Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S. Senate Committee Approves New Net Copyright Bill
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Hmm, I don't remember seeing you even being in the ballpark for supporting the industry. Last time I remember you were a fansub supporter yourself. What's wrong with my trying to support the industry? |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1448 |
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I think it's the assumption that all industry supporters feel that they're "better," and the fansubs supporters are the scum of the earth. xD but like I said, it goes both ways. Though some fansub supporters call industry supporters fools...though various reason, for example..the whole money situation...which I will probably never understand, or will remain "ignorant" to. Or I could be wrong, Brittanica probably has...her reasoning, someway or another. I wanna hear it. u_u Speaking of out of print, I've been searching for the Tenchi Muyo OVA that seem to be scarce. Found it, though. =P |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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My thing is, I don't know how you can steal something, and admit that you're proud of it and such. And let me make it clear: I have downloaded three series in my entire life. Nothing else. Everything else has been bought. But let's put that aside, because I probably am being viewed as an elitist here, it wouldn't surprise me. The fact of the matter is that it pisses me off when these people blantantly come out and say that they're stealing from the industry, and don't give a shit about it. It only gives a life lesson, as long as it's not damaging to you at all, then you're all right. Until it does happen to you and then you're not willing to take responsibility for anything. Life these days sure has its morals set straight. Sheesh
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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My view is that fansubs should be shut down across the board, but not with my tax money. Our justice department needs to focus on bigger issues and shouldn't be burdened with becoming a proxy for IP companies. Let them bring their own cases with their own money and then have the eventual loser of the case pay the court costs. Yeah, I feel bad for the anime companies, but the US government is still TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEPT thanks to the "small government" administration currently running the show. If they hadn't already bankrupted us then maybe we'd have money for fighting copyright violations on behalf of Hollywood, but as-is I think we should start trying to pay down our debt for a change.
Sound good?
Wow. Just. Wow. I never would have thought someone here on ANN could find a way to equate criminal rape with civil copyright violations. It just boggles the mind how you could ever compare the two with a straight face. What were you thinking? Honestly, when your reasoning gets that sloppy it's really hard to read any further. |
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GaryPotter
Posts: 65 |
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Let me get this straight: you come to an anime forum and use it to make a half-assed political statement? Good for you, whatever it is you were trying to say. I'll buy DVDs if what they contain is true to what the creators of the anime intended. But if all I have to choose from is crappy butchered Viz singles, I'll go with fansubs every time. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Ladies and Gentlemen, we have us a winner here, yes indeed. Ever heard of a thing called region 2 if you want to stay true to the anime? They have English subtitles these days. I bet you didn't even know that since all you're doing is downloading crap quality computer files from often times crappy websites. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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They don't all have english subtitles, and I know that you know that.
I really very much disagree with Gary on this anyway. I don't think it's right to pay nothing to any company because some of the dvds are edited. Viz releases several things that are true to the original, even if they release some that are not. And other R1 companies have nothing to do with Viz, so it's completely wrong to punish them and the Japanese industry by doing nothing. I can understand not buying specific shows for this reason (if it matters that much to you), but buying nothing is completely unreasonable. It's not helpful to make any point except that you don't care to contribute to something you supposedly care about. It really is a poor demonstration of character. |
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GaryPotter
Posts: 65 |
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If any of you had bothered to read my previous posts, you'd see that my only fansubs are for titles not released in R1 or Viz titles that were butchered. Viz is the only company I hate, and for good reason.
Regardless, since this is ANN, i'm probably wasting my time even explaining that. |
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daxomni
Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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Fighter, if you claim more than a tiny handful of R2 movies contain English subtitles then you're just asking for a correction. I'm sure there are plenty of other paths for challenging fansubs without resorting to blatantly false claims like that.
Yeah, I probably should have included the whole ass, since that seems to be your preference. When people grow up and get jobs then issues like taxes and debt tend to become more meaningful. The Justice Department doesn't exist in a vacuum, if they're going to take on new tasks then they'll naturally have to get those funds from somewhere. My position is that civil copyright lawsuits should be funded by someone other than our already depleted treasury. I'm sorry to have brought up real-life economics and not gold pieces or Bebop Bucks, but there you go. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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You know what? You're absolutely right. Next time I'll be making sure to ask for your assistance when I want something backed up. Fact of the matter is I'm trying to make a point, and I know what stands on that point. I'll deal with the other guy the way I feel is right, and I don't need your assistance. Kay? |
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GaryPotter
Posts: 65 |
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Wow, what a chastising rebuke. Nevermind the fact that I'm probably older than you, and that I pay taxes and have a job and am married. Nevertheless, your childish insult certainly has made me see the light. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Excellent case of role-modeling right there. Living the good life while still stealing off the internet
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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I guess I would have to say the same thing I said to Navak. But from the sound of it you didn't get that far. Like I said, the nature of the crime is vastly different, but the actual case work involved is where the similarities start popping up. Of course everyone loves to forget that I said that I recognized those differences from the get-go. You didn't just not read any further, you didn't read it in the first place. If you would drop that ever constant suit of emotional baggage that everyone likes to wear and think about it for a second you would see that. How many common-place instances can you think of where the state leads a civil case in where no quantifiable physical objects have exchanged hands? Not many. So the only comparison we can make would be that of a criminal court nature, which are fundamentally different. How many cases happen when a 16 year old consensually has sex with an 18 year old, and when the state finds out about it regardless whether the two parties involved have any real disparagement, they charge the elder of the two(male or female) with rape? Tens of thousands. The state will be working the singular argument of mental distress, which I am sorry to say is not easily quantifiable, and changes from person to person. When looking at the types of arguments which will be brought forth, it sounds eerily similar to explaining why a copy of a copy of a copy traded consensually and non-sinisterly among brethren is bad. It sounds bad because the nature of the crimes are so different, one being shockingly horrible and the other not so much, but there are thousands of certain types of cases which will follow the same logical progression even though they are talking about very different things. There are not many other types of criminal cases where all of those factors will meet up. If you know any, I am all ears.
Well it is a tough line to follow, if you remember conversations we have had in the past, I fully admit that. I certainly don't want them charging in there with a broad sword. But as I alluded to earlier, where is this concept going to go without some form of enforcement? Might as well get rid of it, right? I think the problem we see with much of the internet generation is that everything for them must be the easiest an quickest way to do things. And enforcement is never easy, so to them they think it can't be done. And if it can then it can't be done properly. I think they fail to realize that hard work and tenacity can also bring about real, proper, workable solutions. But make no mistake, it is a fine line. You and I agree on that. I think it would be interesting, as just say a test run for instance. If they put together a team of say ten wheelchair bound or otherwise disabled mega-nerds, gave them a G13 pay rate, told them to break no laws(except maybe downloading copyrighted material), and set them loose with a few objectives to legally gather evidence. Not only would that be like the perfect job for them(which means they would be happy, and do a good job), but I imagine they would get a lot more work done than people would think. Or at least more than people would be willing to give them credit for. I think it is a bit of a misnomer to say the internet is un-tameable, just like I think it is unfair to say we would lose freedom in the process. Much of the freedom we take for granted right now weren't really freedoms to begin with, they were just unenforced to the point of being perceived as such. This goes back to that thin line again. It's not easy. Maybe it is a good thing that it is tough though, who knows. As far as money goes, besides the fact that it will probably take less people than many think, maybe they can set it up on the cheap since they should have ample room to streamline everything. Also damages could be set-up in a fashion so as to recoup costs, and in a sense may not cost as much as one might think in that way. Really, I don't think the businesses will want to make money in this fashion, I am sure more than anything they just want the problem fixed. Damages to them might not be necessary. I realize this sets a bit of a dangerous precedent in the fact that it might convince people that it gives government a pass to get a free check from you. Which would have to be addressed. I am just thinking out loud on this, I don't have an answer. But I do think it could be done for a reasonable price and a cost efficient manner. Another point I agree with you is that it will never stop. That's true. But I think the question that needs to be asked is can the level be reduced to generally agreed upon reasonable plateaus? Can we reach them or not? Should we even try? |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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Actually if we're giving me a name i'd probably be more collector than fansub supporter. I like to buy dvds to put on my shelf and watch once or twice. If they stopped existing I'd get a new hobby.
I support the industry with money. And yes, thats the point isn't it? But I do watch fansubs as well, and I don't fault those who do it. No one cares if you've watched once or twice you've done it as well. Why did you do that? Because something didn't finish? Because you wanted to watch something faster? Because you claimed yourself ignorant? I buy things, and yet I don't like the direction the industry is headed. I'm to the point where I don't give a shit because Japan is being stupid. Why? They bitch and moan all the damn time about how they can't eat because people are stealing. Yet they don't lift a finger to make the money they could. It won't stop everyone, but I can say with confidence I'm one of the many who would buy downloads for popular shows if they aired at the same time as Japan shortly after etc. Without region restriction, and a quality picture. (I don't know what fansubs you've been looking at man, but that picture comes out beautiful) I'm sick of Japan complaining about things they don't try to change. Sitting back and complaining and painting fansubs people as the scum of the earth without trying to make the money they donate on the daily to fansub sites to keep them running. (I should admit that I shouldn't say Japan as a collective, since Gonzo has tried to move in the right direction) I say the money issue not because it goes with my situation but because many other college students have that situation. (or other people) So in short, I'm still waiting for Japan to catch a clue. When they get their shit together, then I might care more as a consumer and (in recent times) stop buying 70% used products. I don't like when people who buy come down with the hand of God and make complete not-so-nice-people of themselves like some cats did on the previous page. I also don't like when fansub viewers like one throughout the thread make an asshole of them-self. I'm in the middle, and i don't have a problem with anyone buying. I'm not going to fault anyone for that- nor am I going to start a campaign to get One Piece un-licensed because its been edited in the dub. In the end it doesn't come down to what R1 does even though we buy from them. Japan is the one holding all the cards. And to me all they've done is fold their hand. *Off topic______ -.-; another small nitpick is font. I watch dubs with the subs on to see what has been changed. I hate yellow font, with the black lines around it. Please give me something out of Sans- more colors! a small question because i've heard different opinions. is it true that the licensed dvds use the broadcast version of anime in Japan on their dvds? Or do they use the DVD version, thats been in some case reanimated and is more HQ? |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Well, first I have to agree with Britannica. Just because we are "fansub supporters" doesn't mean we can't also be industry supporters as well.
I certainly don't want to see the industry doing badly, and I've got all kinds of thoughts and ideas that I've put out there on how it can do better for itself, or how I think the government could even possibly be involved with helping it (I actually think with the way IP is these days, it'd be wiser to have some tax money just go to the industries that need it the most). And I know the problem with my idea is similar to those of the one brought up here, that it's likely most money would go towards the American industry instead of the Japanese. I have some ideas on ways to avoid that, but ultimately I don't make law. That's kind of my response to your idea Dargonxtc. I think your goal is not that bad really. Reducing internet sharing which you believe to overall be bad and taking money from the industry makes sense, if one believes the premise that most internet sharing results in money lost. I'm not in that camp though ultimately. I think most internet sharing exists "because it can" and I think most reductions to sharing wouldn't contribute back to the industry. I think it's the very small minority that would actually start doing something because of a reduction in sharing. Now, on your idea of having it done cheaply by paying people very well who don't have other good job possibilities, I actually think that kind of thing is a good idea. I'd support it if I agreed with the goal. I don't believe it would be done this way though, and I think you know that as well. So because of that, I'm pretty sure it would cost a lot to do this. Additionally, I think while media in general has had some problems, for the most part it doesn't need government help to support itself. Maybe anime does, but not media in general. --------------------- kind of off topic, but fun to think about ---------------------- On that general topic though, I had a weird idea pop into my head that I don't know is workable. If I were to make a constitution, wouldn't a neat idea be to have a branch of government devoted to auditing? (I'd keep the 3 other branches too). This branch would question expenses, and would ensure that previous laws were followed in terms of taxation for specific purposes. Social security dollars, for example, couldn't be used for anything else. I'd probably make the group about the same size as the supreme court, but it'd mainly be there to question the executive and legislative branches. Part of their role would also be to find ways to improve current laws and offer suggestions on cost cutting measures. I know we have the GAO now, but it's authority isn't as high as I think it should be. My other idea is that anything requiring an increase in taxes should go up for a popular vote, but I think giving auditors more power might even be better... possibly. |
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