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championferret
Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 385
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 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:38 am |
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Benefit of doubt? (I totally missed the Tool/Toole thing, by the way  oops) Although maybe they were just retaliating? After all, Toole's actions could easily be interpreted as a 'personal attack' to some people. |
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Dargonxtc
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4153
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:43 am |
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| Leebo wrote: | | Firstly, his named is Toole, not Tool. And "tool" is a common insult. He may have just misspelled Toole's name |
Yeah, but it was used twice in this thread in that manner. At one point saying something to the effect of "I know it's Toole, but I am calling it Tool because that's what he is".
I think whoever wrote that has changed it though. |
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Leebo
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 179
Location: Connecticut
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:44 am |
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I suppose, if you take the idea that people are rubbed the wrong way by it, but at the same time Toole doesn't mention anyone single viewer personally, which is required for it to be a personal attack. But now it's just turning into a niggling semantics issue.  |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:12 am |
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| championferret wrote: | | Benefit of doubt? (I totally missed the Tool/Toole thing, by the way oops) Although maybe they were just retaliating? After all, Toole's actions could easily be interpreted as a 'personal attack' to some people. |
Please stop arguing the point. You've made it very clear that you don't like the segment, everyone who has read your comments on the issue understands. You don't need to defend people making obvious cheap personal attacks.
The politeness rules are not up for debate regardless and if we decide something crosses the line, it does. Please continue discussing the ANNtv show and let this matter rest. |
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penguintruth
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 2490
Location: Penguinopolis
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:13 am |
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| The ANN staff shouldn't have to justify Toole's segment with "he was only kidding" or "it's not meant to be taken seriously". If people don't have a sense of humor about their taste in cartoons, especially moe titles, they perhaps they shouldn't go to ANN. Not every review can be a good one, not everything can be accolades for everything you enjoy. They would lose integrity of they just gave a blanket positive response to everything. And as you may or may not have noticed, not everyone on the staff is of the same opinion about everything. It's good to have somebody like Toole who can be abrasively honest about how he feels about a title, even if you disagree with him. My problem is anyone on staff apologizing in any way or having to follow it up with a "Lighten up!" If somebody doesn't already know how to do that, that's their own problem. |
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vtnwesley
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Natrona Heights, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:57 am |
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| Zac wrote: | | This is too close to a personal attack. Please review our politeness and courtesy rules before posting again. |
I apologize and it won't happen again.
| championferret wrote: | | Benefit of doubt? (I totally missed the Tool/Toole thing, by the way oops) Although maybe they were just retaliating? After all, Toole's actions could easily be interpreted as a 'personal attack' to some people. |
No worries. To clarify, it was rather intentional and perhaps too snarky. Regardless, If someone says something "Confusing" enough that it "MIGHT" be a violation, then it's as good as a violation. Mr. Toole (got the "e" this time) isn't attacking anything/anyone. All in good fun for the most part I'd say. My patience is just fleeting in this age of Family Guys and Sarah Silvermans, and I take seriously the development of my favorite things. My problem, not Zac's. Completely understandable. I'm receptive to authority. |
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Paploo
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:10 am |
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| championferret wrote: | | After all, Toole's actions could easily be interpreted as a 'personal attack' to some people. |
Oh Noes! Geez people, take a chill pill. Mike has written for Animerica and other print magazines, ran an anime site since the 90's that was often used for packaging quotes, and if you think his opinions can be interpreted as a "personal attack", you need to get a life. There's a lot worse out there on the internet then a humourous review. And was Mike's review even all that negative? He did point out the excellent setting and animation.
It's too bad AnimeJump is down, as there's a number of even funnier reviews there then the one ANN just posted.......
I also find something odd about finding fault with a review questioning the artistic integrity of something you probably downloaded from the internet [which doesn't exactly show a lot of respect for artistic integrity/value of Kanon itself on a given fan's part.....]
Anyhoo, I guess the overall lesson is-
-don't take cartoons too seriously
-don't take yourself too seriously
-don't accept Jam from bugeyed girls when everyone who eats it gets amnesia or is adorably diseased. |
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kurotsuki
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:35 am |
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nice episode , I really liked the Anime Jump Show segment review of Kanon xD .
Just wondering , I watched the first part on Itunes and had no problems , but during the Anime Jump Show segment , the Audio was not correctly sync to the video , and I was wondering if I was the only one who had this problem , maybe it's my Itunes acting up .
I went to watch the rest here , to see if it was the video itself , but the audio was well synched . |
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Moomintroll
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1007
Location: Nottingham (UK)
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:00 am |
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Anyone know if the Anime Jump site is archived anywhere (or likely to be revived at some point)?
I never realised how much I used it until it was gone... |
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Furudanuki
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1004
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:51 pm |
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| penguintruth wrote: | | The ANN staff shouldn't have to justify Toole's segment with "he was only kidding" or "it's not meant to be taken seriously". If people don't have a sense of humor about their taste in cartoons, especially moe titles, they perhaps they shouldn't go to ANN. |
Bold emphasis is mine.
Perhaps you would like to expand on exactly why you feel people who enjoy "moe titles" should require a thicker skin than fans of other varieties of anime on order to have a voice and be welcome here? I'm quite aware that moe is currently being presented as the whipping boy for everything from the imminent collapse of the anime industry to the heartbreak of psoriasis, and quite possibly playing a major role in global warming and the end of life as we know it. However, I was not aware that the climate here on ANN had reached the point where those fans are essentially second class citizens who best not get too uppity if they know what's best for them. If that is the case then I will not require an invitation to leave, thank you kindly.
And for the record, as my posting history clearly shows I do not make a habit of taking ANN's reviewers to task for their opinions. There have been scathing reviews of shows I have liked, and favorable reviews of shows I considered grossly inferior. But this is the first time I have honestly felt that someone has stepped completely over the line in what was presented as a "review". As I indicated in my previous post I have a problem with calling what Mr. Toole does a "review", not with the fact that ANN provided him with a platform. Because, in my opinion, being unabashedly prejudiced from the outset - "the specter that haunts Japan and the US" - then cherry-picking material and presenting it in a manner designed to reinforce said prejudice is far more akin to a hatchet-job than a review. And waving it off as "sarcastic humor" doesn't change that. |
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sunflower
 Subscriber
Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:32 pm |
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I loved the Anime Jump addition. Video reviews of anime are so much more helpful to me than print reviews since we see samples of the show. I'd actually feel no need to watch anymore of either of those two series/movies before deciding if I should buy the (no/yes, though I guess I can't for Alakazam  ).
Toole's sense of humor just made it all the more fun to watch. Reviews are supposed to be the reviewer communicating his opinion about something, which Toole did well and with wit, so I think it was a good job.
BTW, was anyone else mesmerized by Ellie's pendant? It was big and shiny and flashed whenever she took a breath and I forgot to listen to what she was saying... |
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Ojamajo LimePie
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:35 pm |
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| Leebo wrote: | | I suppose, if you take the idea that people are rubbed the wrong way by it, but at the same time Toole doesn't mention anyone single viewer personally, which is required for it to be a personal attack. |
I don't know, saying moe fans are all "losers who have no chance of dating in high school" sounds an awful lot like an attack to me. Maybe not a 'personal' attack, since it targets a group, but an attack none the less. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 4298
Location: Death Star Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:38 pm |
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| Ojamajo LimePie wrote: |
I don't know, saying moe fans are all "losers who have no chance of dating in high school" sounds an awful lot like an attack to me. Maybe not a 'personal' attack, since it targets a group, but an attack none the less. |
It's a moot point. Our new politeness rules apply to the forums only. I'm not going to censor or constrain our front page content, that would be irresponsible. I'm sorry you feel personally offended by a generalization, but if the suggestion here is that we should censor Mike, it's not going to happen. |
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v1cious
Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 3870
Location: Fresno, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:36 pm |
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| this mike guy needs to be on more. i really enjoyed his segment. |
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Alexander Morou
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:56 pm |
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Why is everyone getting bent out of shape about Mike Toole's segment?
If anyone paid attention, they mentioned up front that he's sarcastic; he mentioned up front that he's not moe for moe. Which tells you right there that the following statements are purely subjective in nature. He even shouted, unprofessionally, 'She's got a $## sword!'
That people can only see part of what is in front of them baffles me, and then thinking that they can use the parts of what they saw as a clear grounds for an argument is even more bewildering. When you argue something, present your evidence in its various forms. The people who mentioned that they didn't like Mike Toole's segment, had no valid grounds to call for the silencing of Mike Toole. The very fact that his statements were subjective, means that any response to such would be subjective as well (Agree or Disagree, That's opinion). His review was clearly meant to humor you. That it did not, is your choice to make. Jokes often use stereotypes to make their subjective points, and those points are either seen as humorous or offensive. Did you watch his first show and get offended? Move on. Don't like what he has to say? Don't listen.
Everyone is entitled to submit their opinion on the matter in a professional, courteous manner; sling insults in a way that can be seen as anything but funny, and you cross the line. If you think Mike's segment should be terminated, present a reason other than: I did not like, or I did not agree with, what he had to say.
Beyond that, animated backgrounds are nice, but could you guys handle the insertion of your news casters a little better? It looks like an old movie in how they used to badly paste characters on an obviously superimposed background. It'd be better if you used a large television screen with the animation playing behind them (since a projector clearly would not have worked, lest the animation looks good on clothes). While I agree that might be a tall (expensive? timely?) order, it just looks a bit dated, even though it's new. |
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