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NEWS: Ohio Anime Con Uses RFID Technology to Track Attendees


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Zoe



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 893
Location: Austin

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:39 pm Reply with quote
kokuryu wrote:
Back then, they just used barcodes and still scanned people when they went in and out of the buildings and in and out of the dealers room and scanned for access to the guest/VIP area to make sure they were allowed to be there. Its handy technology.


It seems odd to me that anime conventions haven't been using barcodes.
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Patachu
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1253
Location: San Diego

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Zoe wrote:
1337, eh? Laughing

Nice to see some conventions moving into the future.


Next year they'll be aiming for OVER 9,000 attendees Wink

So how long until we start seeing retinal scans to get into cons?
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jvowles



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 154
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Here's the sort of useful information we'd LOVE to have, especially when planning large events:

* Whether you are in fact a valid attendee -- though that's mostly fine with existing technology.

* How many people are in a particular room at a particular time, and whether they stayed through the entire event.

* When areas are reaching critical mass or clogged; other possible traffic pattern analysis is possible.

* Where a lost child has got to.

* Where a dropped badge has got to.

* Whether members are in places they shouldn't be.

This stuff has real and practical application; it's very useful data not just during the con (as a monitoring aid for detecting problems as they occur, but throughout the planning cycle as well.

On the flip side, you have the understandable concern of privacy. Though as others have pointed out, the con already has your contact information, which is the only personally identifiable stuff they're likely to care about.

Weighing legitimate usefulness of the technology, versus (at best) theoretical privacy invasions, I tend to err on the side of the real benefits over imagined risks. (It would be relatively simple to keep the systems separate, with limited people being able to link an individual with an RFID, and even then it could be a very manual process to deter casual snooping.)
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Zin5ki
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 2185
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:40 pm Reply with quote
I suppose there are other benefits to this sort of technology. Instead of cleaning lavatory facilities every couple of hours, the frequency with which they're cleaned could be made proportional to the amount people use them.
If they were actually to do this however, I would want to be in and out of said facilities as soon as possible, so that those monitoring lavatory use wouldn't get the wrong impression.
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SaiyenGirl



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 13
Location: PA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Wow, so that's what those things were. I just thought they were things to make sure the badges were real.

You know, that's really cool. Beyond personal information, like others have said, they're a great way to see how many people are going to what events where and when and give you a way to plan for things in following years. Like jvowles said, there are so many great benefits of those technologies and could definitely benefit groups like that in the future. Cool guys.
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turnmire



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:37 pm Reply with quote
I am glad to see such an interest in this proof-of-concept application. I am one of the four people who designed and implemented this system as contractors for the convention. This is one of a selection of services we are currently forming a company to provide to events that don't have multimillion dollar budgets.

We are not at liberty to give any details as to the functionality of the system due to federal trade secret law, and patent issues, but I want to personally thank everyone who is showing us such great support for this new technology.

I would like to point out that at every step of planning from conception to execution, end-user security has been a large concern. Final statistical data is stripped of personally identifiable information, and the RFID tags themselves contain no personal or identifiable information.

Look for more from us in the near future!
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Lycwolf



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:49 pm Reply with quote
I am another of the group that built this. As turnmire said, I love the feedback this has gotten. We are already planning the next phase of the project and will be taking comments to help improve upon the system.

Though, as he stated, we don't want to say to much, but as I will re-state...

No personal data is ever or will ever be linked to these badges, another words, no-one has or can obtain any more personal information than they would know by reading the name printed on the badge. All the data processing is done via a limited number of people and any statistics or information that is used from this system will never be able to personally identify you. We value the safety and security of every client and guest that uses this system.

As for the poster who commented on never going to a con that uses this. You do realize that almost every product you buy that costs more than a few dollars contains and RFID tag? Whenever you leave a Wal-Mart (In certain stores, and soon to be nation wide) they can read every item that is in your bag, when you check out they link the purchase to your information whether it be your purchase number or your credit card info.

If you are so paranoid about identity theft and other such things, maybe you should speak out about the "Improper uses" of RFID technology such as Passports, Drivers licenses, Credit cards, Medical tags, etc. These items contain all your personal data, even though it is encrypted, but that is easy enough to break, and has already been broken. Good uses of RFID include inventory tracking, statistical data tracking, demographics and much more. Areas were personal data is never stored on the tag.

Also, "IF" you don't want the "convention" to have data about you, then you can't goto any con. I know that most cons atleast ask for First name, Last name, Address, Birthdate/Age, and maybe Phone. Even more conventions are now moving to photo ID verification at registration for liability reasons.

I could go on all day about this, but instead I think I will work on doing a panel related to it at upcoming conventions that I attend.

If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me at lycwolf(at)gmail.com

Please note that I cannot go into detail about specific processes and devices at this time. If you want a similar system for your con, let me know, we could work something out.

Again, thnx for all the feedback.

/slash

Ethan Cain (Lycwolf)
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megumi's guy



Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 66
Location: Murfreesboro, Tennessee

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:45 am Reply with quote
If you're worried just take a flexible magnet and stick on the back of badge and that should fix it. Or just stomp on it a couple of times :>)
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Zeggpold



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:59 pm Reply with quote
jvowles wrote:

On the flip side, you have the understandable concern of privacy. Though as others have pointed out, the con already has your contact information, which is the only personally identifiable stuff they're likely to care about.


[sarcasm]
Yeah, 'cause no one could possibly care about someone knowing that they attended that panel on "Sexual Perversity in Japan". Or that they were at the Singles Mixer even though they're married.
[/sarcasm]

jvowles wrote:

Weighing legitimate usefulness of the technology, versus (at best) theoretical privacy invasions, I tend to err on the side of the real benefits over imagined risks. (It would be relatively simple to keep the systems separate, with limited people being able to link an individual with an RFID, and even then it could be a very manual process to deter casual snooping.)


As indicated above, I don't think casual snooping is the problem. And since government agencies manage to lose millions of social security numbers all the time, I somehow don't trust that all the volunteer run conventions will keep information like this private, no matter what their intentions are.

Also, I don't think the convention should make that decision for its attendees. At very least, a convention using technology like this needs to let people know in advance---and judging by the number of "Oh, that's what they were doing" posts, the Ohio convention failed to even do that.
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knyves



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:17 pm Reply with quote
Although the concept of RFID tags is cool, i think to use them at an anime con is pointless and a waste of 3000 dollars to buy the cheapest ones available with homemade scanners. To fully implement this would be a huge waste of the con member's money. Seriously who would pay several thousand dollars to get proximity scanners just to eliminate crowded areas or find a lost badge that would only cost a few cents to make a new one without an RFID...
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Zoe



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 893
Location: Austin

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:24 pm Reply with quote
megumi's guy wrote:
If you're worried just take a flexible magnet and stick on the back of badge and that should fix it. Or just stomp on it a couple of times :>)


All well and good until you get pulled aside for a defective badge.
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mlund



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:39 pm Reply with quote
Zeggpold wrote:
[sarcasm]
Yeah, 'cause no one could possibly care about someone knowing that they attended that panel on "Sexual Perversity in Japan". Or that they were at the Singles Mixer even though they're married.
[/sarcasm]


Which is why no one can ever require that you remove face-coverings or submit your purse for inspection when entering a densely populated private gathering place. Oh, wait, they do that sort of thing all the time at sports events and night clubs ...

Unless you've got a really convincing mask, you really don't have the ability to attend "Sexual Perversity in Japan" or go to the Singles Mix anonymously. You don't have any right to access private property or gatherings anonymously. That's voluntary participation in a private event. You take your chances.

This isn't comparable to trying to exercise one's rights to free political or artistic speech in the public square without the threat of retribution by Big Brother. Essentially, anonymity advocates in this case are trying to strip the rights of Private Citizens to know whom they are inviting into their homes / business / events.

- Marty Lund
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DerekTheRed
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1341
Location: ::Points to hand::

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 1:58 pm Reply with quote
megumi's guy wrote:
If you're worried just take a flexible magnet and stick on the back of badge and that should fix it. Or just stomp on it a couple of times :>)


Actually, because the RF in RFID stands for radio frequency the former will have zero effect, unless it's sufficiently strong enough to induce a powerful enough current in the tag to destroy it. You'd have much better luck with the latter. And then as Zoe pointed out, they'd kick you to the curb when your tag didn't work.
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Zeggpold



Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:20 pm Reply with quote
mlund wrote:
Zeggpold wrote:
[sarcasm]
Yeah, 'cause no one could possibly care about someone knowing that they attended that panel on "Sexual Perversity in Japan". Or that they were at the Singles Mixer even though they're married.
[/sarcasm]


Unless you've got a really convincing mask, you really don't have the ability to attend "Sexual Perversity in Japan" or go to the Singles Mix anonymously. You don't have any right to access private property or gatherings anonymously. That's voluntary participation in a private event. You take your chances.


I never said anything about rights. I was replying to someone who suggested they couldn't think of any privacy implications other than the con knowing your name and address (which we all agree they already do), so I provided one.

As you say, someone could see you there, but there's a big difference between that and everyone's exact movements being posted on a website in Russia after the laptop with the data on it is stolen. (And someone in cosplay might well have a very good mask.)

mlund wrote:

This isn't comparable to trying to exercise one's rights to free political or artistic speech in the public square without the threat of retribution by Big Brother.


I never said it was.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 296

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:39 pm Reply with quote
I think if it got advanced enough, it could be pretty useful data. I don't think the vendors should get access to your name/email/address (and I doubt the con people were even considering this), but it'd be useful to them if they knew that like:

- basic data about a person (person is only identified as a number though) like age, sex, and maybe some other stuff that the person could choose to fill out when registering the badge (like favorite shows, shows they are interested in etc).
- went to stores x, y, z,
- purchased a, b, c

That would be helpful, especially if the con can provide details about how many people stop by what booths, the ratio of stoppers:buyers, how much was spent in total at that booth. With data like that, they can attract bigger and better vendors.

Plus it'd be cool to me as a consumer if I could go online and like see how much time I spent at each event/area/booth. If I chose to participate, it'd be cool to see like a list of other people who had similar taste as mine too. If it gets really advanced, you could link up "shows interested in" to deals being offered by the dealers and you could get a text message when something you liked was going on sale or something.
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