer. That's why.

tempest wrote:
One thing I can tell you about this "about face" on ADV's part in relation to GL, is that they really did want to present the entire series for free online. It just worked out that it wasn't feasible for them to do it in the end. It's a pity, but their intentions were there. Hopefully we'll get the full monty on another series soon enough.


Now, let me see if I got this right. This wasn't a clerical error, a miscommunication, or a misinterpretation of any kind on your part. This was actually a case of ADV announcing one thing and then changing their mind a few days later? That's an awfully low blow, it's like they didn't realize how big the fan base was before and changed their mind when they started seeing stronger dollar potential.

Oh well, I'm eagerly waiting for the DVDs myself. I just hope that this convinces them to give us some really great extras and a nice artbox as they've been skimping on the details which isn't very promising.

Emerje
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boznia



Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:24 am Reply with quote
Well three is better than zero I guess. I liked what I saw in the first episode, so they got my attention. But for me, someone who only buys 2 to 3 box sets a year, more episodes would have given them more sway over where my dollar goes. If they had shown say, half the series, and I enjoyed it, they would have no doubt been guaranteed my money, instead of competing with a few other shows. Still, they didn't have to show anything, and if it was only their intention to increase exposure of the series, they achieved their goal.
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shadow_Hiei



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:34 am Reply with quote
The idiots hope the compete with piracy by only streaming the first few episodes online?

The only way that they're going to be able to compete with piracy is if they...

1. License shows before they air

2. Stream them online on the same day or before the original broadcast, before the subbers have a chance to, so that they're the first to release it

3. Stream the whole series for free

This preview crap isn't going to work.
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tempest
ANN Editor in Chief


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 7058
Location: Montreal
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:37 am Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:

Now, let me see if I got this right. This wasn't a clerical error, a miscommunication, or a misinterpretation of any kind on your part. This was actually a case of ADV announcing one thing and then changing their mind a few days later? That's an awfully low blow, it's like they didn't realize how big the fan base was before and changed their mind when they started seeing stronger dollar potential.


No, no, no...

They wanted to, and then events unfolded that made it impossible for them. They still wish they could.

-t
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Cetus-kun



Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 138
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:58 am Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
Emerje wrote:

Now, let me see if I got this right. This wasn't a clerical error, a miscommunication, or a misinterpretation of any kind on your part. This was actually a case of ADV announcing one thing and then changing their mind a few days later? That's an awfully low blow, it's like they didn't realize how big the fan base was before and changed their mind when they started seeing stronger dollar potential.


No, no, no...

They wanted to, and then events unfolded that made it impossible for them. They still wish they could.

-t


Why exactly weren't they able to? Did GAINAX have a hand in it?
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 787
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:08 am Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
Emerje wrote:

Now, let me see if I got this right. This wasn't a clerical error, a miscommunication, or a misinterpretation of any kind on your part. This was actually a case of ADV announcing one thing and then changing their mind a few days later? That's an awfully low blow, it's like they didn't realize how big the fan base was before and changed their mind when they started seeing stronger dollar potential.


No, no, no...

They wanted to, and then events unfolded that made it impossible for them. They still wish they could.

-t


Hmm, fascinating. I can only interpret your statement in a few ways:

1. ADV thought it had the rights to stream the entire show online, but in fact it did not and either their own lawyers or GAINAX decided to call them on it.
2. ADV had the rights to stream the entire show, but GAINAX didn't want them to and played serious hard ball to convince ADV not to; i.e. "If you continue to stream the entire show we will refuse to renew your EVA license next time it's up"
3. The anime-network branch of ADV wanted to stream the entire show, but the DVD releasing side of ADV didn't realize what they were really doing until 2 days after it was announced and then they seriously put their foot down and forced the anime network people to change plans/
4. There was some fundamental technical problem with their streaming site that prevents them from streaming the whole show for some reason.

Any of these 4 reasons are really really giant boneheaded moves.

Reason #1 implies that ADV didn't know the content of their own license contracts. You can't get much more stupid than that. Were all their lawyers on Holiday?

Reason #2 means that they didn't even consult with the Japanese licensor beforehand (dumb), and that GAINAX is completely shortsighted.

Reason #3 is maybe the worst of the bunch, as it implies a significant split within ADV itself, where the online/VOD group is actively fighting with the original DVD sales part over how to do business. If their internal communication is so poor that nobody knew what was really being planned until 2 days AFTER it's publicly announced, I wonder how much longer the company can even function?

Reason #4 seems doubtful, but I suppose that their streaming site might simply not be able to handle the traffic, and is designed in a way which is not easily expandable. So it was either a choice of "stream the whole show and have no one able to watch anything", or "stream a few episodes and hope we can fix things later". Other possibilities is that there is some fatal bug in the adobe flash player code that would allow stream ripping and ADV found out about it and decided it couldn't stream the whole show because the video wouldn't be "secure" enough. That would be a really really dumb thing to do, as full R2 dvd rips are already available if you know where to look.


So in any case, no matter which of these 4 reasons it was (I can't imagine it was something else), ADV just shot themselves in the foot big-time, and took all of the good press they had and blew it up. GJGJGJGJGJ.... 死め
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Richard J.
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:18 am Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
Reason #1 implies that ADV didn't know the content of their own license contracts. You can't get much more stupid than that. Were all their lawyers on Holiday?
Something to keep in mind is that Japan has some pretty intense copyright laws and ADV's got to deal with a lot of different people when releasing a series, especially through an online showing. Plus, have you ever seen how long and esoterically worded a contract is? I have. (Not a licensing contract, but similar legal documents) Some can be quite difficult to read, even for a lawyer.

Then you have to factor in the fact that essentially anyone important on either side changing their mind about even a minor detail can derail the whole damn thing. Basically, nothing in the corporate world is a sure thing until it's already been done. There are too many people who have power over the whole thing, especially in Japan with the way their copyright laws are set up. They've got some great pluses, but the negatives are pretty severe when dealing with modern technology.
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:25 am Reply with quote
Well, its disapointing but at least they did intend to stream it all. Plus they said they intend to stream all of future anime. Thats a very good sign. I would sure love to know why they are unable to show all of this since it would help us know if this will be a potentially recurring problem or not.

Tempest:

Would I be correct in gathering from your post that you know what happened but can't tell us?

If so, could you at least tell us whether it is something that is likely to happen again, or is it specifically a problem with Gurren Lagann?

LordRobin wrote:
One of the most popular arguments in favor of fansubs is that it's unreasonable to expect people to drop money on a new series without being able to sample it to see if they like it. Well, you got your free taste. If you want more, it's time to pay up.

------RM


But people who genuinely "preview" with fansubs are also buying DVDs. (If not, they are just full of it and aren't really using them for previews at all.) If fansubs are causing a problem it is because of people who wont buy ever because they are either just unwilling to pay ever or unwilling to wait plus won't buy if they've already seen it.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 787
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:30 am Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
samuelp wrote:
Reason #1 implies that ADV didn't know the content of their own license contracts. You can't get much more stupid than that. Were all their lawyers on Holiday?
Something to keep in mind is that Japan has some pretty intense copyright laws and ADV's got to deal with a lot of different people when releasing a series, especially through an online showing. Plus, have you ever seen how long and esoterically worded a contract is? I have. (Not a licensing contract, but similar legal documents) Some can be quite difficult to read, even for a lawyer.

Then you have to factor in the fact that essentially anyone important on either side changing their mind about even a minor detail can derail the whole damn thing. Basically, nothing in the corporate world is a sure thing until it's already been done. There are too many people who have power over the whole thing, especially in Japan with the way their copyright laws are set up. They've got some great pluses, but the negatives are pretty severe when dealing with modern technology.


The issue isn't whether license contracts are complicated or hard to make. That's a given, and who knows how many times the complex compyright stuff has screwed with releases in R1. But the issue at hand is that ADV really THOUGHT they had everything settled properly, but they im fact didn't.
ADV isn't a small player in the R1 market. They should know EXACTLY what they have secured the rights for and what they haven't yet. And the Gurren Lagann license was done recently, so I'm sure it specifically addresses online distribution.

Now, perhaps the contract was worded poorly, and ADV's "interpretation" was different than the Japanese companies. Then that's still ADV's fault because they should make sure their license contracts are completely completely unambiguous in order to prevent exactly these types of debacles.

(In any case, I don't think this is the real reason. I'm betting it was reason number 3: internal conflict in ADV itself)
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PlatinumHawke



Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:04 am Reply with quote
shadow_Hiei wrote:
The idiots hope the compete with piracy by only streaming the first few episodes online?

The only way that they're going to be able to compete with piracy is if they...


Compared to not showing anything at all, this is an actual step forward, as opposed to sitting around and letting everything rot.

shadow_Hiei wrote:
1. License shows before they air


How many series in recent years have been licensed before they aired? All I can remember is Ghost in the Shell and L'Chaveler. A few threads back, someone with better knowledge than either of us said that most licensors don't look at series until they're a few episodes into their run. Why licence something that will run straight into the ground shortly off the marks?

shadow_Hiei wrote:
2. Stream them online on the same day or before the original broadcast, before the subbers have a chance to, so that they're the first to release it


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't even think the Japanese stream their anime (if it gets streamed at all) before it airs on TV. Then we have the logistics of getting the whole subbing part co-ordinated because it undoubtably done outside of Japan.

Also depending on their connections (in both senses of the word), speed sub groups can knock out a release in mere hours.

shadow_Hiei wrote:
3. Stream the whole series for free


YouTube is doing this one quite well right now. Plus "for free" means that companies wouldn't see any income unless they crammed the site full of advertisements for junk of all sorts. We all know how much people love ads on websites.

Most of these ideas to 'fix' the industry have already been tossed around to death.

Honestly I'd like to see a streaming service, charged on a per download/monthly/yearly basis with the option to buy DVDs (or digital media, if that's your preference) at a slightly discounted rate. Sounds like a win-win to me, companies make profits and the buyer has an incentive to own something.

Of course, regardless of whatever plan is implemented, it all comes down to whether people will actually pay for something that's given them countless hours of entertainment.
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tempest
ANN Editor in Chief


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 7058
Location: Montreal
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:56 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:

Would I be correct in gathering from your post that you know what happened but can't tell us?


Unfortunately my position as a news editor became heavily compromised a while back. I know a lot more than I can tell you guys about a lot of things.

Yes, this is one of them.

One of the reasons I'm no longer ANN's news editor.

-t
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 787
Location: Tokyo, Japan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:43 am Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
ikillchicken wrote:

Would I be correct in gathering from your post that you know what happened but can't tell us?


Unfortunately my position as a news editor became heavily compromised a while back. I know a lot more than I can tell you guys about a lot of things.

Yes, this is one of them.

One of the reasons I'm no longer ANN's news editor.

-t


It's true... your affair with John Ledford is none of our business.
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