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BrothersElric
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 1996
Location: Bountiful, Utah: Okay, okay, FINALLY a non FMA avatar, but who cares! :P
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 Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:02 pm |
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| doctordoom85 wrote: | | BrothersElric: Now you seem to be changing the argument. At first, you were complaining about how Funimation "inserted" (though I added that it was still an accurate translation) foul language, now you're complaining about the Japanese's view on it. |
According to my argument, wouldn't what Funimation did fall under this category as well as the Japanese's view on it? The point I was trying to make earlier applied to both, not just one specifically. So no, I wasn't changing my argument.
BTW you never proved at all that it was an accurate translation, only that it "could have been."
| Quote: | | Also, you want One Piece to be at a low PG-13 level? Err.....it already is. Maybe you don't remember the DVD set as well, but there was nothing higher than "a" or d" words. Pretty small stuff compared to what's heard on quite a few PG-13 movies (heck, even the X-men movies had the "s" word in them). So once again, I'm not sure what you're gripping about. |
Did I ever specify the exact ratting? If I did then I didn't mean to. I was more getting at the whole PG/low level PG-13 idea, speaking about both at the same time. And when I say low level PG-13, I mean REEEAAAALLY low PG-13, like a LOTR or a POTC. The only thing that made those PG-13 in the first place was the PG-13 level violence. Nothing more, nothing less. It didn't try to indulge it's braindead side of it's fanbase by throwing in naked women and curse words every few seconds.
| Quote: | | Listen, fans wanted an accurate translation compared to 4Kids' "this might as well be a completely different story" version, and they delivered. It's those fans that will make up over 95% of those buying the One Piece boxsets, not concerned parents that'll freak out if their kids hear the same language they heard when they saw the Spider-man movies. |
So then why couldn't they have done that without putting in all the unnecessary swearing? If anything, instead of being called "One Piece: Uncut and Uncensored" it should be called "One Piece: the non-hackjobed version," because really, that's all it is in the first place. That's all it's purpose should serve at all. And you see, that's one of the things that's so wrong about the state of the anime fandom today, in both countries, just like I was getting at earlier. They're too braindead to admit that this is indeed a series made for younger audiences and the whole family to enjoy, so they hide behind their "uncut and uncensored" versions to make it look like their watching and enjoying more "mature" series. And sadly enough, they're enough in numbers that the artists in both nations in the industry decide they need to help support these morons who can't seem to understand that just because it was made for younger audiences and the whole family doesn't mean that it isn't good enough for them to enjoy. Really, more artists in the world need to stand up to this crap and say "I don't care what you think! This series was indeed made for kids and for a family friendly environment, and if you don't like it, too bad! Deal with it!"
| Quote: | Also, here's a thought: said kids will get older eventually, and THEN they can watch One Piece. You're acting like Funimation is denying One Piece to certain people, and it's not. Should J.K. Rowling have toned the later Harry Potter books just so 5 year-olds could be reading it instantly? They'll be able to read it someday, have some patience. Remember people, "instant gratification" is not a good word.  |
Well in all honesty, I've only seen all the movies up to when they've been released, so I wouldn't know how "full of mature content" the latter Potter books are. Up to this point though I've yet to see anything suggestive about the series at all. And quite honestly, I can't imagine how it could. Or at least not at the level that OP's fanservice/Funi's version's cursing every other word is at anyways. And even then, I HIGHLY doubt her purpose for any of it was to cater to it's moronic side of it's fanbase who can't admit they like something that's family friendly.
| Quote: | | Also, please don't insult my intelligence. Yes, I've seen FMA, Naruto, Bleach, etc (though, FMA, a kid's show? Um, if you think episode 7 is a great way to entertain your kids, be my guest....). But you've shown weak examples. The 7th (and 8th, as it will be two parts) Harry Potter movie will be a cryfest, with characters getting offed left and right, and Lord of the Rings featured decapitations and human heads being catapulted. But apparently, parents would have more issues with language that their kids hear at recess anyway? |
First of all, when did I EVER say ANYTHING about FMA being a kids show?  If you think I did then you only assumed I did. In fact, the only kids show I mentioned in any of those examples was Naruto, only even then I'd say it's more of a young adult series like FMA and Bleach are, as is Potter, LOTR, and POTC, it's just that Naruto and Potter both cater to kids as well. OP is in the same category (and btw, if you've seen these others and are well aware of their violence levels, why do you complain that OP is too violent to be family friendly when the others aren't ). The latter 2 not so much..... (in the cases of both the anime examples and the western cinema/literature examples as well) But in the end, the reason why I bunch them all together is because all three were meant to be family friendly series, even if some of them weren't meant to cater to children. Yet all of them save FMA unfortunately suffer from the "too afraid to admit we like family friendly kids shows so we need our violence, sex, and swearing!" syndrome, unfortunately......
And also, leave the "violence is allowed but sex and swearing aren't" argument out of this. That's beside the point I'm trying to make. It's not my fault that something with a high level of violence but no sex or foul language is considered family friendly in our society. That's just a simple fact, it's not my way of belief. (although I will admit that my personal level of tolerance does favor violence more than anything else  )
| Quote: | | Funimation isn't going to cater to a very small percentage of their market. The majority of their market are teen-and-up OP fans who hate 4Kids and want an unedited DVD. And Zoro saying "darn" makes no sense. Why would someone who will gladly cut you up if you get in his way use "PC" language? Or Sanji, who will beat up people for arguably silly reasons? It makes no sense. These characters aren't meant to be "great moral examples for our children", they're supposed to be compelling characters. Toning them down is an insult to them. |
So tell me, why can't Zoro or Sanji saying "darn" make any sense? Why can't they be compelling characters without swearing every other word? I see no reason why they couldn't. It shouldn't be the swearing that makes them compelling, but rather the actual charaters themselves that does. And quite frankly, I find the statement that they couldn't to be quite shallow IMO.
| Jackmace Ryo wrote: | Perhaps the anime=cartoon=for kids stereotype 'helped' a lot in this decision. If I'm not wrong I've heard that it was showed on prime time too (weekdays 17:30).
My friend also said that a few years ago Saint Seiya and Sailor Moon also gets a lot of criticism for 'graphic violence' and 'suggestive sexual imagery' (the transformation scene). In the case of the former it even leads to early cancellation of the broadcast. My friend emphasizes that a lot of criticism used the 'for kids' stereotype.
I guess conservatives never change... |
You know, just as not all anime is made for kids, not all anime HAS to be made for older audiences. That's the exact kind of thinking that makes me mad sometimes, and it's that kind of thinking that also leads to my complaints above. So what if it's a show for younger audiences? Clearly it's still good enough for you to like nonetheless, so deal with it. |
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Top Gun
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:17 pm |
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| ...you do realize that One Piece as a manga is targeted at teenage boys, right? And that the word "damn" can hardly be considered inappropriate for that age level? It's not like the show drops F-bombs every few seconds, in either its English or Japanese forms. |
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zanarkand princess
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 1436
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:53 pm |
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| Top Gun wrote: | | ...you do realize that One Piece as a manga is targeted at teenage boys, right? And that the word "damn" can hardly be considered inappropriate for that age level? It's not like the show drops F-bombs every few seconds, in either its English or Japanese forms. |
And it's not like this audience doesn't hear these mild curses all the time. Lets face it american schools no matter what kind of area you are in are full of innocent non cursing teenagers that haven't been exposed to anything no matter what they try to say. I always thought it was hypocritical to banish something for fanservice and cursing yet take violence is if it's the most family safe thing in the world. That's why as my friend said americans are violent and the japanese are perverts. Neither should be in excess but sj is not for 7 year olds it's for teenagers and young adults and OP is hardly an offensive show. I would be more worried about death note then OP. |
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Batman3777
Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 159
Location: Down the Shore, NJ
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:30 pm |
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Ummm, the station was reprimanded for showing OP due to violence and jiggling... well you know, not because of language... so this rather LONG discussion on foul language is really... not relevant. I'm not trying to be the forum police, here, but, well, this is getting rather played, at this point.
I was just researching OP... I had NO IDEA it was soooo long. Was this network honestly planning on showing the whole series? There's no way they ever could. The editing necessary would cost more than any possible revenue... think of the overtime... (tongue firmly planted in cheek). Seriously though, I am not sure what the station was thinking... the whole series, all 300+ episodes and counting, have almost the same content in every epsiode... even if the show slipped through the Indonesian sensors once or twice... it would get canned eventually, so why even get people interested?
In any case, I cannot help but notice that fanatics (ALL religions) always seem to find something objectionable about the feminine form... and yet they are always the ones found to be molesting boys (some priests, and those taliban/Al Queda training camp leaders). So which is the "worse sin," exactly?  |
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Jackmace Ryo
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 49
Location: Southeast Asia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:25 am |
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| Batman3777 wrote: |
Ummm, the station was reprimanded for showing OP due to violence and jiggling... well you know, not because of language...
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True.
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I was just researching OP... I had NO IDEA it was soooo long. Was this network honestly planning on showing the whole series? There's no way they ever could.
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True. For anime my friend says that if the ratings go down until no more profit is made, TV stations in Indonesia would not hesitate to cancel it midway even without outside complaints. |
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enurtsol
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1310
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:52 am |
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| OnanRulz wrote: | | doctordoom85 wrote: | | OnanRulz wrote: | | Quote: | | But to be honest, if One Piece comes back to Cartoon Network, I have no idea how they'll deal with that scene. |
Did you ever see how they dealt with the Tenchi Muyo OVA? |
No, I didn't. You've gotten my curiousity, what did they do? |
If you haven't seen the OVA, some episodes contain scenes where the characters are completely naked. Since CN couldn't remove those scenes, as over half the show would be missing, the graphics team at Toonami got creative and digitally painted bikinis and bathing suits over the female characters. I imagine they'd do the same to Nami, regardless of the fact that she should be naked during a bath. |
Heh, that Toonami "graphics team" hasn't existed in years. 
Williams Street deemed it was costing too much of their meager resources doing it themselves, so they'd long farmed out the work to the anime companies instead. |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:46 pm |
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Here's a thought: is it a human rights issue when people want to control television?
When I put how I feel into words even I laugh at it, but aren't people entitled to do what they want, as long as it doesn't have a tangible effect on other people?
For example, I can eat ice cream in public. No problem. But depending on where I am in the world maybe if I hold hands in public I'll be punished for it...what is the difference between those two things?
As far as I can tell it's that people are ok with one and object to the other because they don't like it. It doesn't agree with their views on morality or whatever. Why should I bend to their will insofar as the ethics of my actions are concerned? If people do not agree with what I am doing, can't we just agree to disagree? It's not as if I'm holding THEIR hand.
Of course, holding hands tends to be thought of nowadays as a tame thing. I think there's plenty of things that you can still do in public that they'll arrest you for violating decency though. What about that? If I spit or touch myself that doesn't necessarily differ from eating ice cream other than the fact people might find it repulsive. So if I broadcast a signal that is available to people if they so choose to accept it and they know what they're getting, why should it be a crime? |
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enurtsol
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1310
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:12 pm |
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| dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote: |
So if I broadcast a signal that is available to people if they so choose to accept it and they know what they're getting, why should it be a crime? |
Broadcast airwaves are considered public, and thus, like other public institutions, the government gets to regulate broadcasts that go thru pubic airwaves. |
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jr0904
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 513
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:33 pm |
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| Mr Sinister wrote: | | maybe they can have our 4kids version. I'm sure there is nothing objectionable in that... although their ears might start bleeding.... |
WRONG.This was the reason why there is those 4kids versions.Cause they would've faced the same fines,& they would've faced a hell of a lot worse beside the fines if they didn't do those edits to show on TV.
Also FYI,I actually like the 4kids epsiodes though the UNCUT versions are better. |
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zanarkand princess
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 1436
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| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 pm |
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| Do I need to sing the theme song? well I don't think I do but we all know that half of 4kids cuts were for some unknown reason rather than content. Plus al khan or anyone else on the team couldn't have cared less about the project so it didn't really matter. They made money, no parents complained it was all fine to them so I don't think our 4kids version would have gone over in Indonesia because they didn't really spend much time covering nami up. |
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Labbes
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 742
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:11 am |
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| dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote: | | Here's a thought: is it a human rights issue when people want to control television? |
Even if I can't be 100% sure, I would say totally no. It is not a human rights issue whether you can watch TV, be it censored or uncensored.
I know that in Germany, where I happen to live, there is a paragraph in the constitution stating Censorship as forbidden. This, however, is something which is ignored, or maybe there is a hole in this paragraph I know nothing about.
In the case of censorship, the parties, who want votes, care most about parents, who don't want to let their children see nudity/violence/swearing on TV (Same goes for video games). The people who actually care are forming probably 2-5% of the population and that seriously is not enough to stand up against the much bigger censorical hypocrites.
Cut short, this is not a human rights, but a constitutional issue, which is nevertheless ignored most of the time. |
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:29 am |
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| I dunno, maybe it doesn't matter when our cartoon get banned, but when other people have that kind of power over things I see great potential for abuse. I really don't care what is or isn't legal, at least beyond the realm of convenience. Life is too short. I'd rather just adhere to some kind of ethic than follow directions. |
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night_warrior
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:34 am |
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| Big Hed wrote: | @jouttex: Yeah, I was aware Animax is cable, but i wasn't sure if the channel was available in Indonesia; glad to hear it's an option for fans there (despite the channel's awful dubs).
Anyway, I can't say I'm surprised to hear about this, given the political climate in Indonesia. |
they got one.... because i do have one =P
well, actually it's jz the KPI.... it's normal anyway.... *sigh* |
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Enerccio
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:15 pm |
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| BrothersElric wrote: | | Heh, point taken. But still, even in the case with the Naruto uncut box sets they toned down the language quite a bit. I think all I've ever heard in an entire set were like, 2 or 3 swear words or something. And even then, yeah, it didn't need to be there either. |
you're pathetic
myself I hate naruto, but hell it's a shounen anime!
What the heck would you said during the battle? Oh gawd?! |
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