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sonyfan
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:17 pm |
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| when you check Kadokawa USA website at least one of the animes that they order be taken of animesukis is on their website. the anime is Mamorukun ni Megami no Shukufuku wo! and its americanized name will be venus to Mamoru. |
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walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 1649
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:25 pm |
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| Yes, but to learn Japanese specifically to understand what's going on in R2 DVDs you had to buy because it's unlicensed and they boohoo'd over fansubs is completely ridiculous. Find a better reason. |
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Awaken
Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 19
Location: Pimp slapping your momma...
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:32 pm |
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| Zac wrote: | | samuelp wrote: | | Zac wrote: |
Yes, how horrible for someone to suggest you put effort into enjoying something you love.
How terrible for someone to suggest you educate yourselves.
If the lot of you spent half the time you spend whining on anime forums into learning Japanese I'd wager you would all be happier people. |
Spoken from a person who truly knows his boots from his buttons.
And how much Japanese have you learned during your long career as an anime commentator?
<- have studied Japanese for 6 years and counting in order to read the end of Narutaru (among other more important reasons) |
I took 3 years in college and try to avoid getting rusty by doing a little studying now and then.
My point was that it's kind of repellent to get all uppity and act like it's completely impossible to learn another language or educate yourself. As though everything involved with your hobby has to be completely effortless. That concept is kind of baffling to me; people should want to educate themselves. Intellectual curiosity and all. |
While I agree with you on everything you've stated above I think I'll play The Devil's Advocate for a sec and just say that while what you say is logical sometimes life gets in the way. Not everyone can make the time to study a language in a reasonable amount of time to a reasonable level to even understand some of their favorite anime shows. School, work, girlfriends that for some strange, unexplainable reason think you should spend time with them, they all get in the way.
You all can say tough nuts all you want about my comment but I think many American anime fans might have the same mentality about anime industry's downward slide if your going to keep ignoring our need for change and especially our busy lives in this day and age. |
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samuelp
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 788
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:33 pm |
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| Zac wrote: |
I took 3 years in college and try to avoid getting rusty by doing a little studying now and then.
My point was that it's kind of repellent to get all uppity and act like it's completely impossible to learn another language or educate yourself. As though everything involved with your hobby has to be completely effortless. That concept is kind of baffling to me; people should want to educate themselves. Intellectual curiosity and all. |
Unfortunately, I think applying that litmus test to the current batch of anime fans would cut out about 90% of the people who actually buy DVDs.
Actually, the fact is this sort of debate always touches on some people's sore points. There are people who are good at languages, and there are people who just aren't, just like people are good at math or not, etc... Telling someone who is bad at languages to go out and study Japanese at all is like me complaining to my mother about how she can't integrate. All it does is piss her off and get her yelling at me about how I shouldn't look down on people just because they don't know calculus, yadda yadda yadda... Then she always would counter with the fact that she spoke SPANISH and that I didn't know any other language, but HAHA, I showed her, now I LIVE in another country and she never did and she's forgotten most of her spanish, and I know calculus and japanese and so I beat my mom.
Anyway, it's a sore point to some people. |
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:50 pm |
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if the company thinks that by remove bt links can benifit them, why not do it.
people kept talking about legal issue in here, but it's not illegal to ask website to remove links too. Those anime are thier propoties, if they don't want us to watch those anime, they have the right to try to stop us.(it doesn't mean they can)
if release anime in US lose money, there is no reason to release most anime in US either. point at Geneon.
Companies need to be selective now, not all anime can make money in US. I'm not saying fansubs/torrents make company lose money, but it's very hard to convince me that fansubs/torrents is not part of the issue. |
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Kruszer
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3498
Location: Duluth, MN
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:54 pm |
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| Quote: | I took 3 years in college and try to avoid getting rusty by doing a little studying now and then.
My point was that it's kind of repellent to get all uppity and act like it's completely impossible to learn another language or educate yourself. As though everything involved with your hobby has to be completely effortless. That concept is kind of baffling to me; people should want to educate themselves. Intellectual curiosity and all. |
Well, some people have actually tried learning other languages (myself) and get annoyed/amused when people that callously suggest it as some trivially easy and inexpensive solution with a high and mighty attitude. (This comment is not really directed at you but take it in a general context to the comments in this thread.) Some people just don't have the time, patience, IQ, money, whatever else to learn another language and there's nothing wrong with that. I find it extremely difficult to do personally, not impossible, but it's not a cake walk and this is comming from someone who recieved constant strait As in English my whole life and have an aptitude for it. Language is the foundation of everything you've ever learned in your life. Trying to learn another language for me is like moving an entire house to another location. The bigger the house the longer it takes to deconstruct and reconstruct it, then you've got add the additions (EX: some languages apply gender to words). It helps if you have plans (EX: similarities between Spanish and English) however, it's more difficult if you don't. Anyhow that's my two cents on the matter.
As for the topic at hand I enjoyed Spice and Wolf and H20-Footprints in the Sand and would buy them but since this doesn't seem to have anything to do with them being R1 liscensed I can't say it really effects me since I finished them and wasn't planning on watching any of the other titles.
Last edited by Kruszer on Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kaioshin_Sama
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 338
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:54 pm |
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Problem is that Kadokawa is lately relying on control and advertising rather then creating strong franchises that people can get into on their own. The only franchises they arguably have that has mass appeal are Haruhi and Lucky Star and even those they almost merged together with Lucky Star TV last year so that's more like one and a half.
Compare that with competitors like Namco Bandai who made use of:
Gundam, Code Geass, iDOLM@STER, Dragon Ball Z toys, Namco Games, Votoms, Super Sentai, Digimon toys etc.
or Toei who had:
Precure, One Piece, Digmon etc who as much as their shows have no appeal to older kids/adults have mass appeal to children such they pretty much have the demographic sewn up.
There's no real excuse for them being in the red while these two companies who they share stock and partnerships with have posted profits other then something wrong with their business practices (hint hint, advertising/control mongering/gimmicky ideas on ever level of everything they do) and yet they seek to put the blame on fansubbers. (After the fact I might add) It's no wonder they are struggling when they put all their eggs in one basket and frequently screw with their fans. Stop the gimmicks and raise some new franchises that have mass appeal and can develop into proven name brands Kadokawa. It should at least help slow the bleeding if it doesn't stop or reverse it. |
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The Xenos
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:29 pm |
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| So what if they're not licensed in DVD Region 1? It's the world wide web. International copyright covers all regions and these are being distributed on a global network. The whole region 1 license thing was something made up by fans and something allowed to slip by from US and Japanese companies. The Japanese company, who seems to be working through their American one, has every damn right to call for a cease and desist. No one is entitled to watching these fansubs for nothing. We never were. The companies used to look the other way is all it was. Any time they could swoop down and do this. |
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bayoab
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:50 pm |
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| Kaioshin_Sama wrote: | | Problem is that Kadokawa is lately relying on control and advertising rather then creating strong franchises that people can get into on their own. |
If you look at Kadokawa's properties, their goal clearly is diversity through stuff that appeals to the mass otaku interests, not the masses. Their primary two focuses are publishing and distribution. Their goals are to advertise series and get them out there.
| Quote: | | The only franchises they arguably have that has mass appeal are Haruhi and Lucky Star and even those they almost merged together with Lucky Star TV last year so that's more like one and a half. |
Also, Lucky Star... mass appeal... franchise? How about none of the above? Mass otaku appeal? Possibly. And I see you are still bitter. How about you stop claiming everything Kadokawa does is wrong just because your precious Lucky Star had Haruhi in it.
How about the Full Metal Panic franchise? They own the publishing rights and distribute the shows. It is one of the top selling light novel series in Japan. (The show on the other hand doesn't do that well.)
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Compare that with competitors like Namco Bandai who made use of:
Gundam, Code Geass, iDOLM@STER, Dragon Ball Z toys, Namco Games, Votoms, Super Sentai, Digimon toys etc.
or Toei who had:
Precure, One Piece, Digmon etc who as much as their shows have no appeal to older kids/adults have mass appeal to children such they pretty much have the demographic sewn up. |
Wait, so Namco gets credit for having the toy licenses for Toei franchies but Kadokawa doesn't get credit for having a number (most?) of the Gundam manga and doing the advertising for most of the Sunrise series (Geass, Gundam, etc) in Newtype? Nor the Kadokawa games division that publishes games off their properties?
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There's no real excuse for them being in the red while these two companies who they share stock and partnerships with have posted profits other then something wrong with their business practices (hint hint, advertising/control mongering/gimmicky ideas on ever level of everything they do) and yet they seek to put the blame on fansubbers. |
First of all, these three companies target three completely different market sectors and have their primary focus in three different places. Toei relies entirely on squeezing as much money out of franchises as possible. They will cancel a show, fire the staff, or outsource it to the cheapest animation team possible as soon as a show looks like it will not post a profit to their expectations. Bandai-Namco focuses on a specific segment of the market and their primary market is toys.
Kadokawa's 2008 financial report doesn't appear to be even available online (in english) so you have no justification for claiming they are blaming their operating loss for the year on issues with fansubbers.
Additionally, they were looking to do all these forward thinking ideas, which you claim are gimmicks to scrounge up any dollar, when they were posting a profit. (See 2007 annual report) You seem to blame the company for actually wanting to be on top of "Web2.0" and trying to do things right.
And for your oh so ruined by advertising Lucky Star, it still sold an average of nearly 30000 copies per disc in Japan. Clearly they did something right.
| Quote: | | (After the fact I might add) It's no wonder they are struggling when they put all their eggs in one basket and frequently screw with their fans. Stop the gimmicks and raise some new franchises that have mass appeal and can develop into proven name brands Kadokawa. It should at least help slow the bleeding if it doesn't stop or reverse it. |
Struggling? Eggs in one basket? They rely on diversity to their target market. They had one bad year due to reduced earnings. (For which I cannot find their explanation.) They already forecast a profit for the next operating year and there is no reason to believe that they need to change anything they are doing to actually obtain that. |
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hikaru004
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 1833
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:00 pm |
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I know I'm a little late to the discussion but what was so bad about having Haruhi crossover in Lucky Star? Haven't seen anything beside a brigade armband, uniform and the dance so far.
Kanon also had a Haruhi reference in it.
Sorry for hitting your sore spot samuelp . |
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otimus
Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:48 pm |
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Ahhh... good ol' internet. Where practically anything and everything will be defended by fans of something.
Especially with the most inane of ways!
Learn Japanese? Frigging learn Japanese? Are you frigging kidding me? I mean, honestly, you can't be serious.
It's like this in every forum, too! Audiophile forums, video forums, anything forums. Some sort of something does something, and then someone defends it, and then someone throws up this insane rationale as a way to do something.
It's a very annoying method of fandom, and a very annoying, and expected occurrence in forums. |
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Goodpenguin
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 457
Location: Hunt Valley, MD
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:22 pm |
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| Awaken wrote: |
While I agree with you on everything you've stated above I think I'll play The Devil's Advocate for a sec and just say that while what you say is logical sometimes life gets in the way. Not everyone can make the time to study a language in a reasonable amount of time to a reasonable level to even understand some of their favorite anime shows. School, work, girlfriends that for some strange, unexplainable reason think you should spend time with them, they all get in the way.
You all can say tough nuts all you want about my comment but I think many American anime fans might have the same mentality about anime industry's downward slide if your going to keep ignoring our need for change and especially our busy lives in this day and age. |
Not to hop in too much, but I think there's a little more 'background' to the 'maybe you could learn Japanese' remark. Anime's fanbase features a pretty sizable, vocal chunk who treat the medium very, very seriously. Far beyond normal hobbies really, and almost into a realm where it was some sort of academic pursuit. I'm sure you've heard things like the following many times: "Why did they change the names? The dub bastardized the series!! The subs aren't to my liking!! They should always use the Japanese translation literally, English ruins it!!! Dubbed anime corrupts the product!!, etc.".
Especially if you put yourself in the shoes of long-time posters/people who review anime and have to wade through such comments frequently, you can understand where the simple 'If your so passionate, learn Japanese' comes from. In other fields of high-level interests/hobby/pursuits, folks are expected to learn/display specialized knowledge. I have a wife and busy job like you make mention of, but my academic field demanded I learn a passable understanding of (at least one of) Latin/Russian/German. Most Poli Theory/Philosophy/Literary reviewers/researcher/academics work with that same reality. Computer hobbyists have to know a fair amount of technical knowledge. Folks who work on cars for fun have to pick up above-average mechanical skills. Etc.
In the case of the vocal anime fanbase segment who hold themselves (very publicly, and often crassly) as 'high-test purists', I don't think it's at all out of bounds to say 'then learn Japanese', which is essentially like saying 'put your money where your mouth is'. If anime/manga is indeed the pure art form sullied by English intrusion as some make out (again, very publicly), does it not make sense that one should make the effort to be able to enjoy the form in the manner one loudly professes to be best? A person arguing for the 'purity' of anime, while simultaneously arguing that learning Japanese is a ridiculous, unrealistic request, comes across as a rather low-rent pouser who wants accolades for being some sort of 'advanced fan' without putting any effort into the hobby at all. |
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craziplaya21
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:09 pm |
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| wow, who even uses asuki anymore, there are far better alternatives out there that has databases of every anime torrents... |
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RabbitRevolution
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 217
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:00 pm |
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I think that the people who are criticizing Zac and hikaru004 are missing the entire point. Unlike many people on this forum, neither of them is whining that getting anime in English is their God-given right or something. They are merely pointing out to the people who are acting like they're going to shrivel up and die without their subbed anime that they can still purchase the R2 and learn Japanese if it's really that darn important to them. Yes, this method is both incredibly expensive and time-consuming, but it's not like this is out of the range of human possibility. Acting like these guys are asking you to literally move mountains is being a tad overdramatic, methinks.
| Goodpenguin wrote: |
In the case of the vocal anime fanbase segment who hold themselves (very publicly, and often crassly) as 'high-test purists', I don't think it's at all out of bounds to say 'then learn Japanese', which is essentially like saying 'put your money where your mouth is'. If anime/manga is indeed the pure art form sullied by English intrusion as some make out (again, very publicly), does it not make sense that one should make the effort to be able to enjoy the form in the manner one loudly professes to be best? A person arguing for the 'purity' of anime, while simultaneously arguing that learning Japanese is a ridiculous, unrealistic request, comes across as a rather low-rent pouser who wants accolades for being some sort of 'advanced fan' without putting any effort into the hobby at all. |
I totally agree with this. It really bothers me that some of the most rabid fans who obsessively download fansubs and claim to be purists who wouldn't watch a legal English adaptation if someone paid them are the loudest with their complaints about stupid translation issues. For example, all of the complaints about leaving out honorifics in anime subtitles. Umm, if you can't be bothered to listen to how characters refer to each other in the Japanese audio, I question your devotion to "purity" if you're so damn lazy. (Honorifics in English-translated manga is a separate issue. I still disagree with them, but for different reasons.)
Luckily, if you don't speak Japanese, there are plenty of legally available English dubbed and subtitled anime out there for English speakers. It's fine if an anime fan doesn't speak Japanese, but those who demand they are entitled to anime in English regardless of the legality make me angry. |
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Wandering Knight
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:31 am |
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| Quote: | | I know I'm a little late to the discussion but what was so bad about having Haruhi crossover in Lucky Star? Haven't seen anything beside a brigade armband, uniform and the dance so far. |
The whole show was bombarded with Haruhi references. They even embedded DVD ads within the story. |
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