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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 4531
Location: Indianapolis (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:32 pm |
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| bubbleum wrote: | So, you [HitorikiShadow] are saying that yuri anime in general can be watched by everyone regardless of sex or interests (something I completely agree with), but Strawberry Panic in particular is meant for yuri fans only?
Hmm... Do you honestly believe that? |
As you note yourself later in your post, yuri is about as niche as niche titles get within anime. Although some yuri titles could be appreciated by both genders (I think Kashimashi in particular falls into this category), they all have limited general appeal, hence the reason why they never get dubbed.
| Quote: | | Actually the drama is quite good I'd say. It's just amazing how SP uses so many cliches and yet manages to pull out such a magnificent and heartbreaking melodrama. |
Are talking about just the first six episodes? I get the definite impression you're referring to the whole series here. Since the original discussion is only about vol. 1, you should clarify when you're referring to the series as a whole.
If, OTOH, you really are referring to the first six with that comment, then you and I must have watched entirely different series.
| Quote: | Serious, well-developed, believable - exactly that comes to my mind whenever I hear romance and Strawberry Panic in the same sentence. I can't really understand why you did not get intrigued by the love story. Maybe you bear some kind of a resemblance to one other guy who used to roll his eyes way too occasionally. I truly believe that anyone can be absorbed in the story as long as that one just pays attention to what's happening and wait for the end before drawing conclusions of the series.
. . .
And that's the reason why the romance in Strawberry Panic is so good. At first everything seems like a childish play but later everything changes - just like in real life. |
Again, you're apparently talking about content beyond the scope of the first six episodes, and remember, you're talking to people who haven't necessarily seen any of SP beyond that (including me). If the series proves that amazing later on then I'll certainly revise my overall opinions of it; it's happened before. Based just on the first 11 episodes, though, I'm not seeing it yet.
| Quote: | | My original point was that for a yuri title the animation won't be perfect but that was to be expected (do we really need any numbers? I'm sure animes don't really have that much of a budget, much less a lesbian series). And like I said - SP isn't about animation, it's about story, realtionships, drama. |
Doesn't matter. Grades we give aren't relative to the type of series, and I could show you sooo many other series which have sooo much better animation than this one does. Heck, even within the yuri niche, this one doesn't hold a candle to Simoun on animation.
| Quote: | | This is what I was looking for. Actually I'm really sorry for you (I mean it), wonder when was the last time you enjoyed a series. I bet every little flaw in the animation sticks out a mile for you. Definitely looks like a tough job I don't see myself doing and honestly speaking I don't want to. |
Oh, I enjoy series all the time, although in several cases I have to overlook weak animation to do so. (For some reason Fruits Basket immediately comes to mind when I say that.)
| Quote: | | That's why, regarding the "sustained movement", I can say it with no regrets that if we assume the length of an episode is 22 minutes then everything from the 1st till the 132nd minute was smooth and soft like a baby's skin. |
Uh, right. Sure.
Anyway, since our original discussion on this I have seen and reviewed vol. 2, which is currently waiting in the review queue. I doubt you'll like my opinion on vol. 2 much more when it comes up, as I think it does nothing to change whatever one's initial impression is of the series. I am enough of a fan of "girls swooning over other girls" that I will probably still watch the series out in hopes that it shows enough later on to justify the enthusiasm you and a couple of others have for the series, but right now I'm still baffled by what some of you see in it. |
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HitokiriShadow
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 4908
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:51 am |
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| bubbleum wrote: |
So, you are saying that yuri anime in general can be watched by everyone regardless of sex or interests (something I completely agree with), but Strawberry Panic in particular is meant for yuri fans only?
Hmm... Do you honestly believe that? |
Not "yuri in general", as if Strawberry Panic is in the minority, but that yuri is not necessarily for "yuri fans only." I think people could enjoy, for example, Maria-sama ga Miteru without having an interest in yuri. Possibly Kashimashi or Simoun (the latter of which I haven't seen yet) as well. Strawberry Panic, on the other hand, is an indulgence for people who like girls falling in love with other girls with little room for people who fall outside that category.
| bubbleum wrote: |
I don't really see how can the romance be described as "laughable" when actually it's rather authentic. ...
Actually the drama is quite good I'd say. ...
Serious, well-developed, believable - exactly that comes to my mind whenever I hear romance and Strawberry Panic in the same sentence. |
We're just not going to see eye to eye on this, so there's no point in arguing over it.
| Quote: | | If we assume that Strawberry Panic is a "pure yuri cheesecake" then that's the tastiest cheesecake I've ate in my entire life (I'm quite illiterate about these drinking games so I hope you would be so kind to educate me on that subject as I see you are more into that stuff. Something does not add up here though - that would mean that you enjoyed the "shameless melodrama" that SP had going. So you either don't know a thing about these drinking games or there just isn't such thing as a "shameless melodrama". I place my bet on the latter). |
Well, it ultimately was a tasty treat once I stopped expecting a good story or romance and just enjoyed the delicious, shameless yuri and the increasingly ridiculous story and situations. And when I learned to tolerate Nagisa's presence. I've never participated in a drinking game nor do I have any plans to, so I can't help you there.
| Key wrote: |
Anyway, since our original discussion on this I have seen and reviewed vol. 2, which is currently waiting in the review queue. I doubt you'll like my opinion on vol. 2 much more when it comes up, as I think it does nothing to change whatever one's initial impression is of the series. I am enough of a fan of "girls swooning over other girls" that I will probably still watch the series out in hopes that it shows enough later on to justify the enthusiasm you and a couple of others have for the series, but right now I'm still baffled by what some of you see in it. |
I found the early episodes to be weak as they were generally dull (certain scenes and characters excepted). I felt that it got better later on in the sense that it was entertaining, not that the plot or romance aspects were 'good'. Entertaining in a trainwreck/laughably bad sort of way. Though, admittedly, that may have been partly because me lowering my expectations and standards and indulging in the yuri.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next review. |
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bubbleum
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:10 pm |
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| Key wrote: | I get the definite impression you're referring to the whole series here.
Again, you're apparently talking about content beyond the scope of the first six episodes, and remember, you're talking to people who haven't necessarily seen any of SP beyond that (including me). |
That series of comments was directed at HitokiriShadow as it's obvious that his observations of SP were based on the series as a whole. I'm well aware that this is a discussion regarding the first 6 episodes only so I've tried my best till now not to reveal anything (not counting one time but I'm positive I used a spoiler tag). I believe HitokiriShadow and myself have been quite general in our views so we couldn't possibly have spoiled anyone. I really think it'll be better if we'd stick to the 1st DVD only though.
| Quote: | | Doesn't matter. Grades we give aren't relative to the type of series, and I could show you sooo many other series which have sooo much better animation than this one does. Heck, even within the yuri niche, this one doesn't hold a candle to Simoun on animation. |
The question here is not about the grades and the type of the series. A great animation would require a great amount of money, something the producers of a lesbian title could not possibly afford. Now, I can't be that certain whether Madhouse really had low budget stored for SP since there's no information, but the opposite seems even much less possible.
I don't really see why should we concentrate ourselves on the animation that much. Granted, it's not that great, but it isn't that weak either. And regarding Simoun - let's just say that I liked the SP art and animation more.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | That's why, regarding the "sustained movement", I can say it with no regrets that if we assume the length of an episode is 22 minutes then everything from the 1st till the 132nd minute was smooth and soft like a baby's skin. |
Uh, right. Sure.
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| Quote: | Granted, it's not something a veteran anime viewer is probably going to notice unless you're looking for it
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Remember, that's my "veteran not looking for it" self speaking there. Besides, I believe we already agreed on the fact that noone will be annoyed by the quality unless they are looking for it. I don't think anyone watches any anime for the sole purpose of getting annoyed though. That's why I don't understand why it's paid so much attention to that matter since the "veteran anime viewer" won't probably even notice it. It should be penalized, but it shouldn't be the decisive factor when grading the animation as a whole. True, it's not top quality, but then again weak is not the right word. I'd go with good but nothing spectacular.
Anyway, I believe that noone will be that disappointed with the animation as the viewer won't even notice its flaws.
| Quote: | | I doubt you'll like my opinion on vol. 2 much more when it comes up, as I think it does nothing to change whatever one's initial impression is of the series. I am enough of a fan of "girls swooning over other girls"... |
Well, I don't really think anyone cares what will my biased opinion be and actually it doesn't matter as long as the review is rich in content and covers all the main problems (something what the first one did overall).
Maybe that's one of the reasons I liked SP so much - even though I wasn't a "girls swooning over other girls" fan when I watched it for the first time and I still prefer the boy/girl relationships SP just has the best romance story I've ever seen, read or whatever. That's my humble opinion.
| HitokiriShadow wrote: |
Not "yuri in general", as if Strawberry Panic is in the minority, but that yuri is not necessarily for "yuri fans only." |
It looks like it's my turn to work out a compromise. I truly believe that all of the mentioned titles can be watched by anyone, every one of them. But have to agree with what Key pointed out - such titles just have a "limited general appeal". Most of the people go for the typical boy/girl romance and whenever they stumble upon something different their first thought is to deny it.
| Quote: | | Well, it ultimately was a tasty treat once I stopped expecting a good story or romance and just enjoyed the delicious, shameless yuri and the increasingly ridiculous story and situations. |
I'm seriously confused here. The story and the romance got deeper and much more intense as of the latter episodes. Are you basing that opinion on the first ten or so episodes or on the series as a whole? If it's on the series as a whole then I'm completely dumbfounded. The latter episodes didn't have that many "delicious" yuri scenes (and in reality SP doesn't have that much fanservice at all), neither was the story ridiculous or funny in any way. I'm willing to make the first post in the discussion thread for the 4th DVD, to prove you that the story isn't ludicrous or laughable, when it comes out, seeing which episodes are included.
Just noticed that the typo in the creator's name has not been corrected yet. It should be Sakurako Kimino, not Kimono. |
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Veoryn87
Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 791
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:36 pm |
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| bubbleum wrote: | | I don't really see why should we concentrate ourselves on the animation that much. |
When I watch an animated series, I expect to see animation. Simple as that. I don't exactly need great animation to enjoy a series, but I will dock points if the animation is sub par. I guess I'm still spoiled by the older cartoons that I use to watch, like Looney Toons and Batman. |
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HitokiriShadow
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 4908
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:22 am |
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| bubbleum wrote: |
I'm seriously confused here. The story and the romance got deeper and much more intense as of the latter episodes. Are you basing that opinion on the first ten or so episodes or on the series as a whole? If it's on the series as a whole then I'm completely dumbfounded. The latter episodes didn't have that many "delicious" yuri scenes (and in reality SP doesn't have that much fanservice at all), neither was the story ridiculous or funny in any way. I'm willing to make the first post in the discussion thread for the 4th DVD, to prove you that the story isn't ludicrous or laughable, when it comes out, seeing which episodes are included.
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I didn't mean explicit scenes of yuri, as in sex or kissing and the like. Just girls being in love with other girls, along with the drama and a few other things.
I've been speaking as vaguely as possible as I'd prefer not to discuss specifics of later volumes, even in tags. So this discussion will need to be delayed until the review of the last volume. I'll just say that while things got more "intense" they didn't get more believable or less silly. |
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