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NEWS: Judge Compares Anime File-Sharing to Stealing Bread


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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:37 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Judge Hiroyuki Satō of the Kyoto District Court compared anime file-sharing to "distributing bread that was shoplifted from a supermarket" on Monday in the trial of one of three men accused of uploading anime with the Share program without authorization.


I sure get corrected whne I compare downloading to stealing.
But judges are judges. It doesn't pay to argue witgh the judge if you are a defendant. Suggestions, yes. Argue, you risk making them mad.

Quote:
The prosecution is requesting a one-year, six-month sentence for the 34-year-old company employee Kasuhiro Maki from Kawasaki City, and claimed that Maki was motivated by the desire to raise his reputation among online users.

Quote:
While Maki admitted to the facts of the indictment during the trial, his counsel sought a suspended sentence. Under questioning, Maki said he began competing with others on how fast he can spread anime via the Share file-sharing program to gain recognition on bulletin-board sites.


THis is what I've been arguing for awhile.
In the past, fansubs were designed to spread the word about an anime or manga. Like a religion-spreading the good word & thus beneficial to anime/manga.
Now it's self glory, only it's not even something of his really.
It's not like he's setting a racing record or eating the most hot dogs or anything he himself could really say he did.
Who cares if it's killing the people making it? If one studio goes under because they lose too much money, he moves on to the next.



Quote:
After the court adjourned, the defense counsel said, "The defendant was not stealing anything. Because of the malicious denotation [of the term 'stealing'], it is not an appropriate comparison."


THIS is the interesting part.
"Stealing" has a negative connotation & thus is inapproriate.

Shall we go with the "Take & use without permission" line I see used for my clients who steal cars?

It's like the fool I had in front of me yesterday who didn't see how what he did was a felony (smile smile) so I asked if he did or did not steal the guitar "But I don't think it's a felony" (smile smile)
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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1069

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:47 pm Reply with quote
OnanRulz wrote:
Does mean Sunrise is Inspector Javert?


Do you read minds? That's kind of creepy.

Quote:
A more accurate analogy would be that he bought or was given a loaf of bread, and duplicated and distributed copies of this bread for free.

And if we throw the number '5000' in here, and mention some fish, then the whole analogy looks very different.


So we should worship this man, huh... Well, it happens Anime hyper

If he's Jesus, then Sunrise is kind of like Pontius Pilate, maybe. Yep for more ridiculous metaphors.
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2616
Location: Out.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:51 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
Quote:
Judge Hiroyuki Satō of the Kyoto District Court compared anime file-sharing to "distributing bread that was shoplifted from a supermarket" on Monday in the trial of one of three men accused of uploading anime with the Share program without authorization.


I sure get corrected whne I compare downloading to stealing.
But judges are judges. It doesn't pay to argue witgh the judge if you are a defendant. Suggestions, yes. Argue, you risk making them mad.



Not so much a correction this time as a word of disagreement.

This is just another one of the stupid judges in the world. Do not assume just because a person is a judge they know what the hell they're talking about. They make dumb mistakes too.

Regardless of how I feel about said Judge making stupid remarks, the person in question is stupid too. Not for uploading, but for uploading for popularity. If you're an up loader you disappear after you finish. Leaving comments and stuff behind is begging to be caught, and he did. I feel no remorse in that sense.

Another few words: I'm not quite sure on the purpose of uploaders in Japan. is it the lack of reruns? Or the idiotically high prices for two episodes? Or is it some wacky waving inflatable tube-man cross between the two?
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KarmaRocketX



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:30 pm Reply with quote
"After the court adjourned, the defense counsel said, "The defendant was not stealing anything. Because of the malicious denotation [of the term 'stealing'], it is not an appropriate comparison.""

That is a complete load of crap. Theft is theft. Theft of copyrighted material is still theft.

If anything this is comparable to stealing large amounts of television box set DVD's en masse from a Best Buy in broad daylight.

Anime is not bread. It's not consumable, it is not necessary to sustain ones life. No one has ever died from starvation from animated commercial media.

This judge is a stupid fool. If a judge in the US would make such an idiotic ruling, his license would be revoked the next day for incompetence.
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vtnwesley



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Natrona Heights, PA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:37 pm Reply with quote
So is the judge saying they lightened up the sentence because he wasn't stealing to be greedy but rather stealing for nerd-cred? Does it even matter? It's stupid and petty. It's illegal, and it is theft. Isn't that the important part? This isn't like "murder vs self-defense"... The motivation doesn't really seem to matter much and I don't like the fact we have to care if "steal" is a "negative" term that might make the little thieves feel bad.

KarmaRocketX wrote:
Anime is not bread. It's not consumable, it is not necessary to sustain ones life. No one has ever died from starvation from animated commercial media.


With the way some people act these days, you'd swear they needed it more than food or water.
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Gamen



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:57 pm Reply with quote
KarmaRocketX wrote:
That is a complete load of crap. Theft is theft. Theft of copyrighted material is still theft.

If anything this is comparable to stealing large amounts of television box set DVD's en masse from a Best Buy in broad daylight.


Except, it's not. Theft deprives one person of a property and puts it into the hands of another. This is copyright infringement. It's copying what is someone else's to copy, and in this case depriving them of at least some deserved profit.

What's interesting is that for most anime, it's not making a free alternative to the broadcast that is the issue. Most anime (and Japanese TV in general) is brokered programming, and the studio (and the sponsors) pay for the broadcast slot, and provide they're own advertisements (for their and their sponsors' products). No, what the real problem is is that the digital file is an alternative to the DVD, which is where studios actually make the money.

Of course, it's not cut and dry. Some will not buy the DVDs anyway, some will be exposed to the show that weren't. I wish we knew what the numbers were, though by the looks of things people who would buy DVDs aren't, or the studios are making stuff that isn't appealing to the non-pirates, or both.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7232
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:16 pm Reply with quote
Yeah the Judge may be stupid in your eyes, but he's the man with the power to send you down for a few years from your life, so you might want to keep your belief in his intelligence quotient level to yourself until after the sentence. Wink
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RadicaLElly



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 188
Location: Coral Springs, FL

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:28 pm Reply with quote
OnanRulz wrote:
Does mean Sunrise is Inspector Javert?


I came here for the Les Mis references, and I was not disappointed.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3481
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:34 pm Reply with quote
It warms the cockles of my heart to see a bread-related thread here. The number of loaves I've enjoyed over the years far exceeds the number of anime I've watched.
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Jaekay



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:48 pm Reply with quote
How stupid and self deluded people are.
It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce anime, and they sell it to consumers for what, $20 a DVD.
Economics 101 : They need to sell enough dvds to individuals to cover their costs / help fund the production of the next series.
HOW are they meant to do this if only one person buys it and distributes it for free to everyone else?

If you paid $100 000 for an anime DVD, would you be quick to share it for free on the internet?

p.s. I would love to know how/why so many people on the internet are proud of displaying their extreme ignorance.
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LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5629
Location: Support Breast Cancer Research

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
the defense counsel said, "The defendant was not stealing anything. Because of the malicious denotation [of the term 'stealing'], it is not an appropriate comparison."


Well, it's nice to see that defense attorneys are the same world-wide.
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Daimao Raki



Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 587
Location: Dark Side of the Moon

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:00 pm Reply with quote
I do think the sentence is too long, but the Japanese govt wants to make an example out of these people. But consider the FBI warning on all DVDs. Uploading those DVDs can get you a 250,000 fine and/or 5 years in butt pouding Federal prison.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2055

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:11 pm Reply with quote
KarmaRocketX wrote:

That is a complete load of crap. Theft is theft. Theft of copyrighted material is still theft.

If anything this is comparable to stealing large amounts of television box set DVD's en masse from a Best Buy in broad daylight.

How so? If I download a show I can and have later gone on to purchase it. If I steal a DVD... then I have no reason to buy it because I have the physical product. I also have something that no one else can buy. They are totally different things. Uploading something allows people the option to not purchase perhaps, but it certainly doesn't force people not to purchase or cause the industry to lose their DVDs. It is totally up to the individual who downloads to purchase or not purchase what they download online. In many cases they may download because they missed the show, or because they don't have the money to afford the dvd, etc.

Quote:

Anime is not bread. It's not consumable, it is not necessary to sustain ones life. No one has ever died from starvation from animated commercial media.


The fact it's not consumable, that it doesn't disappear like bread does (or your television DVD box sets), is the very thing that makes the analogy meaningless.
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bradc



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:17 pm Reply with quote
Daimao Raki wrote:
I do think the sentence is too long, but the Japanese govt wants to make an example out of these people. But consider the FBI warning on all DVDs. Uploading those DVDs can get you a 250,000 fine and/or 5 years in butt pouding Federal prison.


Regardless of the fine where FBI put warning on all the DVD; people buy them and rip them to share online. In Japan, it's another story about file sharing and downloading... And there people in Japan still download the files and share them regardless... Strange world of the internet... And ever advance changing technologies.


Last edited by bradc on Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 1867
Location: Romania, Bucharest

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:19 pm Reply with quote
Are still on the "downloading is stealing" thing? How is it hard to understand?


downloading = copying something that does not belong to you without paying

stealing = taking something that does not belong to youwithout paying AND depriving somone of that something

Exept for the "something that does not belong to you without paying", how are they the same?

If I steal your car, then you don't have it anymore. You can't drive it, you can't do shit. If I copy your car........then I'm a genius, but you still have your car. You can drive in it and stuff. Only now I also have a copy of your car.
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