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NEWS: Japan's Planned Child Porn Law Exempts Manga, Anime


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Rip&Tear



Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:43 pm Reply with quote
mistress_reebi wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
If I take a real live action child porn video and meticulously trace each frame as a drawing and colour it in and do that frame for frame until what I have is basically an animated version of the live action porn, is that animation now not porn?
You're missing the point. If the drawings are from someone's imagination (i.e. not from live child models, child porn, etc.) then there are no real children being exploited, molested or in any way harmed. Therefore, there is no crime other than having a filfthy mind, which I personally don't think should be a crime.



Doc Zone did an excellent documentary on child porn. http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/huntingthepredators/ Studies show people who watch child porn are more likely to rape a child than those who don't watch child porn. (right off of their documentary, you can look at see the evidence for yourself.)So, watching lolihentai (which is child porn since people are being aroused at seeing children in sexual situations) will increase the chances of someone raping a child. In order words, lolihentai can harm children. Also, where do you think the creators of lolihentai get their references? Sure they can imagine it but how many people here tried to draw something, say a hand, and had to look at theirs to see if it looked right? You need references in art. They may be drawings but people are jerking off.

I have a life so I won't be posting much. That's all I have to say for now.

Um no and no.

First off it's a mighty mighty leap from lolicon to real life child molestation and pedophilia. Lolicon cannot make you a pedo in the same way yaoi would make me homosexual.

Also your studies are complete tripe and sensationalist garbage.
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html#data

This study done over a decade or so actually indicate that people who watch porn are less likely to rape. It even finds a negative correlation between the amount of porn in circulation and the rape crimes in japan.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:59 pm Reply with quote
I don't see a problem and anime and manga, the drawn images. I can't stand people who wish to ban fiction. How can you arrest someone for having images of characters who don't even exist? Actual child pornography involves the sexual abuse of real children. That's the real crime.

One thing I heard about, even in a BBC documentary, are the child idols. You have girls I think even as young as 10 posing as models. While on vacation I was in a building in Akihabara and saw one of those stores. I took a quick look and continued walking.

Aside from actual child pornography, I think they should crack down on that. While not outright abuse, it's blatantly exploitive of actual children in a way that is almost obviously sexual. Really, dressing up a 13 year old girl in non-nude but revealing outfits and video taping her? How is there an entire industry of that in Japan? Plus there is one club in Akihabara, this was in the BBC documentary, where businessmen go see a bunch of young girls sing at a club. I think one of them was 12. Creepy. I'm sure there a thin line between this and Morning Masume or say the Mickey Mouse club, but some of these seems to cross that line a good deal.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 2491
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Moomintroll wrote:
I don't feel the need to pretend that I desire free speech in all cases, as much as I might agree that it's a thing worth protecting in general terms.


You either believe in protecting all speech, or none at all. There's no middle ground. Yes, curtailing certain types of speech, such as government secrets, libel, and slander, are necessary for the public good, and you aren't an American, but it's something all people should believe in, regardless of creed or geographical position. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

Since you've already said you don't believe in legislating lolicon, then you actually fall into the catagory of protecting it, whether you like it or not.
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AznJazz



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 80
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow, Kirbyland, Southern California
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:02 pm Reply with quote
Hmm, this is interesting. Let us see how this turns out.
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SonGokuGT



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:20 pm Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
SonGokuGT wrote:
Aside from my own personal views on it, I'm of the school of thought that it might lead some deranged person to commit a crime against a child.

Couple years ago, there was a kidnapping case in Taiwan, in which kidnappers ordered hostage's families to drop the ransom in a dumpster. Police surrounded the dumpster cart for a day and saw no one came along to pick up the ransom, then they found it had already been retrieved from a manhole right underneath the dumpster -- exactly the same way in Mel Gibson's Ransom.

Maybe we should ban movies and novels with smart criminal methodologies. And news media should not be allowed to report them either, for copycat criminals might learn from them.


Very good point... Crimes are committed by people that are not in the right frame of mind and sometimes fiction "inspires" them to do something. But I see your point, and I agree with it.

But like others have said on this thread, people who enjoy that are no better than pedophiles themselves. That's my opinion. Some may come back saying that if I like bank heist movies I'm a thief, but I say that in this case I'm in the right.
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Randompeon



Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:28 pm Reply with quote
While scanning wikipedia for proper info on what "lolicon" actually meant i stumbled upon this section(direct quote from wiki): An argument is that obscene fictional images portray children as sex objects, thereby contributing to child sexual abuse. This argument has been disputed by the claim that there is no scientific basis for that connection, and that restricting sexual expression in drawings or animated games and videos might actually increase the rate of sexual crime by eliminating a harmless outlet for desires that could motivate crime. This is exemplified in a case involving a man, from Virginia who, while arrested after viewing lolicon at a public library, asserted that he had quit collecting real child pornography and switched to lolicon.

Now to me, lolicon in that case had a positive effect.

Another quote: Milton Diamond and Ayako Uchiyama observe a strong correlation between the dramatic rise of pornographic material in Japan from the 1970s onwards and a dramatic decrease in reported sexual violence, including crimes by juveniles and assaults on children under 13. They cite similar findings in Denmark and West Germany. In their summary, they state that the concern that countries with widespread availability of sexually explicit material would suffer increased rates of sexual crimes was not validated; and that the reduction of sexual crimes in Japan during that period may have been influenced by a variety of factors they had described in their study.

Link for the study is at the top of the page posted by rip&tear.


I personally don't have intrest in anything like that, but to each thier own, now i have watched (and own on DVD) Urosukidoji, yet i have never had any thought of going out and raping some random woman.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:53 pm Reply with quote
[random sarcasm]
Clearly lolicon manga causes pedophiles to attack our children. Also, Columbine was caused by Doom and Marilyn Manson. Let's ban those too.
[/random sarcasm] Rolling Eyes
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3857
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Faraz wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
(fixed)I think the difference that one uses live children and the other doesn't is irrelevant when both can be call the same thing, and on that basis then as both are the same, and used for the same result, both should be included in any ban of child porn.



What kind of rationalization is that? Because someone might call them the same name, they're the same thing? I have two tomatos in my hands. One has been sitting around for 5 months and has gone bad while the other has just been picked. They're both called tomatoes but just because "both can be called the same thing" doesn't mean I'm gonna treat them as being the same thing. I'll eat one and throw the other one into the garbage.
True, but one might notice that both are inanimate objects and therefore can not offend except maybe for the rotten one by smell and taste. But if I film someone taking both those tomatos and ramming them up your arse with his jolly roger, or just watch as that is happening in front of me while I take sketches that I later use to make a lolicom hentai, which one would be more offensive, or not offensive at all?

Quote:
As someone before me mentioned, a movie of someone getting killed and a fictional picture of someone getting killed can also be called the same thing. But filming some poor bastard getting murdered will get you in a lot of trouble while the other one will not. Well, unless you're like in highschool and just drew your classmates being shot or something.
I agree, however society doesn't find fictional murder as offensive as fictional child porn so therefore the same premiss doesn't hold true for both.
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sargon



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:50 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Moomintroll wrote:
I don't feel the need to pretend that I desire free speech in all cases, as much as I might agree that it's a thing worth protecting in general terms.


You either believe in protecting all speech, or none at all. There's no middle ground. Yes, curtailing certain types of speech, such as government secrets, libel, and slander, are necessary for the public good, and you aren't an American, but it's something all people should believe in, regardless of creed or geographical position. Otherwise you're just a hypocrite.

Since you've already said you don't believe in legislating lolicon, then you actually fall into the catagory of protecting it, whether you like it or not.


No. Just no. Stop trolling please.

Even the U.S. supreme court stated that not all speech is free speech--yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater for instance. And no I'm not talking about slander and libel since those are specifically mentioned in the constitution. Even conventional porn isn't protected by free speech (as far as I know).

And not everyone is a libertarian or has the same views as you do. Telling Moomintroll that his beliefs are wrong and you are right and calling him a hypocrite amounts to ad hominem.

Last edited by sargon on Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Anymouse



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 38
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Even the U.S. supreme court stated that not all speech is free speech--yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater for instance. And no I'm not talking about slander and libel since those are specifically mentioned in the constitution.

He already pointed that out here.
Quote:
Yes, curtailing certain types of speech, such as government secrets, libel, and slander, are necessary for the public good
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otakujohn



Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:21 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
My thoughts: Loli anime/manga/games will be protected as long as they bring in MONEY for Japan. (that really means......FOREVER). Doubt any damn thing can be done about it.....and I'm VERY pleased with that.



I for one welcome our loli overlords.
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Odross



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:09 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Faraz wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
(fixed)I think the difference that one uses live children and the other doesn't is irrelevant when both can be call the same thing, and on that basis then as both are the same, and used for the same result, both should be included in any ban of child porn.



What kind of rationalization is that? Because someone might call them the same name, they're the same thing? I have two tomatos in my hands. One has been sitting around for 5 months and has gone bad while the other has just been picked. They're both called tomatoes but just because "both can be called the same thing" doesn't mean I'm gonna treat them as being the same thing. I'll eat one and throw the other one into the garbage.
True, but one might notice that both are inanimate objects and therefore can not offend except maybe for the rotten one by smell and taste. But if I film someone taking both those tomatos and ramming them up your arse with his jolly roger, or just watch as that is happening in front of me while I take sketches that I later use to make a lolicom hentai, which one would be more offensive, or not offensive at all?

I agree, however society doesn't find fictional murder as offensive as fictional child porn so therefore the same premiss doesn't hold true for both.


there is one thing you (but not alone) still don't understand. there is nothing wrong if you make anime of that... the problem and illegal is the act itself! and not to mention that filming or drawing of that will possibly make you a complice of that crime.

thats the thing. lolicon is nothing dangerous. its fantasy of someone and if you don't want to share it don't buy/download/see lolicon. child molesting and/or pornography is something sick and everyone who harms children this way should be locked somewhere in hell.

you people say that who watches lolicon will for 100% go and rape some kid. thats totally bulls**t. those people have it in their heads. watching something can't make you go hunting children, just like some gay porn wont make you gay. its the same with everything we see. hey...i am killing people in computer games for years and guess what! i have never harmed anyone in real life! surprised? Smile i could go on... hentai with rape scenes? i've seen some and i am not rapist!

and one more thing before the end. many people here say that lolicon = child molesting. but all you protectors of children, have you really seen one? because many of them are not about molesting at all. they are about romantic relations between two people. so the girl is young, so what? some countries even today has no age limit for person to be sexually active. they say, that person has to be sufficiently sexually mature to engage in sexual relations. and thats it. if some young cute anime girl wants to have sex with adult male hero...great if its her choice then there is nothing to say, except gratz! Smile

and even if the hero rapes her, REMEMBER its still fiction. yeah its cruel but thats what life is. you see villains wiping out entire cities/villages etc. full of innocent people and don't say a word.

so don't make yourselves super cool by statements like "lolicon is pervert, i would ban all anime/manga with young girls having sex" because god knows what filthy things YOU are are thinking about in your dark room. maybe you would like to see sex with young naked boys.... Very Happy

sorry about the last one to all catholics, i've just recently seen video on youtube about true purpose of catholic church Very Happy
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