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Ai no Kareshi
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 458
Location: South Africa
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 Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:29 am |
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| dtm42 wrote: | | I disagree. The Elfen Lied Anime stopped at a rather opportune time. I argue that the Manga, past the part where the Anime finished, went significantly downhill, and that the Anime was smart to end when it did. I wonder if Dorcas_Aurelia will use a similar argument. |
Don't get me wrong, I'm not praising the manga version for its magnificent storytelling or anything like that (though I don't personally think it went that downhill). But I do find its version of the ending to be much more effective, especially with regard to Kouta and Lucy's relationship – which is more or less the focus of the story, no? I have no objection to the anime leaving out those chapters (which I don't think existed at the time the anime was made anyway), but I really wish they would have handled the ending differently. |
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Top Gun
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1193
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:57 am |
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Yes, yes, YES to AJ's response. Were anime fandom one giant high school community, these are the sorts of fans I'd gleefully beat the snot out of every day (and I was the most introverted kid in high school). Seriously, get a clue, get a grip on reality, and most importantly, GTFO of our fandom. The rest of us want to watch our Japanese cartoons in sanity and peace.
(Also, Zac best not be dissin' Metallica or Leppard.  ) |
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Fallen Wings
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 50
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:37 am |
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Oh god has no one said this?
Anime better than manga:
My hime
One of the worst manga adaptions EVER!
~~~~
| Quote: | Okay, frankly, I'm sick of Lucky Star being attacked.
I have yet to see an anime since or BEFORE its appearance that captured 'conversational' humor quite as well as Lucky Star has, managed it with both a fast and slow pace, while being understandable to 'fast readers'. I'm comparing it PRIMARILY to a little forgotten sitcom on Adult Swim called Home Movies.
I put Home Movies and Lucky Star in a tied number 2 slot for best animated comedy.
...Mission Hill has the number 1 slot.
Please, PLEASE compare to me another anime that has such good slow burning jokes based around akward and amusing conversations. And Genshiken doesn't count, that show was primarily focused around the whole 'fandom' lifestyle. Lucky Star, IMHO went into the 'normal' life territory and amusingly replicated actual conversations a NORMAL family would have. It was half otaku comedy, half... american type of comedy... With focus around japanese lifestyles? I dunno, I've never lived in japan.
Lucky Star isn't one of the BEST shows ever in existence, but it is by no means bad. It's just not within your tastes angry letter writer. |
It is people like you that make people say bad things about your so called "BEST ANIME EVARRRRR!!!" Kyogissun.
I can say somethings about Lucky Star and how boring I find it but see that is my personal taste. Unlike you I seem to have picked up an understanding of others. If I remember correctly I had learn that in pre school.
Lucky Star is very different for many people. I use myself for an example. I hate the show due the fact it talks about crap all and gets no where. The jokes aren't funny, they talk too much and I REALLY don't care how people image food etc.
Then other people like the show because they like easy to understand stories, cute characters, small talk and care what the colour the sky is.
But since you ask about that ...
Some funny shows that *might* kick lucky star's comedy are:
Irresponsible Captain Tylor
El Hazard
Bleach (What I have been told)
Trigun
But these are just from what people like.
So basically the point is GROW UP! Don't complain about how good something is just because YOU like it. Next time if you want to talk about how much your fave anime is the coolest because they have conversations that interest you then think before you write. |
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Barachem
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:07 am |
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I think Kyogissun was more arguing against people who don't like Lucky Star because of personal preferences and then elevate their own deriding opinion as normative fact
You didn't like Lucky star, it didn't work for you.
You argue with reasonable arguments.
Kyogissun, while elevating Lucky Star, does admit that it ain't the best comedy ever.
So i wonder why you deride so much against him?
Let us look at what AJ, whom Kyogissun reacted to, wrote:
[quote=AJ]Basically, I'm embarrassed by the vocal minority--the ones who label Naruto, Inuyasha, Love Hina, Lucky Star, or any other overrated or flat-out bad anime as masterpieces created by geniuses, the ones who think snarfing down ramen and Pocky all day while wearing cat ear hats and watching downloaded hentai makes you cool, the ones who think knowing what "neko" means makes you Japanese... The ones who make the rest of us look like complete fools.[/quote]
Actually, i've read more negative and deriding comments about Lucky Star that positive and lauding ones.
Lucky Star is a hit or miss show, either you love it or hate it.
When i watched it, i really liked the quirky humor, the reasonably weird setting, the pandering to me as a meganekko-fan and the otaku meta-humor.
But in retrospect it was a quite nice series that had some appealing points for me, but not one of the i've ever seen.
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, which ran around the same time as Lucky Star and pandered less to my tastes, was so much more appreciated by me, that i still regard it as one of the best series i have seen.
Somehow the over the top storyline and action was good enough for me to really like this series.
What i as a liker of Lucky Star find weird is the unabated hate i have read against the show, which were/are even more prevalent than the ramblings of the fans of the show.
Tell me, how come such hate when the minority isn't that vocal to begin with. |
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Pocky_aDDict
Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 26
Location: Milpitas, CA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:32 am |
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| Autumn Swanson wrote: | | But the thing that REALLY grinds my gears is yes, the cosplayers. Cosplaying is considered an art, and some of the costumes are really nicely done, but to act like your a "star" because of how well you cosplay is really overrated and stupid. No, just because you made a gorgeous cosplay does not mean you are famous. There are several cosplayers I'm trying to hint at, practically all the really snobby, well-known ones, but I'll keep them nameless. Just because you make a cosplay for your friends does not mean you need to brag about it on a video interview. It's really childish to put your friends in that awkward position in the first place by exclaiming that they did not make a costume. Who cares? |
This sum /cgl/? Regardless, they made the costume, let them brag. They'll know how much of a douche they were later on.
| Quote: | | Then you have the people who get angry at you just because you buy a cosplay. I had gone to some convention over in Nebraska and purchased a Sailor Venus cosplay about a month in advance. Not only did I go through the horrible purchase because of how shady the place I bought from was, I had girls GLARING at me just because I said I didn't make it. Hey, at least I was honest about it, right? I don't think I deserved dirty looks from fourteen year olds who thought my costume was very nice up until that point. Seriously, why do people honestly care about that so much? |
I'll happily answer your query.
You see, there are two parts to cosplay (aka costume play): costuming and role playing. By purchasing the costume, you may only succeed, at the most, the role playing part. But since you purchased the costume, you give off an impression that you are lazy for not making your own. Sure, it's quite understandable, especially in this day and age, that not everyone is skilled with the spool and needle. But I guess cosplayers like the feeling of uniqueness for being able to both craft a costume and simulate a fictional character. Basically, you'd look like an attention whore. (Then again, what cosplayer isn't nowadays.) That being said, let's put it this way. If Cosplayer A, who spent a good month or two on their costume, got the same amount of photo requests as Cosplayer B, who bought their costume on eBay with a click of a button, you might say Cosplayer B is quite a cheat for not putting effort into their costume.
On the other hand, Cos. B might say, "well gee I'm over 9000 times better at role playing so-and-such character than Cos. A. Heck, I even look more like the character than that witch!" I have also seen this happen. It has to be said that there are quite a few cosplayers that have the ability to create grand works of art through their cosplay, which is quite respectable. But many forget the role playing part of cosplay. Yes, sometimes you have to be a dork and pretend that you are your character. Also, it really helps to lose/gain weight to better emulate your character (and yes, I did say gain; there are a lot of muscular denizens out there, quite remarkable yes). Photographers really appreciate that. Otherwise, why cosplay?
Oh right, for attention.
I'm a cosplayer myself, and I admit to have purchased a costume or two off the internet. Of course, now I have more experience in sewing I make my own costumes. I personally haven't gotten any mean looks whenever I wore a costume that I have not made myself, but I do feel a sense of inferiority, especially towards those that have created their costumes which even surpass my commissioned eBay bid. Cosplay may seem fun and games, but to many it is a passion, therefore fueling their competitive spirit. There are cosplay contest, no?
TL;DR: Cosplaying is serious business to some folk. What do you expect, coming from the anime fandom? |
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Steroid
Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 324
Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:05 am |
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So much to respond to.
-Fanservice. To my view, this ought to be the sort of thing that everybody likes and agrees improves a performance. It ought to be like color vs. black and white or talkies vs. silent films. Why not show nice-looking people showing off? Unless the point of a character is that they're *not* attractive, let them be so.
-Officially authorized versus unofficially authorized youtubing. I can almost understand how the actual creator, the person who sits and writes the anime and creates the characters, might set terms of how the anime is shown. I cannot understand how some middleman like Funimation does so. Seriously, every time the powers that be try to enforce the oudmoded methods of the past, it only strengthens my conviction that they're in the wrong on this one. They ought to stop fighting user-driven production/distribution and start harnessing it.
-Minor aside in the "getting picked on" question.
| Quote: | | (although you can't download Meister Brau, which is probably a blessing) |
The Answerman column is hopelessly stuck in the 20th century. Downloading beer, or food, or other fungible real-world objects, is a long-recognized dream of the computer geek. It is certainly not a blessing that we can't do it, and when we figure out how to do it (3-d printers?), that will be the blessing. And I expect this column to start complaining that Anheuser-Busch is being unfairly treated.
-The "getting picked on" question in general.
We all know it's true; we also know it's wrong. The otaku, computer nerds, chess club enthusiasts, super-studiers, etc.; all these people should be the ones looked upon with awe and reverence, while the people who spread their interests around and defer to social convention should be the pariahs. Caring is a good thing.
-Answerfan AJ
This answerfan is the perfect example of my answer to the question. It's not the people he's annoyed with that annoy me, it's the people who complain about them. You don't want to hear from yaoi fangirls? Don't go to conventions, or go to ones 21+, You don't want to hear from prideful otaku? Go to message boards that vet members for their opinions. (and "Watashi kawaii baka desu" is every bit as intelligible as "Me am cute idiot." It's not correct, but it is intelligibie)
In short, this writer is annoyed by people who are sure of their opinions, and he's sure of this opinion. The difference between this view and mine? I don't want him to change his mind. I just want to segregate from him.
-Answerfan NewYizer.
This one I agree with. I don't let anyone give me grief because I'm more into Aria, Kanon, and Shinigami no Ballad than the mecha anime. And cheers for the AzuDai reference. It ought to be universally loved (and where is the Yotsuba& anime anyway?!)
-As to next week's Answerfan. . . one of the things I miss about the dial-up-era Internet is that you could have list threads without explanations. Once upon a time the fact that a person liked something was noteworthy in and of itself. I'd like to go back to that. |
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rekishi
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 76
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:03 am |
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"There will always be Azumanga Daioh!"
ah so true.... when's the last time you saw mutual anumanga fans fighting amongst themselves... unless the argument is "who's cuter, chio of yotsuba"... (yotsuba is by the way  ... )
hmmm... an anime that's better than the manga it's based on...? that's pretty rare in my books... usually i buy the manga for an anime series i like, in the hopes that it will be better than the anime...
but i spose one example could be galaxy angel's anime over galaxy angel's manga... the manga bored me to tears... doubly so, because it tried to have a story... gone was the fluffy silliness and retarded humour... and replacing it was pages and pages of plot.... GA works better when you don't take it seriously...
another could be samurai champloo's manga... it was pathetic... mugan's wanted poster being 'semi alive' was the best bit in it... the rest didn't do it for me... plus it was what? 2 volume long... way to tell a story... :-/
i must admit i haven't noticed much lucky star hatred in my travels... but then again, i rarely trawl ANN's forums that often... and the forums i do visit tend to have the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything" approach...
am i a fan of lucky star...? well, i'm collecting it and i do like it... so i guess i am a fan... truth be told however, i couldn't follow it when i first saw the fansubbed version last year... an avalanche of subtitle text... so i've only really started watching it proper now that it's come out on dvd and is in english...
i don't see what the big deal is though... it's a show about cute girls having conversations about nothing (like an azumanga daoih crossed with strawberry marshmallow)... it's not overly deep, but it's not stupid either... and a lot of times, it's quite funny as well... it's just like any other quality show really... i don't get why people would hate it or hate the "uber-fans" of it... let them have their fun, no ones making you pay attention to them...
that's kinda where i stand when it comes to the "i'm the biggest anime fan ever, but i only watch naruto and bleach" crowd as well... it doesn't really bother me that much... sure it's irritating when you mention something like haibane renmei or even cowboy bebop and they stare at you blankly... but who cares... if they're happy let them be happy... when they're ready to join the ranks of 'true believers' then they'll decide that for themselves...
p.s. yotsuba& anime...? i'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet... how cool would that be...!? maybe Kiyohiko is blocking it until the manga is finsihed... if it ever will be... seems pretty open ended from what i've read so far...
volume 6...? ADV manga...?  |
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Myaow
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:12 am |
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I've heard the joke of "Fate/stay in the kitchen" before, but people don't actually use that as an argument, do they? Fate/stay night might be intolerably slow, boring and convoluted, but the norm of the universe seems to be Males= Bad, Females=Good. (Case in point: hero's MALE best friend suddenly tries to kill many people=EVIL, complete stranger albino loli who has been killing people since, like, conception=MOEEEEEE).
Not to preach at the choir or anything, though. |
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Fiction Alchemist
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Florida, USA, North America, Earth, Milky Way, Universe Twelve
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:54 am |
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Apologies to Amanda S, who I agree with, but I've slowly, over the past four years, become like the anime fan she describes. I find it hard to unify when so many anime fans are embarrassing me by association. You see, because I agree with the other write-ins, too.
Well, I agree with all of the others too, with the exception of Kenneth Thornhill and the latter part of AJ's message. I don't think we need to embrace that sort of elitism. People will enjoy what they enjoy. My favorite anime is Trigun, one of the most mainstream titles, and I would prefer to not get flack over that fact. I also have been enjoying Bleach, which I'll gladly watch in between my favorite "higher tier" shows such as Gungrave and Ergo Proxy. I can enjoy Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Aishiteruze Baby, Cowboy Bebop, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Castle in the Sky all. I can proudly love my diversity instead of thinking, "Maybe as a Cowboy Bebop fan, I shouldn't watch shonen crap like Bleach".
And I don't look down on the Pokemon fans, as much as that show irks me.
I used to be an annoying "Japan can do no wrong" sort of guy, who would disparage American animation every chance he got. That part of me died as I grew older and matured, and especially after I saw more and more weak anime. Where would I be now if I couldn't enjoy a Pixar film or an amazing show like Avatar: The Last Airbender? My primary passion stays on anime, but again, I enjoy my diversity.
Last edited by Fiction Alchemist on Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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doctordoom85
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:57 am |
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I think it's humorous that some of the answers sound like people who are, IMHO, are just adding to the "problem".
-people are fully within their rights to refuse to watch dubbed anime or subbed anime. Now, if they give people a hard time for watching dubs or subs, that is crossing the line, but that's different from just having a personal preference
-if someone wants to call Naruto or Lucky Star a masterpiece, they can do that. Honestly, this is no different from the IMDb outrage that occured a while back when The Dark Knight surpassed The Godfather in the rankings. Get over it. Everyone has different tastes, and it's not your place to tell people what they have to like.
That being said, I do agree about people acting like huge anime fans but have only seen a few series. Just as annoying as the so-called "big readers" that really only read Harry Potter and one or two other series.
Points I relate to:
-being a Naruto, Bleach, Evangelion (AKA mainstream/well known titles) fan. Most people are nice to us, but you occasionally run into some psychopath who just hates the fact that you love these series. Also, some people can't understand that we like some anime that we do recognize have major flaws, but enjoy anyway for whatever reason (DBZ and Inuyasha are my guilty pleasures)
-the "poor" people who aren't actually poor, but simply don't work. As someone who takes at least 12 credit hours at college each semester and works two jobs, I can't sympathize with those who don't work and complain about prices (note: this obviously excludes anyone under 17, or people who have a genuine good reason for not working, like parents who want them to focus on school)
-oh boy, the mecha wars. Scary stuff. Luckily, I think only 10% of the anime I've seen involves mecha, so I rarely get involved in those |
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Fiction Alchemist
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 416
Location: Florida, USA, North America, Earth, Milky Way, Universe Twelve
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:07 am |
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| doctordoom85 wrote: | | -if someone wants to call Naruto or Lucky Star a masterpiece, they can do that. Honestly, this is no different from the IMDb outrage that occured a while back when The Dark Knight surpassed The Godfather in the rankings. Get over it. Everyone has different tastes, and it's not your place to tell people what they have to like. |
Yes. I was also watching that ridiculous fight at IMDB. I hate the way the people will try to invalidate the Top 250 for not matching their own tastes in movies. No amount of people pointing out the fact that The Dark Knight will gravitate downward on the list could stop their outrage. It's called a democracy. Everyone gets to vote. People WILL vote for their favorite movies, and not what someone else WANTS to be their favorite movies. Nolan's Insomnia (an amazing movie in my eyes) only has a 7.2 at the time of this writing. That doesn't mean it can't be one of my favorites. |
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TJ_Kat
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:55 am |
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| While I don't think it would be too hard to make a list of manga adaptations that weren't as good as the anime they were based on, I'm drawing a complete blank trying to think of a manga-based anime that's superior to it's source material. unless you count hentai... but lets not get into that. |
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Lanisatu
Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Posts: 55
Location: Wonderland, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:31 am |
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| doctordoom85 wrote: | Points I relate to:
...
-the "poor" people who aren't actually poor, but simply don't work. As someone who takes at least 12 credit hours at college each semester and works two jobs, I can't sympathize with those who don't work and complain about prices (note: this obviously excludes anyone under 17, or people who have a genuine good reason for not working, like parents who want them to focus on school) |
You're generalizing too much here. There are plenty of immigrant students who HAVE to work, even when they're under 17, to help support their families. I've met many ESL students, they're not likely to be able to afford the latest anime.
That's not to to say that there aren't plenty of kids whining selfishly about prices when, if they simply learned to manage their money and exercise some patience, they could easily rent and buy. These are kids who don't need to work and do have money available. They just seem to like whining about something. |
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doctordoom85
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:39 am |
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| Lanisatu wrote: | | doctordoom85 wrote: | Points I relate to:
...
-the "poor" people who aren't actually poor, but simply don't work. As someone who takes at least 12 credit hours at college each semester and works two jobs, I can't sympathize with those who don't work and complain about prices (note: this obviously excludes anyone under 17, or people who have a genuine good reason for not working, like parents who want them to focus on school) |
You're generalizing too much here. There are plenty of immigrant students who HAVE to work, even when they're under 17, to help support their families. I've met many ESL students, they're not likely to be able to afford the latest anime. |
Hence the "people who have a genuine good reason" part of my original post. No generalizing here. |
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Bob Loblaw
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 141
Location: Tanning in Hell
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:50 am |
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I got a kick out how most of the responses to Zac's question were to the tune of:
"I hate anime fans."
I've met my share of fans from all walks of life. Some even became long-time friends, once we found we had other common interests besides animation.
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand where the anger and frustration is coming from. Oh, yeah. You bet I do. There are always, ALWAYS going to be folks who take their fandom to obnoxious, elitist, disrespectful and near-"assholish" levels. I'm sure they'd be just as bad, if they were fans of another sub-culture as well (i.e. comics, Trek, crochet). That's just the kind of people they are. Once I stumble into them, I try to tune out their idiotic behavior and keep looking for a saner anime fan to get chatty with. Why would I waste my time having a discussion with anyone who's only opinion that matters to them is their own?
But I didn't like reading what some of the responses had to say for people who mainly enjoyed/watched "the mainstream stuff" (i.e. Naruto, Pokemon, Bleach, Code Geass).
If you were to remove the more obnoxious, "La-la-la-laaa-I-can't-hear-you" bunch from them, I think you might find some fans eager to find more shows "like Naruto" or willing to take the plunge on something completely different as long as it's still anime.
We were all newbies once. Some tend to forget that. We all started somewhere. For me, back then, it was a show like Voltron and all those cartoons that had anime influences or were worked on by Japanese studios in some capacity.
For today's fans, it's shows like Naruto and... uh, all the cartoons that have anime influences or are worked on by Japanese studios in some capacity.
Funny how it hasn't changed all that much. There's just more of it now. Hmm. |
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