Forum - View topicNEWS: Funimation to Ship Single DVDs for 3 Former ADV Titles
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CCSYueh Posts: 1912 Location: San Diego, CA |
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This sounds as though they'll be the only outlet, though it's hard to say until we get closer. It would be hard for Funi to know where to ship all the dvds to so that all the individuals who bought the singles could buy them at their convenient outlet. TRSI is their site's "store" anyway so this is no different from it only being available from their own store. I would assume they'll only press about the number of dvds that were sold by ADV. If Red Garden only made it up to dvd 4 there really should have been little issue to buying the 2nd box (which was my argument). TRSI will pre-sell $30 dvds for $22.49 so $45 to get the last 2 dvds? TRSI's price for Red Garden Part 2 is $37.49. If it's a thin-pak deal like One Piece & Ghost Hunt, the remaining box should slide into the remaining area of ADV's box (At least the dvds should). If the dvds looking different bug you, turn the box around. I usually do anyway because the art on the box is usually nicer than the dvd edges (I do have the Saiyuki boxes sideways because I like those pics better.) If the space bugs you, (if there is a space) you could slide the soundtrack in if you have it. (The Bebop box I bought came with a soundtrack & I just left it in there even though I have one of those Ikea CD towers for my other cds) But it's your money. Just count yourselves lucky because Funi didn't have to do this. God knows anime & manga fans have been left high & dry before. I think manga is worse about not ending the series, be it the original author(which can't be helped) or the Publisher (which should be, but usually they don't really seem to care about pissing off the readers). No more nasty DBZ repackaging comments from any of you benefiting from this. It's all those DBZ (& FMA, etc)repackagings that's enabled Funi to be wealthy enough to cater to you on this. Enough with the "Funi did it with Geneon". Geneon has control of their product. They still exist. Look at the "Publisher" for any of the titles "rescued from" Geneon by Funi such as Kyo Kara Maoh Season 2 dvd 9 available 12/2/08- "Publisher-Geneon". Look at the Red Garden or NHK sets Funi announced "Publisher-Funimation". Geneon made the decision to finish these titles as singles, not Funi. In fact, many were set to ship when they were cancelled last year because Geneon drew a line on the calendar (Something like the first week of November) & everything after that didn't ship out so the speculation is a lot of these might have been sitting around for a year waiting for a deal to be struck. Maybe yes, maybe no, but they did get them out quick enough once the deal was struck. |
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Mohawk52 Posts: 3852 Location: Celebrating Lindsey Hawker murder suspect arrest, in Basingstoke, UK. |
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MokonaModoki Subscriber Posts: 417 Location: Austin, Texas |
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It's still an argument which fails at the emotional level for the buyer who has an investment in collecting something which is not the thin set. You are talking about people who are willing to pay up to (and over) 100% more to have something that isn't the thin set. It's not rational in the first place. It's a visceral 'otaku' thing that says "I want to spend more, and I want to get more for it". That 'more' might be having it first (no longer the case with these titles), or might be having something nicer for the shelves, but that 'more' is most definitely NOT 2/3 of what they started collecting, and 1/2 of something they didn't. Anyone who wants the thin sets can have them for $75. The people who started out intending to complete an artbox and got 4 volumes in are already out at least $90 ($130 at MSRP) and were intending to spend at least $135 to finish it. How is saying "you can have 2/3 of what you wanted and 1/2 of what you didn't for for 70% more than what the thing you didn't want costs" supposed to be a consolation? You act as the $8 final difference between $135 and $127 is supposed to be a savings. The difference is $50 (minimum - $110 at MSRP) between a thing the collector wanted and a thing they did not want. At that point, the additional $8 to get what they actually wanted is nothing. |
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| CCSYueh Posts: 1912 Location: San Diego, CA |
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If you've seen my posts, you know I was a supporter of Bandai Visual. I understand investment. I have about 2100 anime dvds of my own & have had more than 1 series ripped out from under me, sitting on my shelves never to be finished. I probably have more titles bought as singles than in boxes. I used to mention how many dvds I had until people here seemed to be pissed off by the total. I also know things change fast. Day to day anything can happen. Whatever happened between Sojitz & ADV changed the game. It's really, really, really nice Funi is taking the extra expense to do this for the fans. They'll probably be lucky to break even on the deal unbless they really cut costs with the production.
Would I spend $240 to finish Saint Seiya because ADV left us at episode 60 which didn't even finish the Sanctuary arc? Even if it meant I had to re-buy all or part of what I already had? Hell, yes. If someone issued box sets of uncut Shaman King, YuGiOh, Bobobo, or BTX would I buy them even though I have all the dvds that did manage to get released here of those titles? Hell, yes. Did I buy the nice box plus dvd plus soundtrack cd (was there a manga?) of Gundam Seed, but then decided it was just the usual Gundam title so I stopped at dvd 2, but did just get the Anime Legends box 2 (which fits into the original box nicely, thank you) & am just deciding if I want to get the Anime Legends set 1 & unload the 2 dvds I have instead of hunting down dvds 3-5? Uh huh. I've been keeping other gundam titles in the box with what I have right now. Do I have the box for Saiunkoku so this Set 2 they're offering me would technically be "screwing me over" to the mindset of everyone here? (Except it's a very strange box I refuse to use.)? Yeah. Did I only get 2 boxes of Utena so I thin-packed enough dvds to fit all 3 sets into 2 boxes? Uh huh. Did it with some other titles (YuYu Hakusho. Gravion. Saint Seiya.) because shelf space is an issue with that many dvds. I understand "collecting". I have Seiya dolls I've paid over $100 for I will probably never take out of the box (for fear of losing pieces if I displayed them) I just also understand how fast the landscape in anyone's life can change. |
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enurtsolSubscriber Posts: 1310 |
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Man, this whole scenario tastes like the New Coke.  |
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| MokonaModokiSubscriber Posts: 417 Location: Austin, Texas |
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I doubt that anyone was pissed off by the total so much as its use as some sort of hammer of righteousness to be wielded in arguments where it has no application (like this one). I buy between 100-150 DVDs per year, but it doesn't make me morally, intellectually, or economically better than anyone else. At my age, with no retirement plan in place to speak of, there's a reasonable argument to be made that it makes me sort of dumb. As for Bandai Visual, clearly they have no place in this discussion, but I can try to tie them to it anyway. They made choices in a market that couldn't support them. I couldn't call myself a "supporter" of Bandai Visual because I don't perceive direct Japanese control of any portion of the US anime market to have ever been beneficial to the consumer in any way, whether that control be held by Bandai Visual over itself, Dentsu's ownership of Geneon with its subsequent result, or the JCI/Sojitz/ARM which led to all of this current mess.
It would be a really, really, really nice thing for Viz to finish Hikaru no Go, or for ADV to finish Saint Seiya, because those titles were losers in the market that legitimately failed. As for the 4Kids and Illumitoon products, I don't think they've ever accomplished much to give the DVD consumer reason to hope for any better than they've actually delivered. For Funimation to release a product that they are already releasing, just in a different case isn't 'nice'. It's a perfectly sound decision. NHK, Red Garden, and Pumpkin Scissors didn't fail in the market until they were no longer economically viable to produce. People are perfectly prepared, willing and ready to purchase these DVDs. You can't say that about Saint Seiya, even at the $3.99 it's 12 volumes are currently going for.
These and your other mix-and-match examples you've provided are personal choices that you made. Nothing more. You could have chosen differently. You had that option.
The fact that you would use Saiunkoku Season 1 Part 2 as an example of anything near the same thing pretty well highlights your refusal to understand what was ever at issue here. It's difficult to conceive how you could have picked a more disparate or just plan bad example to back up what you are trying to say. A closer analogy would be if the only way to get Saiunkoku volume 3 was as part of a Season 1 Part 1 set that would require you to repurchase the first 2 volumes at $60 instead of just the third for $30. Nothing remotely like that is happening. I recognize that based on what you are saying that you would accept exactly that, and you would happily eat the crap sandwich, but luckily you won't have to because Funimation is doing the right thing. If they weren't doing the right thing, then the rest of us collecting Saiunkoku would be well within our rights to say "I don't want that, please provide another option for me to purchase that will reconcile with the money I've already invested." And even if they didn't, that third DVD would still go into that collector case exactly where and how it was ever supposed to. On October 21, Funimation is: Re-releasing Saiunkoku volume 1 as a standard single DVD. Re-releasing Saiunkoku volume 1 as a single DVD with the same collector case that you referenced for $5 more. Re-releasing Saiunkoku volume 2 as a standard single DVD. A DVD which will fit into that collector case just like all the DVDs will. Releasing Saiunkoku volume 3 with an "ender box" for the first 3 volumes at no additional cost over the price of a standard DVD. And then on December 2, Funimation is releasing the Saiunkoku Season 1 Part 2 set containing 3 DVDs. A set that will come on a box that should match the part 1 ender box just fine. With DVDs that will fit in the sleeves in the original collector case just fine. I'm collecting Saiunkoku too, so I'm extremely pleased that Funimation chose to do the right thing with it right from the start. Two perfectly compatible choices for collection and display, at the consumer's discretion which to choose, and a re-released collector case at only $5 more. That's a ridiculous amount of choice, and I love it. No doubt that comes from Geneon being able to continue to assert their own influence and tell them that their series can't be treated like turds, but I'm still appreciative of the result. What I don't understand is how you can look at Funimation re-releasing both the first two volumes of Saiunkoku as single DVDs through general distribution (along with a special edition of volume 1) - all of which were previously released for anyone who wanted to acquire them - and a volume 3 with a free artbox, but then go forward to claim that first-time releases of single DVDs of licenses previously held by ADV (through a single online outlet) somehow pose an "extra expense" that they'll be lucky to break even on (a spurious claim at best). |
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bglassbrook Posts: 528 Location: Gaithersburg, MD |
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NHK v6 has never been solicited before, so we couldn't (and still can't) pre-order it to be canceled. Hopefully the page will go up on Monday once they are done with inventory. The real trick will come down to whether or not it is safe to wait on the Funi sale cycling back, which will likely come down to how late into the new year they plan to release this volume. Given the limited nature, it's not worth the risk to skip the special and try to eek out that extra 10% off. |
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| CCSYueh Posts: 1912 Location: San Diego, CA |
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That argument was everyone's insistance at the absolute need to download each & every anime series they see before buying it, yet I have over 2000 dvds I've bought "sight unseen" for the most part & done just fine.
The biggest argument against Bandai Visual was cost. The issue we're debating is cost. Bandai Visual brought over titles no one else wanted to bring over. Of course there would be a higher cost involved. Poster after poster would say "I can get [American tv series] for $25 per season. Why spend that much on a title with a smaller audience?" I call myself a supporter because I bought Haruka, SRW & Demon Prince Enma & they are worth every penny I paid. Of course I would love to have paid less, but I understand the marketing issue of paying more for a title from a smaller comapny. Look at FLCL. I actually could care less for FLCL, but the title was (is?) very pricey for 6 eps. If it were a title I enjoyed, I would have paid the price.
As someone who pre-ordered the Funi-distributed 4Kids uncut YuGiOh & Shaman King, I can tell you sales had squat to do with what happened. SK fell to YuGiOh which 4Kids complained they saw a drop in the sales of the cut version when they announced the uncut version. After a year or so of my pre-orders not being filled, I told RightStuf to drop the orders. 4Kids was greedy enough, they thought we'd buy the cut & the uncut stuff. Illumitoon is sadly just another case of a start-up company going belly-up.
Funimation is releasing dvds 1-4 of Red Garden & 1-5 of NHK as singles? News to me. I thought their original plan was to release this, like One Piece & Ghost Hunt, in box sets. Releasing these as singles is nice for the fans, but technically it's more of a boost for the competition (ADV)
I run into a lot of Saint Seiya fans. It's more ADV had too much product at that time, allowed for a horrid version to make it onto the air making people who never saw the uncut version think they knew all about it because of the green & purple "spiritual Energy" they boys leaked that was originally red blood & everyone knew it. People who love Seiya, love it. They're still making it in Japan (in pieces, yes, but we're seeing the Hades Saga finished slowly over there) I also don't see too many people paying $50- over $100 for 6 inch Red Garden dolls on E-Bay. Getting a dvd for $3.99 from ADV's sales isn't that big a deal. We got almost every ADV title (& Geneon) for as low as $4 per title at TRSI's "25 for $100" sales they held for a couple yrs there. I got Chrono Crusade, E's, Eva, Divergence Eve & Gilgamesh dvds for the same $4 you're disparaging Saint Seiya with. Guess Evangelion Platinum edition is crap, also. No one must want it. No possibility ADV pressed too many copies. And considering your claim Saint Seiya "legitimately failed", it's interesting there are those who claim it was actually Toei who screwed us over on that one "refusing" according to those sources to sell more Seiya. I sort of question this. THe only scenario I can see is A-Toei actually demanding more money at that point of the deliberations or B-ADV requesting a price cut due to lower-than-expected sales. Saint Seiya is actually a fairly popular title in other parts of the world. You have access to sales numbers that you know how well Red Garden, NHK & Pumpkin Scissors did? Impressive. Those seem to be closely guarded secrets
Which I don't have from other titles dropped by their original licensee. No one's offering me a box set of Air Master.
Actually I was just showing a shift mid-release, There really is less similarity to Red Garden, etc., because Saiunkoku remains a Geneon product. It's more like Manga leaving us hanging for a year not releasing the 5th & final Tactics while selling a box set at Suncoast "exclusive" with the "not available anywhere else" 5th & last dvd. Thank god Manga finally released the last dvd so we weren't forced to buy the box after getting the other 4 dvds separate BECAUSE ONCE MORE Funi didn't buy out Geneon. When I look at the sleeve of Hellsing Ultimate Vol. 4, the ONLY name I see is "Geneon" When I look at the sleeve of Kyo Kara Maoh Season 2 DVD 7 again, I only see Geneon's name. I fully expected to see Geneon up top & Funi's logo down below as with Kadokawa's The Third (with TRSI's logo below), but no. Yes, these might be left over from last year, but I would expect if these were titles bought by Funi, then at least they'd have slapped a Funimation sticker on it (pasted over Geneon's logo), but no.
Funi isn't selling Saiunkoku. They are distributing it only. Go to TRSI's "DVD's by publisher" Look under "Funimation" for all these Geneon titles you insist they are selling. I find no Kyo Kara Maoh. I find no Saiunkoku. I find no Shonen Onmyoji.
http://www.rightstuf.com/
http://www.rightstuf.com/
http://www.rightstuf.com/
http://www.rightstuf.com/ Looks like that says "Geneon" to me. So it was Geneon's decision to do this, NOT FUNIMATION's.
http://www.rightstuf.com/ Looks like that says "Geneon" to me. So it was Geneon's decision to do this, NOT FUNIMATION's.
I appreciate Funi picking up where ADV left Geneon hanging, but it is Geneon who is releasing the titles thru Funi.
Because I fully grasp the concept that Geneon was looking for a distributor in the US when talks broke off with ADV last fall left them hanging past the deadline the Japanese parent company wanted. I fully grasp the concept Funi stepped in to become that DISTRIBUTOR, but they have NOTHING else to do with the titles. Maybe they are refusing to distribute ALL of Geneon's catalog at this time, but they are only distributing the product prodiced by Geneon. FUNI ISN'T DISTRIBUTING THESE TITLES FOR ADV. The company that owned them, for whatever reason, took their ball & bat away from ADV & gave them to Funi. ADV retained all their dvds that they produced. Funi has to produce their own product. You all seem to see nothing wrong, in fact EXPECT Funimation to support their competition who may or may not have produced these dvds lawfully (Go look up the Biblos/Libre/Be Beautiful mess). In fact, I'll nutshell it for you since I don't doubt you may not be into yaoi. Biblos licensed titles to several publishers, but when the owner's computer business failed, it turned out he had been supporting it with Biblos's profits so Biblos went bankrupt. Libre came in & recued the zines in Japan, but forced all os the US licensees to re-negotiate the deals. Be Beautiful chose to interpret the law as their contracts with Biblos as allowing them to continue publishing. Libre announced there was no contract with Be Beautiful & thus they were bootlegging the product. None of those titles have seen the light of day in the US since. Be Beautiful also seems dead in the water. Before you insist there is no similarity, the similarity is a Japanese owner of a product disputing the right of an American licensee to produce a title. Since no one posting here is privy to the contract Sojitz had with ADV, we don't know who's the bad guy. It doesn't have to be Sojitz as everyone here seems to be assuming. It may not be ADV. But Funi has no reason beyond making some fans of a competing company happy to print these last dvds. If we see in the future they do release all of these titles as singles, then I'm wrong. Otherwise, they're doing you all a favor in the name of winning you over.
These were ADV titles, not Funi so the only pre-sale product you could have would have been ADV, but they can't sell what they don't have. Since Funi's just announced them, there should be no issue of being cancelled. Last year TRSI cancelled all of the Geneon titles pretty swiftly & so I did have to re-order all of them. Yes, I had ordered them during a Geneon sale so the price was better than what I finally paid for them, but I could always wait for another Geneon sale & save the couple bucks if I really wanted to. |
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| CaitSubscriber Posts: 312 |
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I know I said that I considered this issue settled between us since the situation was moot and that I would drop the argument, so I apologize for bringing up the reins of discussion again, but I had to comment here. You act like Funimation and ADV are in some sort of actual competition for consumer loyalty, as if the anime/manga licensing market is even big enough for a thing like that. It's not like "making ADV fans happy" is their goal. The are "making Red Garden, Welcome to the NHK and Pumpkin Scissors fans happy." They may not be required by law to do so, but it would certainly be in their best interest not to alienate the very vocal fanbase that exists in the anime/manga fandom. You keep acting like this is some sort of "gracious favor" that Funimation is granting to "appease the whiners" in the community. Do you really think they would take a financial risk like this just to make a "handful" of fans happy? Obviously they decided it was in their best financial interest not to alienate the fanbase, regardless of your, obviously jaded and resigned to accept whatever you are offered, opinion on the subject. Some of us expect better of the world and I'll thank you not to try coercing me to bring my expections down to your level simply because you think they should be lower. Ralph Nader expected car manufacturers to make cars safer by having seatbelts. He did research, he spoke to congress about it. Before long all car manufacturers were putting seatbelts in their cars and the world got just a little bit safer. Was he a "whiner" for wanting something that was not a law to be implemented to make people safe? Should he have just resigned himself to accept that the world was a "scary and brutal" place as you have continued to claim in your posts and given up the fight? Anime and manga are of course not comparable to the safety of people in cars, but when we see something that we think is an injustice to us, as in, when we feel like we are being extorted (being told we have to buy things we already own in order to get things we want) we have the right to use the means at our disposal to complain and to try to change things (ie: discussions on forums and letters to the company). You are clinging to the notion that Funimation owes nothing to anyone and that anything they grant is some kind of blessing that we should praise them for as we place them on a pedestal. They relented because they decided that they did, in fact, owe the fans of these series something, or they wouldn't have done it at all. |
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| CCSYueh Posts: 1912 Location: San Diego, CA |
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They are competitors just like Ford & Chrysler. There are limited dollars in the hands of anime fans & ALL the anime & manga companies ARE in competition with one another. I seem to recall a comment posted on this site from either Funi or MediaBlasters that the price of licensing titles had dropped since ADV & Geneon were absent from the scene which was welcome because prices were insane there for awhile. As I recall there was mention ADV & Geneon drove prices up. Yeah, they're all buddy buddy.
All I've been saying is no one on this planet OWES anyone else squat really. (Yes, even some families are pretty horrible, aren't they?) Obviously businesses, in the interest of creating customer loyalty, will provide good customer service including some perks. They don't HAVE to offer you a punch card so you can get a free cup of coffee after you've bought so many. They sure as hell don't have to take competitor's coupons, though I know of a few businesses that do in my city.
God, people accuse me of comparing apples to oranges. You're actually comparing a product that SAVES LIVES to entertainment. And no, I don't agree with everything Nader has done. I'm fine with seat belts. Why the HELL do I have to have that @$^&*%$% stupid airbag? I sure as friggin hell don't want it. THANK YOU SO FRICKEN MUCH RALPH NADER! I have buckled my butt in since they passed the law so why do I need an airbag? I knew another gal who had one of those automatic seat belts she despised because they were damned annoying. My supervisor looked like she was hit by a bus when her airbag inflated because people under a certain height actually take a lot of damage from the stupid things.
The recurring argument has been "Funi gave us singles with the Geneon titles they bought so they OWE us singles with the ADV titles" when it's another case of apples & oranges. It's like walking into Target(or someone who doesn't offer price matching) & expecting them to sell you an item at Walmart's price. That was GENEON releasing singles of their own titles. OF COURSE it was in their best interest to appease the fans who had been patient enough to wait almost a year for them to settle their distribution problems. (Considering what's going on with the stock market & prices in America, can we say now they were wrong to try to save a buck by closing down their US office? Most everyone's saying recession if not depression[depending how doom & gloom they are]) Funi releasing the last 1 or 2 dvds of a title makes sense in what business world? Tokyo Pop has rescued a few manga titles from a couple other companies & re-printed ALL the volumes already released by the other companies. They didn't pick up Tactics at Vol 3 even though ADV released the first 2. They picked up Getten Angel & Your & My Secret at vol 1, not vol 2. Peacemaker from Vol 1, not 4. From the info we have at this time Funi isn't releasing dvds 1-4 of Red Garden or 1-5 of NHK. ADV released them & made the money off them. Funi offering these volumes only encourages sales for their competiton ADV. Do YOU see Walmart out there running tv ads for Target? Don't think so. If you're looking for something they don't carry, the SALESCLERK might refer you to the competition, but the company is there to sell more than their competitors. They're probably supposed to try to switch you to a similar product they do have in stock. Yes, Funi wants to have higher sales than ADV. Yes, they are competitors. Yes, their selling these singles is a favor to you just like a store taking the competition's coupons. Why should you EXPECT them to promote their competitors? And yes, you should be grateful to Funi for this. People scream bloody murder all the time at the amount of yaoi that gets licensed but that's because we support the companies that bring us our yaoi. Most of the yaoi publishers that have gone under have either been largely OEL or had outside forces at play (Be Beautiful I discussed above, although they were part of CPM which fell to Musicland. Drama Queen was a start-up who released maybe a half-dozen titles & never really got off the ground) Does it hurt so bad to be appreciative when a company goes above & beyond the call of duty? |
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| CaitSubscriber Posts: 312 |
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They are not competitors "just like Ford and Chrysler." Ford and Chrysler are multi-billion dollar car companies. They have the resources to actually regard each other as a threat. If there were only Ford, Chrysler and maybe one or two other car manufacturers in the world and they all catered only to a niche market of interested car lovers, maybe I could accept the comparison, but in that instance it would only help defend my argument since the lack of a real market or real competition would render any corporate competition worthless. When there are only 5 or so English licensors of anime the market is big enough for all of them. ADV and Funimation gain nothing by devoting any resources to trying to outbest each other in the market. In fact, devoting any resources to any such thing would probably not only be fruitless, but would take away from areas that could be used to actually help them stay in business. The only time they ever compete is well before the license is announced (as in, vying for the licenses themselves), which is often a moot point anyway, since a lot of Japanese companies in both manga and anime deals directly with specific English licensors over and over again as part of "partnerships." Sure, there is some competition at that point in the process, but to compete over the released product? That's stupid.
The word "owe" means to be "indebted." It isn't a legal term, it is a social one that is often implied to be of "moral obligation." You can "owe" someone an apology. Are you required by law to apologize to them? No. But you can be socially expected to do so and if you choose not to you may be considered in a negative light (which can hurt your reputation). When Starbucks gives you the punch card and you faithfully fill it up and then go in for your free coffee and they tell you they are no longer honoring them, you have the right to be pissed off, even if the card states "we reserve the right to cancel this offer at any time." It's a d*** move to promise someone something and then change their minds (and Funimation did originally lead everyone to believe that they were going to release these DVDs as singles and then when the first batch was set for release everyone finds out that is not the case, which is why everyone got angry in the first place). Maybe not from a legal point of view do you have recourse, but certainly from a social point of view there would be an expectation of honoring the promise or offering at the very least an apology for being an a**. The idea that we are not allowed to ask for something in the hopes that it will result in our favor is ridiculous. The idea that "owe" means "legal obligation" is also ridiculous.
As you can see, I was doing no such thing as comparing "entertainment" to the safety of lives. My comparison was specific to the idea that we have the right to stand up for the things that we think we deserve.
You know, when I think about how many lives have been saved by airbags the idea that we should take them all out of cars because a few have been injured by them doesn't seem all that meaningful. Of course, this is exactly where the comparison to "entertainment" has to end, considering the intricacies of why seat belts or airbags are or are not important have nothing to do with whether an anime company "owes" something to the fans of a series it chose to license (emphasis on the voluntary choice to pick up a title previously released by a different company). The only comparison to be made is in the right an individual has to complain about something and try to change it for their benefit and the benefit of others who share the same issue. Incidentally, it is perfectly legal for motorists to disable the airbag in their cars if it poses a serious threat to them in an accident. Some information on airbag deactivation: http://insurance.yahoo.com/
Nope, us complaining that Funimation wasn't charging the same prices as ADV was for the same product would be comparable to what you are saying, and no one here is doing that. Our argument is that they are not offering the same product. We complained and the company decided we were right and are now offering what we wanted (that's called "moral obligation").
Obviously in theirs, considering that is exactly what they are doing or they wouldn't be doing it.
Well, there could very well be many reasons for Tokyopop's choice to do that. Again I will fall back on an earlier argument that DVDs and books are not comparable, even though I will ackowledge that they are linked by virtue of being a part of the same fandom. When ADV lost the licenses (for whatever reason and I am not trying to start that fight again) they asked that whoever was to pick them up in the future that they hoped the series would be continued with the same dub casts, etc. that they were using (this is a quote I read here on ANN, in fact). When Funimation picked up the titles they agreed with that idea (maybe they "owed" that to the fans?). Before you argue, "well, of coure they would keep the continuity of the dub cast to finish already dubbed series," firstly, Funimation isn't redubbing the titles from the beginning, they are taking what was essentially ADVs dub work and releasing it themselves. If they were completely starting from scratch and not re-releasing ADVs work (the legality of which is also a question in itself) I don't think that the collectors of the series that were angry about this issue would be angry in the same way. We would be angry that Funimation was choosing to spend money to completely change a generally regarded to be adequate product that was almost finished anyway, and that we already owned most of. In that case we would not only have to finish a product in a different format, but with a different English cast on the last volume of the thing (unless you are going to argue that "well, then just replace the whole thing," in which case you really are nuts to think I'm going to do that). That would be a bad business decision on their part, to spend money doing something no one hated in the first place, especially when the original dub company not only didn't object, but specifically asked that their dub be honored, don't you think? If you'll also remember, when Funimation picked up One Piece they completely revamped it, cast a new cast and everything because they did not want to associate their work with the heavily edited 4Kids piece of garbage that the fandom reviled. They weren't expected in that instance to retain the original work because it was the fans who did not want the original work. The fans wanted something that wasn't hacked to sh** and Funimation tried to give it to them (regardless of what anyone might actually think of the Funimation dub) because it was in their best financial interest to do so because the fans "demanded" it. The fans felt it was "owed" to them. Now, let's talk about Tokyopop. Why did they re-publish all those books from the first volume? Well, first of all, not only are they under no obligation to use the original translation (conceded), they have no right to without buying it from the original English publisher. It would be like Tokyopop using the scanlation translation for a title and releasing that (ignoring the fact that a scanlation would probably be of abysmal quality compared to an actual professional job to begin with). it is simply not legal. Secondly, if Tokyopop disagreed with the original translation or felt like they could do it better, they have every right to try (especially when there is zero fan reaction to the choice). If they can't use the original translation and they want to change things anyway (who wants to have to keep to someone else's editing conventions?), of course they are going to start from scratch. Furthermore it costs a hell of a lot less to re-translate a manga than it does to redub an anime, so the financial risk of "changing things" is also much less. In anime there is also one more issue at hand, and that is the fact that in a book you can't "hear" the characters except to give them voices in your own head. In an anime, characters are voiced and I don't think there is a contention here to assume that two English licensors who faithfully dub the vast majority of their licenses were planning to dub these too, so any argument of "well just watch the sub on the DVD" doesn't mean anything, to them anyway.
How is that possible? it is clear they are only going to do a limited print run of these volumes as evident in the fact that they will only be available through TRSI. I seriously doubt they are planning to print the same number of discs for the last couple of volumes as were available for the first 4 or 5. Basically, Funimation is only offering DVDs to the people who already own the first part of the series, not anyone who might be interested in the previous product put out by the previous publisher. For those people who do not already own the first 4 or 5 DVDs Funimation is offering a cheaper product that is essentially the same thing (in a different package). There is absolutely no threat of losing money to the "competition" here.
In summary of my own argument: 1. No, I don't see Walmart and Target doing commercials for each other, but they are million-dollar industry retailers, not publishers of niche market DVDs (yes, anime is a niche market). 2. Funimation is doing no such thing as "referring" people to ADVs product. They are, in fact, releasing ADVs product (they are using ADVs dub of the already completed volumes in their boxes, aren't they?) for their own profit. 3. Funimation doesn't want "higher sales than ADV" they want "higher sales, period." 4. They are competitors like two friends on a soccer field are competitors. When the soccer league consists of 6 teams and is struggling to afford the cost of playing the game, it doesn't matter who wins the indivudual games. If one team falls because it fails to succeed in games or in financing the team, the whole league suffers. 5. It's a favor like being expected to let someone into a traffic lane, not doing it will make peope think you are a prick and not want to do anything for you, either. It is in everyone's best interest to be cordial and considerate of others, especially in this case, considering there is a financial risk involved as well. 6. They are not promoting their competitors!
Above and beyond?! This is the situation: ADV: Damn, we can't release the rest of these DVDs. Funi: We'll do it. Funi: Oh. but we don't actually want to do it, we just want to release them as boxes. Fans: WTF?! What about all of us who already paid for most of them! We want the last singles! Funi: Well, if we print 'em, will you buy 'em? Fans: YES! Funi: Okay. Fans: Thanks! When Funimation said they weren't going to release the singles, people got angry and complained. Funimation relented with the understanding that there was, indeed, a market, if not a small one, to release the last singles. The fan reaction was nothing but postive and, indeed, grateful. You seem to be caught up in the semantics of the word "owe." as if only a legal obligation is an obligation that matters. Social and moral obligations matter, too. They matter to me, and even if they don't matter to you, they matter to a lot of other people, enough so to make Funimation rethink their position on these DVDs. EDIT: I had to clarify the fact that Funimation did not actually ever outright say that they were going to release the episodes on single discs, but the fact that the Geneon titles were being released as single DVDs led fans to assume that the former ADV licenses would also be released in the same format as they had been before because Funimation failed to ever clarify that for anyone before they started setting release dates for boxes and not singles. Last edited by Cait on Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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_Emi_ Posts: 188 Location: Damn you! Where have you been!? |
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They are hold overs from when they stopped distribution. They didn't do anything to the logo because even something as simple as a sticker would take up time and money that just isn't worth the effort. It's easier just to ship out the disks as is. My box set of Shana has the FUNimation logo underneath the Geneon logo on the back of the box and I'm willing to bet that the other box sets do also.
That seems to be only at Rightstuf. I've checked Amazon, DVDEmpire, DVDPacific, Animenation, and Anime Castle. They all list just FUNimation while the Anime Corner Store lists both Geneon and FUNimation. |
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| CCSYueh Posts: 1912 Location: San Diego, CA |
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| Ok.
So as I understand it, I've been wrong for most of my 48 yrs on this planet. If I open a coffee shop as a single, stand alone facility & YOU open a coffee shop across the street as a single, stand alone sort of thing, we aren't competitors because we aren't large corporations. Wow. We are to completely disregard the comments of
when he posted over at AoD (as linked to on page 7 of the other thread on this topic
indicating Geneon is calling the shots on their dvds, not Funi. There's no difference between the ADV & the Geneon deal. All the anime companies are best buds (Don't know why I got that "if looks could kill" glance from the MediaBLasters rep when I asked him if they were connected to CPM as was the incessant rumor back in the day. They're all so friendly) So the reason the Funi reps are insisting Geneon isn't dead is they all have so much love for one another, they just feel this incredible need to keep Geneon's memory alive. No, you all don't need to show any appreciation whatsoever to Funi. They owe it to you all, after all. All the yaoi companies are just crazy. The fans support them. They license more titles. What a stupid relationship can that be? |
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| CaitSubscriber Posts: 312 |
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How is that what I said? I said the anime licensing market isn't big enough for ADV and Funimation to be a serious threat to each other. There are enough anime customers for both of them to exist. Two coffee shops across the street from each other (that sell nothing but coffee) would only be in direct competition if the market forces for coffee in their area was a certain size/type. How many people live and work on this street? Can the area actually support two coffee houses? Is it in a city where there are a hundred other such businesses everywhere? Is it in a rural town of 1,000 people? You need to clarify your analogy before applying it to this situation.
What are you talking about? Is this a response to anything that I implied? When? Why are you so hung up on the idea that we simply don't "get it" that the Funimation/Geneon deal is completely different from the one over former ADV licenses? We GET IT. The problem is, Funimation was never once clear that they ever intended a different strategy for the former ADV titles, so everyone was LED TO BELIEVE that it would be treated similarly and when it was not, everyone, surprised, reacted as a group that felt betrayed. We complained and that complaining led the company to re-evaluate their decision. When will you acknowledge that Funimation agreed with the fans? We don't have to buy DVDs we already own to have DVDs we want. Let it go.
It's possible that you misread his reaction and you got that glance because he was sick of being asked over and over and over again the same damned question. There is a difference between healthy competition and trying to destroy other companies. Don't assume Media Blasters is inherently evil because they don't want to be mistaken for their competition.
Who said that? This is about Funimation and ADV's former licenses, not Geneon. This isn't about "love" at all. When did "they do not regard each other as a threat" get translated into "they love each other?"
Who isn't showing appreciation? I sent a very nice letter to Funimation several days ago, in fact (would you like to read it?) to thank them for reconsidering their decision and to let them know that fans truly do appreciate what must be somewhat of a financial risk to them. Please don't assume we are all a bunch of ungrateful brats. Many of us do care that we got what we demanded in the end.
I don't understand. What does that have to do with anything? Please clarify your meaning. |
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| MokonaModokiSubscriber Posts: 417 Location: Austin, Texas |
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Since both the original article and the context of the thread make it clear precisely which singles are actually being released, this example of sarcastic obfuscation around whatever point you intended to make seems completely unnecessary. What I take from this not-actually-clearly-stated position is that Funimation's release of final single DVDs of these series is somehow going to create a demand for ADVs previously released single DVDs and artboxes. That demand will somehow be satisfied from unreturned stock of items that ADV is no longer allowed to distribute. That demand will swell to the extent that it will reduce demand for the thinsets that Funimation is releasing for the entire series. If that's the crux of your position, then I can confidently state that I merely disagree.
Your sarcasm is misplaced, and your conclusion, had you actually reached it is not impressive at all. The information is not that difficult to come by. At all. |
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