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NEWS: U.S. Senate Committee Approves New Net Copyright Bill


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jr0904



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 2003
Location: New York City,New York,USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:48 am Reply with quote
Finally.the're doing at least something about this.Hopefully this would end all of those freebie blog sites and most important of all end those annoying fansubs before they make the industry go belly hop like Geneon.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2055

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:28 am Reply with quote
So rather than having the industries defend themselves, we should have taxpayers paying to defend them.

Brilliant.

And what was the reason we needed to do "something about this" again? Why does media need more protection than anything else? Are they getting an unfair split of wealth?

Aside from that, I don't think having the ability necessitates committing resources, or if it did we wouldn't have so many other unenforced laws. I don't see this getting used often. And.. um.. if you think this is about stopping fansub distribution instead of American stuff... you've got another thing coming.
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Espeon



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:50 am Reply with quote
I do no support illegal sharing of of already licensed material so as long as this doesn't effect fansubs I should be right.

http://cornyn.senate.gov/​public/​index.​cfm?​FuseAction=​ForPress.​NewsReleases&​ContentRecord_id=​cb39e0cf-​c96f-​4211-​8b02-​999496533ef9&​Region_id=​&​Issue_id=​d5f409cc-​6b91-​4b5e-​88fb-​296db3a5f55e

don't have any effect on fansubs it's just a attempt to stop illegal sharing of already licensed movies and series online.


Last edited by Espeon on Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2303

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:02 am Reply with quote
I'd say if someone slams you with a $5000 or more bill, garnishes your wages, takes your property and/or attempts to go after your parents' property, wages, etc if you are a minor and used their equipment, it might change your perspective on fansubs. Laughing

Aren't you also responsible for paying the prosecution's fees in a civil suit also if you lose?

This bill spread a wide net and also would include fansubs as it does infringe on someone's IP. Also, a lot of the anime production companies now have US offices or R1 distirbutions companies acting as their proxy (FUNimation).


Last edited by hikaru004 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gilles Poitras



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 365
Location: Oakland California

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:14 am Reply with quote
"So rather than having the industries defend themselves, we should have taxpayers paying to defend them. "

Many anime and manga companies, as well as most distributors of foreign films, don't have the financial resources to go after copyright violators. For example if you call in the Federal Marshals on a bootlegger you have to pay the marshals wages and there are plenty of other expenses before you collect any damages after a lawsuit.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1550
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:18 am Reply with quote
Here's the thing: This will have zero effect on fansubs because of the way it's set up:

This empowers the federal government to go after you for downloading. But, the government doesn't have infinite resources. They are going to have to pick and choose who and what they go after and prosecute.

Now who do you think helped write this bill? Who do you think has all the lobbying power in congress? The R1 Anime companies? Hah! The Japanese anime companies? Nope...

It's hollywood. Hollywood plain and simple. The feds will be going after MOVIE and US television downloaders, because that's who has the power in Washington DC. The anime companies are tiny, irrelevant flies and even if they reported "infringement" to the FBI, I find it laughable that they would ever waste their time prosecuting people for downloading anime when they have much more high profile movie downloaders to prosecute.
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KarmaRocketX



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:38 am Reply with quote
I second the first comment. Finally something being done about piracy.

I get so sick and tired of all of the hundreds and thousands of little kids on the internet offhandedly claiming that they watched every single episode of their favorite 10 or so anime series on Youtube for free, with a vapid smile and an uncaring giggle, as if it's water from a faucet or fruit that they are blissfully happy to pick from some kind of infinite tree of giving.

I can't go anywhere without seeing "I watched every episode of Azumanga Daioh on Youtube yesterday, it's so cute! yay! Anime smile" or "I haven't seen Wandaba Style yet, were can i find it???" "u can downod it from here and its free cost no money yay!"

You can sit right there and tell these kids to their face that they are responsible for putting people out of work, bankrupting companies like Genon, ADV, ect,who deliver a product to them which they claim to love so much.....

And they'll just flip out into brainless idiot mode and start screaming "GOOD!! I HAT the DUBBERZ LEIK 4KIDS THEY ARE EVIL AND RUIN TEH ANIME I HOP THEY GET POOR AND DIE!"


Personally speaking, i'd love to sit back and watch every moment personally unfold as this brainless stupidity from these idiot fanboy kids, puts them in a hopeless debt situation, end up in federal court and cause their family grief.

For every anime licensing company employee that has to be layed off, and every company that had to downsize until they were put out of business, i'd love to see ten, stupid thoughtless kids get their equal comeuppance and see how it feels.

Harsh? Definitely.

Fitting? Very yes.



Aww.. who am I kidding? That's not going to happen. As someone else said, it's hollywood covering their OWN asses.

They could care less about a foreign animation licensing company and their rinkydink little businesses, when Warner Brothers can put forth national manhunts to keep anyone from from downloading a 500 Million plus dollar juggernauts like The Dark Knight and possibly losing merely 2% of what it made, worldwide.


Last edited by KarmaRocketX on Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2303

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:46 am Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
Here's the thing: This will have zero effect on fansubs because of the way it's set up:

This empowers the federal government to go after you for downloading. But, the government doesn't have infinite resources. They are going to have to pick and choose who and what they go after and prosecute.

Now who do you think helped write this bill? Who do you think has all the lobbying power in congress? The R1 Anime companies? Hah! The Japanese anime companies? Nope...

It's hollywood. Hollywood plain and simple. The feds will be going after MOVIE and US television downloaders, because that's who has the power in Washington DC. The anime companies are tiny, irrelevant flies and even if they reported "infringement" to the FBI, I find it laughable that they would ever waste their time prosecuting people for downloading anime when they have much more high profile movie downloaders to prosecute.


A lot of anime nowadays are being backed by Hollywood companes like Sony, Buena Vista etc. Navarre (FUNimation's owner), Viz and Starz (Manga Ent.) aren't that lightweight either. Federal goverment only has to contract out to companies like BayTSP and Web Sheriff who already have the data and it's a done deal. The burden of proof standard is lowered in S3325 apparently so they won't have to spend a lot of money.

But don't forget that Pro-IP is making its rounds too.
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Nom_Anor



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:11 am Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:
The burden of proof standard is lowered in S3325 apparently so they won't have to spend a lot of money.

The burden of proof is lower because it's a civil case, it isn't this bill in particular which has a lower burden.

I'm guessing this won't change anything about fansubs, though. The reasons there are no lawsuits about anime tends to be more because the companies don't want to alienate the consumer base than because they don't have the resources for it. Since the government can't go suing people without the company's will, nothing is probably going to change.
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Navak



Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:18 am Reply with quote
It always amazes me how people will come and post in response to these articles, and talk about how all these people are taking food out of the mouths of the workers!

It doesn't hold up since a digital file, or loss thereof, is not a physical/resource loss like say...stealing a car or even bread.

Also, it boggles my mind that people think even a significant fraction of those watching anime on youtube/veoh/whatever would be buying anime instead of just finding something else that is "free".

I don't think anyone can provide a solid argument for how it is not stealing, but to equate it to more traditional/physical theft is being disingenuous.
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2616
Location: Out.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:43 am Reply with quote
I think that this will help stop Hollywood movie downloading and maybe some american songs, but thats about it. Although I figure the only people who will really be affected is the first time downloaders.

I'm not worried about fansubs being effected.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2303

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:45 am Reply with quote
Nom_Anor wrote:
hikaru004 wrote:
The burden of proof standard is lowered in S3325 apparently so they won't have to spend a lot of money.

The burden of proof is lower because it's a civil case, it isn't this bill in particular which has a lower burden.

I'm guessing this won't change anything about fansubs, though. The reasons there are no lawsuits about anime tends to be more because the companies don't want to alienate the consumer base than because they don't have the resources for it. Since the government can't go suing people without the company's will, nothing is probably going to change.


If the consumer base that is downloading isn't buying, then alienating them doesn't matter since they are not your customers in the first place.

There are lawsuits just not in R1. Singapore had a tough time with Odex.


Last edited by hikaru004 on Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:05 am; edited 2 times in total
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Takeyo



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 736

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:48 am Reply with quote
Nom_Anor wrote:
Since the government can't go suing people without the company's will, nothing is probably going to change.


I donno. I haven't read the bill itself, but what I've gotten out of these reports is that the government can go around suing people willynilly on the company's behalf, without even asking the IP holder for approval. Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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minakichan



Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1070

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:13 am Reply with quote
Quote:

If the consumer base that is downloading isn't buying, then alienating them doesn't matter since they are not your customers in the first place.


And if a chunk of the consumer base is that is downloading ends up buying new anime based on what fansubs they liked, then alienating them loses sales. But I'm not going to argue that way because oh look! There is no concrete statistical evidence for either side.
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rankothefiremage



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 420
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:14 am Reply with quote
First this means nothing alot of bills leave committee and never go anywhere else.

Second, lets ask our selves do we really think having the goverment give big companies free legal rep is a good idea? Honestly they have enough money, they can do it themselves. Also this is targeted for Hollywood since even with them making more and more money EACH YEAR while the rest of US industry has crashed and burned, they still think that downloaders hurt their bottom line.

So who wants a police state that guards the corps over the people? not me.

-G
www.eff.org
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