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The Fall 2008 Anime Preview Guide


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Leebo



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Somerville, MA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:50 pm Reply with quote
Uthred wrote:
Not a comment on the previews in particular, which while I often disagree with them I like them as they let you know whats out there, rather on the odd attitude being expressed in some posts. A lot of people seem to be writing off entire series' based purely on a single episode, which I find a little odd, what your doing is judging an entire series based on exposure to ~7-3% of its total content. And thats overall content, depending on its plot strucutre and delivery it could be an even smaller percentage of actual story.


Personally, I only have the motivation to watch 2 or 3 series all the way to the end of the season. So, yeah, I only give most shows 1 or 2 episodes to impress me. If they miss their opportunity, I probably won't continue next week. We're not judging the whole series by the first episode, we're deciding if we want to watch the next.
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Patachu
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1325
Location: San Diego
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Case wrote:
Has there ever been an anime of this vein that's really been successful? There have been a number of anime over the years that bring together the same very general elements: Ranging from Silent Mobius to Blue Seed to Karas to Ergo Proxy to Rental Magica...

Is there anything of this nature that really made an impact? I can't think of one.


Funny you should mention it; most of those shows you just listed I would probably rank in the C's or low B's. i.e. "Blaaarh I'm only watching this because there's nothing else on."

I'm pretty sure I sat through all of Rental Magica just because of the girls ...

zanarkand princess wrote:
I was kind of hoping we could keep these kinds of comments in the other thread and use this one to actually talk about the shows in upcoming reviews. anyway am I wrong in thinking that no one is subbing skip beat?


I see at least three groups who have declared their intention to sub Skip Beat, but that's as far as they've gotten Razz

Raneth wrote:
In a somewhat related question, how do you guys decide which shows to review? Is it decided purely by availability?


Check your local internets. Wink
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billborden



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 73
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:09 pm Reply with quote
I reference to Carl's review of "Tales...": "...but Master Ion has the most adorable lisp on the planet"....adorable lisp my fanny! If they had not repeatedly referred to him as a him I would have been certain he was a she, if you follow me Confused. That being said, this looks to be at least one of the more fun rides for this season.

(Please note, no criticism, defamation, or comment on the character of the reviewer was intended in this comment; I just couldn't resist commenting on Ion. He'd fit right in as the uke of the week in any good bishonen anime. Wink)


Last edited by billborden on Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Stretch24



Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 107
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:09 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for making this special effort, Theron, Carl, Carlo and Casey. I was afraid that after all the crapola you guys got six months ago you might swear never to compile new season reviews again.
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Uthred



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Leebo wrote:
Personally, I only have the motivation to watch 2 or 3 series all the way to the end of the season. So, yeah, I only give most shows 1 or 2 episodes to impress me. If they miss their opportunity, I probably won't continue next week. We're not judging the whole series by the first episode, we're deciding if we want to watch the next.


Thats an impressively fine semantic line you've identified Wink I thought it was clear enough that I was employing judging as an ad-hoc synonym for writing off which Id used earlier in the sentence, evidently I was wrong. Though I would be interested in what you call the process of watching an episode of something and then deciding whether to watch the next epsode or not based on your opinion of that episode. Its almost as if you were forming a critical opinon based on a certain input and then allowing said critical opinon to set your behvaiour towards the aforementioned input. If only there were a handy verb beginning with j which could be used to summarise that process Wink

Anyhow it was just a random thought so I'll drop it now.

Any groups mentioned if theyre going to be subbing the new fist of the north start series? Maybe HoM now that theyre finished with season 2?
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:55 pm Reply with quote
Uthred wrote:
Leebo wrote:
Personally, I only have the motivation to watch 2 or 3 series all the way to the end of the season. So, yeah, I only give most shows 1 or 2 episodes to impress me. If they miss their opportunity, I probably won't continue next week. We're not judging the whole series by the first episode, we're deciding if we want to watch the next.


Thats an impressively fine semantic line you've identified Wink I thought it was clear enough that I was employing judging as an ad-hoc synonym for writing off which Id used earlier in the sentence, evidently I was wrong. Though I would be interested in what you call the process of watching an episode of something and then deciding whether to watch the next epsode or not based on your opinion of that episode. Its almost as if you were forming a critical opinon based on a certain input and then allowing said critical opinon to set your behvaiour towards the aforementioned input. If only there were a handy verb beginning with j which could be used to summarise that process Wink

Anyhow it was just a random thought so I'll drop it now.

Any groups mentioned if theyre going to be subbing the new fist of the north start series? Maybe HoM now that theyre finished with season 2?


there's a term for a what a Book, or TV should do for its first episode/chapter, its called a "hook". A "hook" is supposed to grab the viewers/readers interest and make them continue reading/watching the book/TV show. I feel perfectly fine judging an entire series based on its first episode, because if it doesn't grab me then its not worth my time. Unless something gets REALLY good later i won't watch it after 1 episode. Anime seems to be the only media that doesn't get this whole "hook" idea, and the ones that do are the ones that i generally tend to watch. and considering 90% of anime is garbage(IE the same stuff over and over again), I think most fans would agree with me.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18189
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:09 pm Reply with quote
Stretch24 wrote:
Thanks for making this special effort, Theron, Carl, Carlo and Casey. I was afraid that after all the crapola you guys got six months ago you might swear never to compile new season reviews again.


Yes, but out of that crap came gems like Kurenai and, to a lesser extent, Macross Frontier. The occasional good ones make wading through all the substandard ones worthwhile, and this season seems no different. Wink
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Ryomanagare



Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 69
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:11 pm Reply with quote
belvadeer wrote:
Personally a lot of my friends and myself at Tales Brigade are interested in seeing how Tales of the Abyss does as an anime. Seems like it's already getting mediocre impressions from the get-go D=


Honestly, that makes perfect sense. This is a anime based off a JRPG, which are notorious for there slow starts. I'm sure things will look brighter soon as more of the cast joins in and the plot begins moving.

On the bright side, it's very accurate to the source material.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:19 pm Reply with quote
personally i think at this point the "tales" series is a joke to most video game reviewers and i think it'll be a joke to Anime as well. the games represent the worst of the jrpg genre, complete with feminine male lead, and the whole spectrum of hair colors. so my hopes for the anime are not high.
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Uthred



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:28 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
there's a term for a what a Book, or TV should do for its first episode/chapter, its called a "hook". A "hook" is supposed to grab the viewers/readers interest and make them continue reading/watching the book/TV show. I feel perfectly fine judging an entire series based on its first episode, because if it doesn't grab me then its not worth my time. Unless something gets REALLY good later i won't watch it after 1 episode. Anime seems to be the only media that doesn't get this whole "hook" idea, and the ones that do are the ones that i generally tend to watch. and considering 90% of anime is garbage(IE the same stuff over and over again), I think most fans would agree with me.


I said I'd leave it, but its late and Im bored. Firstly there is no necessity for anything to have a hook, while its generally a good idea its certainly not a necessity nor is it widely enough used to be considered ubiquitous. Secondly theres no such thing as tv (or cinema) hook, theres a musical hook and theres a literary hook. There's no real formal definition of a hook in cinema or television criticism, well there are plot hooks which are similar but separate from what we're talking about here (there's also scene hooks which are again a different thing). Thirdly, Im a little confused as to why you quoted my second post on the matter as you seemed to be responding to my first post on the whole thing.

Finally, Im quite aware of the reasons people but forth for using one episode as a metric for the rest its just that I personally find it strange to decide on whether the whole is worth your time based on such a small sampling. Though upon reflection its not that strange if you expand the behaviour to a macro level, after all it generally only takes a sip or two to figure out you dont like drink X or a spoonful or two to realise food Y is not to your liking.

animehermit wrote:
personally i think at this point the "tales" series is a joke to most video game reviewers and i think it'll be a joke to Anime as well. the games represent the worst of the jrpg genre, complete with feminine male lead, and the whole spectrum of hair colors. so my hopes for the anime are not high.


Yeah because a series that has had nearly 30 titles over 13 years and who's most recent title did more for the Xbox 360 in Japan than any previous title is clearly a joke. And I can see that there are excellent reasons for considering it so, I mean effeminate lead characters (leaving aside the accuracy of this statement) and coloured hair are so bizarre in the land of jrpg's and anime that they are clear grounds for ridicule.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 964
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:48 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I said I'd leave it, but its late and Im bored. Firstly there is no necessity for anything to have a hook, while its generally a good idea its certainly not a necessity nor is it widely enough used to be considered ubiquitous. Secondly theres no such thing as tv (or cinema) hook, theres a musical hook and theres a literary hook. There's no real formal definition of a hook in cinema or television criticism, well there are plot hooks which are similar but separate from what we're talking about here (there's also scene hooks which are again a different thing). Thirdly, I'm a little confused as to why you quoted my second post on the matter as you seemed to be responding to my first post on the whole thing.


Its is strongly advised in Literature in order to keep the audiences attention. Anime should have a hook as well(for on-going non-episodic titles anyway). TV shows use hooks all the time they're fairly easy to spot in tv shows that have an over lying plot(IE Lost, Heroes, Battlestar Galactica) its harder to spot in episodic TV, but its still there in any of the shows that gain popularity.

I never mentioned cinema hooks, though these easily could be defined as trailers.

and lastly i didn't want to search through the forum to quote you on your first post, so i just used your later one.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:01 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
there's a term for a what a Book, or TV should do for its first episode/chapter, its called a "hook". A "hook" is supposed to grab the viewers/readers interest and make them continue reading/watching the book/TV show. I feel perfectly fine judging an entire series based on its first episode, because if it doesn't grab me then its not worth my time. Unless something gets REALLY good later i won't watch it after 1 episode. Anime seems to be the only media that doesn't get this whole "hook" idea, and the ones that do are the ones that i generally tend to watch. and considering 90% of anime is garbage(IE the same stuff over and over again), I think most fans would agree with me.


Books and movies often don't have early hooks because they've got a fairly captive audience. Hooks are a very commonly used literary device in anything serialized in western media, especially TV series. It's a somewhat crass practice IMHO because it's has no literary purpose.

Japanese media in general, not just anime, is less reliant on hooks to reel in viewers / readers. I think the Japanese public is more willing to give stories more time to develop. Also, since the competition doesn't have a hook, it makes it less necessary. In western media, hooks are a necessity, because if you don't do it, you'll be left behind by the competition who do it.

-t
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
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Location: Colorado
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:51 pm Reply with quote
On judging an episode by a the first few...I have mixed opinions on it.

On one hand, my favorite anime, Princess Tutu, starts out interesting, but a little slow and generic. If I hadn't been interested enough in the premise to keep watching, I probably wouldn't have finished it--and then I would've missed out on a wonderful, wonderful series. Since then, I try to give any show I find interesting a chance.

That was a show I was watching on ADV's On Demand service, though, not a fansub. I think a fansub is different, because not only do I like to preorder anything I liked enough to buy when it comes out in the US, but...I just don't have that much time to watch *everything*. I've only really been an active anime fan for the last three years or so, so there's a lot of older series I haven't seen, too. Because of that, with these new series I'm mostly only watching the first two episodes or so and then deciding if I want to continue watching. For shows I sort of liked, but not enough to continue watching? I'll rent them out if they come out in the US and give them another try with more episodes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think judging an anime by the first few episodes when it's the beginning of the season is kinda what you have to do--there's just too much out there. Word gets around pretty quickly among anime fans if something turns out to be good, so you'll always have a chance to see it later, whether it's through fansubs or through watching DVDs.
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fmagrave



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:55 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Some people need a bit of story to help assuage their guilt about the porn, which is all fine and good. But when that bit of story becomes the raison d'entre in its own right, assuming monumental, monstrous proportions, something has gone very wrong. The ero genre has lost its way; it's ridiculous. So would it be too much to ask for the creators of ef ~A Tale of Melodies~ and others of its ilk to get found and hurry up with the sex in subsequent episodes?


Ms. Brienza,

You've missed the point of a certain branch of erotic games (eroge) altogether. The reason the "story becomes the raison d'etre in its own right" is because that's the focus of the product. You have mistakenly assumed that porn is the point for ef, when in fact, the story, the characters and the circumstances are what drives it.

I believe your statement reveals an underlying distaste or perhaps outright ignorance of the genre which makes me question where you get the galls to say that "Some people need a bit of story to help assuage their guilt about the porn" when you seem know so little about the genre.

I also wonder how you can so brazenly say that "The ero genre has lost its way; it's ridiculous." Unless you've actually finished some of the genuinely good games (like ef) and their accompanying anime, I believe you should refrain from making such sweeping statements.

If you know more about the eroge genre than your statement above statement let's on, please feel free to argue back. Otherwise, please do not make use such rash words. Many people read and respect ANN, and I believe that all writers here should actually know what they are talking about.

(If you feel like proving that people read/watch eroge and anime spinoffs to "help assuage their guilt about the porn", then please feel free to post it. I welcome the food for thought.)
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Patachu
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:09 pm Reply with quote
billborden wrote:
I reference to Carl's review of "Tales...":


You got me confused with the other dude whose name is one letter away from mine Crying or Very sad

Quote:
"...but Master Ion has the most adorable lisp on the planet"....adorable lisp my fanny! If they had not repeatedly referred to him as a him I would have been certain he was a she, if you follow me Confused.


That's why I prefer to think of the voice actress portraying him instead. Laughing Sucks that Ion isn't a major character; I was looking forward to hearing a lot more "sumimasen" and stuff. Embarassed
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