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fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:05 am Reply with quote
konkonsn wrote:

Looking at shounen-ai, though, you would be led to believe that. I'm pointing out how gay men, portrayed in Japanese comics, still uphold the values of masculinity and femininity in their society.


It's a little more complicated than that.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4154
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:31 am Reply with quote
konkonsn wrote:
Guess my sarcasm didn't translate all the way through. Um, no, I don't believe that.


Sorry about that. I thought you were speaking from yourself.

fuuma_monou wrote:
It's a little more complicated than that.
Quote:
leading some fans to suggest alternative meanings of the acronym, such as "Yamete, oshiri ga itai" (Stop, my ass hurts).

Laughing

Learn something new everyday.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3862
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:43 am Reply with quote
Yaoi is alright, if you're into colonic irrigation. Yuri is alright too if you're into using equipment for other than what it was intended.
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dewlwieldthedarpachief



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 235
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:07 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Yaoi is alright, if you're into colonic irrigation. Yuri is alright too if you're into using equipment for other than what it was intended.


Ha ha?
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Chesis



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:18 am Reply with quote
Yaoi is fanservice for girls, the equivalent of catgirls, moe/loli, or harem comedies. And it's just as bizarre, inexplicable, and impossible to get rid of as regular guy-friendly fanservice.

So live and let live, eh?
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lisamarie



Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 24
Location: Beer Capital of the World, STL MO
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:10 am Reply with quote
I watch yaoi has a counterbalance to all the fanservice for men in general manga/anime. It's nice to know that you're not going to see any panty shots or female characters with breasts so large they have to special order thier bras. It makes sense that yaoi is more popular than yuri because males already have plenty of general manga/anime targeted towards them. And yaoi is just so ridiculous cutesy romantic it makes me giggle like a highschool girl.
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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:43 pm Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
Anime World Order wrote:
The term for the more common, less explicit romance-centric material is "BL" or "boy's love." They used to call it "shonen-ai" but now they call it "boy's love" even though the latter is pretty much a straight up translation of the former.


I've been told that "shonen-ai" now has NAMBLA-ish overtones in Japan.

You are correct. "Yaoi" fell out of vogue in Japan quite a few years ago. Publishers only use "BL" nowadays.

Unfortunately it seems like the majority of English-speaking fangirls don't seem to get this.

As an FYI, if you think yaoi/BL is some kind of new thing, you are sadly mistaken. It has had a large following both in Japan and in the Western world since the 1970s (it was pretty much focused on Star Trek for a long time). Granted, in the West it has mostly been "underground" and circulated via fanzines and later, on the internet but it's been a popular seller in the Japanese market for DECADES.

Look up Kaze to Ki no Uta/Song of Wind and Trees, Zetsuai/Bronze, etc. etc.[/i]
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1913
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:28 pm Reply with quote
konkonsn wrote:

It brings up this unrealistic stereotype of how gay men are. "Real" gay men - the type who are only into guys - cross dress and are submissive to a "male" in their relationship (wait, what happened to the relationship of equals?). Gay men are, after all, only women in men's bodies.


I work about 10 minutes from Hillcrest, the community here in San Diego recognized as "the gay area" & I hate like hell all the jokes one hears ("Don't bend over!" You're a chick! You're safe!). I usually figure if a client uses a non-gender specific term such as "partner" s/he is gay. I don't care. It's like race. We're supposed to be past all that.

Yes, I am aware there is a genre of "Men's Love" about big, beefy guys I assume are directed at guys (unless there are that many gals interested in muscle-men porn)

konkonsn wrote:

As for the gay men that are a bit more "manly," well, they're not really gay. They're bisexual (if you want to call them that), and most of the time they only got with this one guy because (as pointed out above) he's more or less a woman anyway.

Gay men get this huge stereotype that they'd be the perfect companion for a Japanese woman...-_- Either that, or that they're good comic relief on television shows.


Yeah, I also understand Japanese believe we're more open about homosexuality here in the US (maybe we are, but that's sad considering how homosexuals are treated here)

Like there aren't stereotypes in everything. My god, how many doe-eyed chicks do we get in shojo? How many maids in the fan service titles? How many females who live to service their "master"? How much could we shorten the average manga if the characters would just TALK rather than jump to conclusions? How many shonen heroes have to battle someone, then find out they have the same goal so they can team up? Glasses=smart or shy (or smart & shy).

I know yaoi is just as fake as all those harem titles aimed at guys, Yeah a geeky guy falls in with a half-dozen or so hot chicks & they ALL sport some secret desire for him. Happens all the time. But it's my chance to read stories about hot guys in love without having to have the girl be all stupid. For some reason stupid girls are more of an insult to my female psyche than the guys I see in yaoi that I know are as fake as the average Hollywood hero.
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dangerwhat



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Northern Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Fronzel wrote:
Does anyone really think Perfect Blue is great?
It's pretty good for one of those psyche-thriller murder mystery jobs, but great?


Yeah, admitably "great" might be stretching it for Perfect Blue. I mean, its good, thats definitely true, its interesting and entertaining. But I don't think it holds up as well even to Kon's other works. Granted, Perfect Blue is an initial effort, to be fair, but I don't know. I've seen it a couple times and that was once too many. Its just not THAT good. Not great.
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dangerwhat



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Northern Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:40 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:

Yeah a geeky guy falls in with a half-dozen or so hot chicks & they ALL sport some secret desire for him. Happens all the time. But it's my chance to read stories about hot guys in love without having to have the girl be all stupid.


hmmm, don't know what everyone else is doing wrong. Happens to me all the time xD Except. Thats not actually as fun as it looks on TV >.>

Fiction is fiction, for good or bad. Yaoi titles are nice in that they can portray a romance, realistic or not, physical or not. And I think romance is something that real life doesn't have enough of.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 3862
Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:34 am Reply with quote
dangerwhat wrote:

Fiction is fiction, for good or bad. Yaoi titles are nice in that they can portray a romance, realistic or not, physical or not. And I think romance is something that real life doesn't have enough of.
Studies in the past have shown that the female mind is more interested in the chase, where as the male mind is more interested in the spoils of the conquest. This has proved to be the basic case for mostly all living species that are not a-sexual throughout living history up to the present. Romance appears to be only a human trait developed as a way toward that end, though some animal psychologists have noticed actions in some birds, and larger brained species of mammals that could be regarded as "romantic" in performance.
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dangerwhat



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Posts: 150
Location: Northern Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:08 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
(*snip* no need to quote myself, suppose :P) Studies in the past have shown that the female mind is more interested in the chase, where as the male mind is more interested in the spoils of the conquest. This has proved to be the basic case for mostly all living species that are not a-sexual throughout living history up to the present. Romance appears to be only a human trait developed as a way toward that end, though some animal psychologists have noticed actions in some birds, and larger brained species of mammals that could be regarded as "romantic" in performance.


well, as a guy, that sounds right to me. As I've said befor, to men, "romance" is a destination, to women its a journey.

Given that, I think I guess thats why I appreciate romance tales more, cause it isn't something that I can or do in real life, per se.
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UtenaAnthy



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 345
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:03 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Yaoi is alright, if you're into colonic irrigation. Yuri is alright too if you're into using equipment for other than what it was intended.


Great, because what this comment thread really needed was a bit of good ol' fashioned pseudo-scientific heteronormativity! There is no intent behind the evolution of any body part. Plus, not all homosexual men are into anal penetration.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 1195
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:31 pm Reply with quote
UtenaAnthy wrote:
There is no intent behind the evolution of any body part.

Putting the exact issue in question aside, every body part has an intent (or at least once had one, in the case of the appendix and coccyx). That's...kind of the whole point of evolution. Razz
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Dorcas_Aurelia
SubscriberSubscriber


Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 3075
Location: Philly, PA; stupid Yankees.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, great, let's dig up a week-old thread to turn it into a flame war about homosexuality. [/sarcasm]
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