Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan's Planned Child Porn Law Exempts Manga, Anime
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dtm42 Posts: 3188 Location: NZ. 35% of the way to where I want to be. |
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| Let us not forget, Anime is made by the Japanese for the Japanese. Even if both studies mentioned were of the same quality, then the Japanese are going to go off the basis of a study done in their own country. And the conclusion of that study that easy access to pornography - especially child pornography - has reduced rapes and paedophilia cases in Japan.
I hate the whole idea of lolicon, and the majority of hentai is vile. But if it means that potential criminals are getting sexual relief from drawings, instead of going out and raping or sexually abusing women and children, then I have to admit that it should stay. And that is hopefully all I will say on that matter. |
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| child of Lilith Posts: 99 Location: Egg of Lilith ( the black moon) |
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| If anyone really believes banning porn will solve anything is a fool. All that will happen is you will create a laundry list of problems that didn’t exist before and exacerbate already existing problems. Taking away something people want will only make them want it even more. This is a basic tenet of human behavior; anyone over the age of five should be well aware of this fact. | ||||||
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britannicamoore Subscriber Posts: 2355 Location: Detroit, MI. Or should I say Mt. Pleasant, MI? I live in a hand. |
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| Good. I'm glad even they could tell the difference between real people and drawings.
If KNJ is lisecned again I think I would cry. |
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| Patachu ANN Reviewer  Posts: 1253 Location: San Diego |
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Of happiness? |
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penguintruth Posts: 2497 Location: Penguinopolis |
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There is no third position, sorry. You fall into position one. Whether you think lolicon is in poor taste is irrelevant. You either think drawings are real people or aren't. You should want to protect drawings as a right of speech or expression, regardless of whether you find them repugnant or not. Otherwise, it's like you're saying that TV shows you like should be shown uncut, but shows you dislike should be edited so that it doesn't make you look bad for liking TV. It's stupid. |
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| sargon Posts: 4 |
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This. Penguintruth I can't speak for moonintroll but I think he was just stating his opinion of animated/virtual CP not that some is real and some isn't. |
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| Patches Posts: 22 |
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| Regardless of the bans on material we put in place, there are always going to be perverts who get aroused at the idea of molesting a minor. Lolicon, while disturbing, is still a victimless release for these people to engage in to satisfy their perversions. If we ban all fictional outlets for these people, they're just going to start going after the real thing.
If someone is so angry that he wants to kill something, I'd much rather a violent video game be available to him to take his immediate frustrations out on than to make it so his only option for release is to mow down a bunch of people with a semi-automatic. |
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| feytaline Posts: 38 |
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| Honestly, I don't know how I feel about it.
On the one hand, I find lolicon absolutely disgusting and anyone who gets off on child sexuality sick. (Yeah, I'm blunt, deal.) And as much as die-hard lolicon-NOT-pedophilia fans can rant and rave about how it's just art and it's not harming anybody and blah blah blah, they can't prove that there aren't some tiny minority of real, child harming pedos who don't enjoy it (ruining the reputation of lolicon AND anime fans everywhere, just as otakukin and the imbeciles writing death threats with Naruto quotes ruin the reputation of anime fans everywhere). However, I absolutely believe in free speech and freedom of expression. With so many 'how to draw manga' reference books out there, and knowing so many manga style artists personally who just draw out of their heads (and do it well) I doubt that too many are actually looking up child pornography for ref. I also do NOT believe that art is to blame for people's actions, although it CAN AND DOES influence them. If I can be inspired to create from reading a manga, then someone else, lacking self-control, can be inspired to destroy. It works both ways. It's not right and we, a fandom as a whole are not responsible for the actions of one, but it does work both ways. I honestly believe that lolicon is more popular for the cuteness and moe factor than the child/underage factor. I don't think that most of the people posting here are attracted to real children (at least, I sure hope not.) Therefore, my second opinion wins out over the natural repulsion of the first, though that remains my first knee-jerk reaction. |
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| dtm42 Posts: 3188 Location: NZ. 35% of the way to where I want to be. |
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When I first heard the term "lolicon" in passing, I looked it up on the internet. And I got quite the shock. Some of the pictures were incredibly graphic, and my immediate reaction was that of horror. And then anger. And then blatant discrimination. But then I found out about that study in Japan. A year ago, that was. And then I discovered that some people who I respected were into it. And it forced me to rethink my position. I also learnt that there was not a typical lolicon fan. Many fans did not enjoy the sexualisation of children, just merely wanted to watch children on their living room screens. Whether these people are mis-labeled, or a sub-branch, I cannot say, not being an expert. But it is wrong to assume that all lolicon fans will enjoy the uglier side of it. I will never fully accept it. I will forever wish that it would just go away. But, in the meantime, I have learnt to deal with it. I realised that as long as it is done within the bounds of a private home, then it is not hurting anyone. In that context, it is not that much different from pornography. |
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| britannicamooreSubscriber Posts: 2355 Location: Detroit, MI. Or should I say Mt. Pleasant, MI? I live in a hand. |
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Tears of joy sounds a lot better.  It has nothing to do with me being a Pedo, like it was suggested earlier in the thread, I just like the story. |
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| fighterholic Posts: 9194 |
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The story is an interesting one, I agree. Besides the comedy elements that happened towards the beginning of the series, it actually at some points takes a dark turn, in which there could be a slight interest as to what is behind her past. |
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| SonGokuGT Posts: 12 |
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| Well,
I've been a long-time visitor of ANN, but I joined the boards finally! I must say, a couple years back, when I first heard the terms of lolicon and shotacon thrown around in the anime community my first instinct was to look into what the genre was... I must say, I was terrified. I never could've expected that such a thing existed! In my views it is just wrong, regardless... To me it's mind-blowing that Japan allowed the possession of CP up until now, and I'm glad it's been outlawed. As for loli/shota... Aside from my own personal views on it, I'm of the school of thought that it might lead some deranged person to commit a crime against a child. Regardless, you are all doing a great job on points and counterpoints, bringing up freedom of speech and the like. |
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| dormcat Encyclopedia Editor  Posts: 7337 Location: Hsinchu City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Couple years ago, there was a kidnapping case in Taiwan, in which kidnappers ordered hostage's families to drop the ransom in a dumpster. Police surrounded the dumpster cart for a day and saw no one came along to pick up the ransom, then they found it had already been retrieved from a manhole right underneath the dumpster -- exactly the same way in Mel Gibson's Ransom. Maybe we should ban movies and novels with smart criminal methodologies. And news media should not be allowed to report them either, for copycat criminals might learn from them. |
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Moomintroll Posts: 1008 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Er, no. I don't think it's real and I don't advocate banning it. I do find both it and the people who enjoy it to be fairly revolting. Wishing something gone, however, is quite distinct from legislating it gone. I would have thought that was obvious.
a) Free speech gives people the right to offend. It also gives people the right to be vocally offended. There is no contradiction in that. b) I'm not an American and nor am I one of these teenage more-libertarian-than-thou-till-it's-time-to-get-a-real-job internet types that infest this forum so please don't tell me what I should want to protect. I don't feel the need to pretend that I desire free speech in all cases, as much as I might agree that it's a thing worth protecting in general terms. In this instance, I haven't argued for an outright ban (though I certainly wouldn't shed any tears if one were to be enacted) but I have absolutely no problem supporting all sorts of curtailments of free speech - libel and slander laws, copy protection, laws forbidding incitement to riot / murder, age restrictions based on content, restrictions on live-action porn featuring rape, torture, children or animals, laws against shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, restrictions on inappropriate advertising (e.g. advertising cigarettes in a children's magazine) and so on and so forth - so the "all free speech is sacred" thing just doesn't wash with me. Or with most other people outside of anime forums. The rights of individuals are always balanced with the wellbeing of society and debating where to draw the lines is the responsible and mature thing to do - it's not some sort of heresy against an infantile "live free or die" political philosophy. c) You can wish to deny something a platform without wishing to ban it. You can desire that a group of people shut up about something without wanting to ban it. You can argue that something is wrong and shouldn't be supported without wanting to ban it. Your all or nothing argument is fatuous.
Hardly. I haven't actually called for censorship in this instance so the basis of your analogy is flawed to say the least (without even going into the ludicrousness of comparing something as ubiquetous as television with something as niche as anime/manga). Calling for people to show a bit of common sense, self-restraint and consideration for others might be unrealistic given the high proportion of sexually frustrated, socially awkward, emotionally immature loser fanboys inhabiting this hobby but it is hardly the same thing as editing or prohibiting material. |
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| Monster in a box Posts: 474 |
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What a good response. My responding to it will probably discredit it, but I had to say something. And for the sake of making blanket statements like most people in this thread, I think if lolicon is banned furry and guro stuff should also be banned because they might lead people to have sex with animals and then brutally mangle people and...well I'm not entirely sure what comes next there. And real porn should be banned to, because I personally find it much more revolting the vast majority of the time. Though I will grant you that certain art styles hit a little bit close to home in terms of realism, I haven't seen a terrible lot of it. |
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