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NEWS: Two Nine-Decade-Old Anime Films Discovered


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Oronae



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 163

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:57 am Reply with quote
So, if these have any text to speak of then soon enough we'll have our very first public domain fansubs.

EDIT:Though, come to think of it, the fansubs would only be public domain if the fansubbers released their own rights to the copyright.
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reanimator



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:52 am Reply with quote
Quote:
So, if these have any text to speak of then soon enough we'll have our very first public domain fansubs.

EDIT:Though, come to think of it, the fansubs would only be public domain if the fansubbers released their own rights to the copyright.


That is the most dumbest thing I've ever heard. How can fansubbers change copyright materials to public domain when they never had any right to begin with? They didn't write the story; they didn't draw the animation; they didn't make music and sound effects; they didn't pay license fees. Your attempt to elevate fansub as public domain is ridiculous.

Instead of spouting with such nonsense, let's just cheer for this wonderful discovery of the old film that could possibly change Japanese, perhaps the world's animated film history.
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Rolando_jose



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Ahhhh it's vacation time again!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:43 am Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:
nstead of spouting with such nonsense, let's just cheer for this wonderful discovery of the old film that could possibly change Japanese, perhaps the world's animated film history.


It won't 'change' the film history. Japanese historians knew of the existence of those films, but just on Paper. Since due to the earthquake of 1923, the firebombing of the WWII and the destruction by the SCAP of several films, they thought it wast lost. In fact, there are almost no animated films from the 1917-1928 period.
So this two adds the visual capability to a film they knew existed.


Rolando
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Batman3777



Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 160
Location: Down the Shore, NJ

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:41 am Reply with quote
This is an awesome discovery. I really wonder what these shorts look like. I wonder what Japan's animation style was like back then. I don't know much about their animation history, I have to admit, so I'd be very glad to have a chance to see these some day.
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DavidShallcross



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 974

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:47 am Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:
How can fansubbers change copyright materials to public domain when they never had any right to begin with? They didn't write the story; they didn't draw the animation; they didn't make music and sound effects; they didn't pay license fees. Your attempt to elevate fansub as public domain is ridiculous.


An American film as old as these would have had its copyrights expired through sheer age. Do you know that Japanese law is different?

And if I make a translation of a public domain work, such as Beowulf (the epic poem, not the movie), I hold the copyright to the translation.

It remains to be seen whether and in what forms these films are made available to the public. In the US, sometimes the owners of physical copies of public domain works withhold the right to make copies of those particular copies, and sometimes they make digital copies available for free download.
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Cowpunk



Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Oakland - near the Newtype Lab

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:49 am Reply with quote
Cool. Perhaps Digital Meme will release them subtitled as they did with their regionless early anime collection, which includes benshi dialog.

http://www.digital-meme.com/​en/​our_products/​dvds/​4dvdset1.​html
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:58 am Reply with quote
Oh, come ON people... does everything on the front page have to be a jumping-off point for a forum beatdown these days? -_-;;;;;;
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Raz_G



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:13 pm Reply with quote
Cowpunk wrote:
Cool. Perhaps Digital Meme will release them subtitled as they did with their regionless early anime collection, which includes benshi dialog.

http://www.digital-meme.com/​en/​our_products/​dvds/​4dvdset1.​html


I highly recommend this collection. It is a bit disappointing that there is almost no background material added to the shorts, but just seeing how the Japanese style developed - from the early days of the paper cutouts to a look that's almost the familiar big-eyed characters of today - is facinating.

I do wish they'll also release Mitsuyo Seo's "Momotaro the Sea Eagle", and "Momotaro's Divine Sea Warriors" (the latter, released in 1945, is Japan's first animated feature) along with the animated shorts directed by Kon Ichikawa - I was actually surprised these didn't find their way to the collection. I agree that the newly discovered shorts should also be out on DVD... looks like Digital Meme should consider releasing another collection Very Happy
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tenkado-shujin



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:45 pm Reply with quote
Reuters wrote:
"Nakamura Katana", Kouichi's two-minute silent movie that tells the story of a samurai tricked into buying a dull-edged sword, was first released in 1917.


Anime News Network wrote:
In 1917, anime pioneer Junichi Kouchi released the two-minute "Nakamura Katana" silent short about a samurai's foolish purchase of a dull-edged sword.


Actually the title of the anime is 『なまくら刀』 (aka 『塙凹内名刀之巻』). Therefore it is Namakura Gatana. Not 'Nakamura Katana'.
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Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:21 pm Reply with quote
Namakura Gatana.This is the only pic I found
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us
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nobinobita



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Raz_G wrote:
Cowpunk wrote:
Cool. Perhaps Digital Meme will release them subtitled as they did with their regionless early anime collection, which includes benshi dialog.

http://www.digital-meme.com/​en/​our_products/​dvds/​4dvdset1.​html


I highly recommend this collection. It is a bit disappointing that there is almost no background material added to the shorts, but just seeing how the Japanese style developed - from the early days of the paper cutouts to a look that's almost the familiar big-eyed characters of today - is facinating.


That's a great great set! It's worth it for any fan of Anime or Animation or film history in general. Some of the films are actually animated incredibly well and it's intersting to see that a recognizable "anime" look and feel was present from the start.

http://youtube.com/​watch?​v=​P5B5YR6dtdk&​feature=​related

Even as early as the 30s, the animation had a distinct drawing style, very detailed, often mixing very stylized cute characters with realistic ones. Even some of the animal people tend to have cute faces on realistically drawn and clothed bodies.

You get the feeling that those characters aren't just meant to look funny, but also to look "cool," you know?

The stories tend to have an emphasis on action (again, not always as a joke, but as a more serious plot element) and they often have a focused plot, whereas most animation at the time was more like a series of random events.

That's not to say that Japanese animation is better or more sophisticated than other animation of the time, just that even early on it started displaying different sensibilities that persist to this day.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:23 pm Reply with quote
Umm, instead of trying to spark a fansub debate let's appreciate the fact that these two pieces of history have been found Rolling Eyes It would be interesting to see how these become available, and would certainly be considered treasures.
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:38 pm Reply with quote
I wonder if Jerry Beck has heard of this news yet?
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Rolando_jose



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Ahhhh it's vacation time again!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:19 pm Reply with quote
Cowpunk wrote:
Cool. Perhaps Digital Meme will release them subtitled as they did with their regionless early anime collection, which includes benshi dialog.


The Masaoka foundation released some years ago two DVDs with some animations of Kenzo Masaoka, the price was a little bit high but it was worth it. also if I remember correctly the MoMA Japan released a 12 DVD of ALL early works of Japanese animation... its price was in the 3 to 4 k.


Rolando
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Leebo



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:24 pm Reply with quote
reanimator wrote:
Quote:
So, if these have any text to speak of then soon enough we'll have our very first public domain fansubs.

EDIT:Though, come to think of it, the fansubs would only be public domain if the fansubbers released their own rights to the copyright.


That is the most dumbest thing I've ever heard. How can fansubbers change copyright materials to public domain when they never had any right to begin with? They didn't write the story; they didn't draw the animation; they didn't make music and sound effects; they didn't pay license fees. Your attempt to elevate fansub as public domain is ridiculous.

Instead of spouting with such nonsense, let's just cheer for this wonderful discovery of the old film that could possibly change Japanese, perhaps the world's animated film history.


He really didn't say anything to praise fansubbers. All he mentioned was that the age of these works likely means that they're no longer copyrighted or that the copyright has lapsed to public domain (I'm not aware of how Japanese copyright law handles such things).
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