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Honorific use in anime.

One sub I saw (I can't at the moment recall which one), had X-sama translated as "Oh Great X", a useful translation since the situation involved comically exaggerated worshipful respect.

- abunai

Hmmm... actually, I would hypothesize that it is a characteristic of pre-urbanized/rural society that is retained in the language for a while after urbanization, then disappears.

I'm not sure an emphasis on honorifics even exists in American society. Aside from putting a title in front of peoples' names like a mister, miss, or misses, there's nothing else other than referring to our family members by either title (father, mother, uncle, aunt, etc.) or first name (as you would to brothers, sisters, cousins, or whomever you consider of equal social status).

From my experience in Asian cultures, the whole concept of honorifics is about respect, seniority, and is just a resulting by-product of long-standing tradition. It probably seems very subtle and old-fashioned to a lot of folks who aren't familiar with the practice in general, but that's the way it turned out after so many years.

I don't see how dub scripts can ever truly capture the same importance because our society just never really had that kind of subtlety in the first place. If you call someone you really, really admire -sama, what else are you going to call them? Lord? Mr.? Oh, Great One? That would just sound silly, don't you think?

It's not anyone's fault that a dub script can't properly translate such a nuance, but it's better than leaving it there and making the entire thing sound awkward because of differing social norms.

Also, I've seen variations (I think) of some honorifics, that I don't understand. IE "tan"

abunai wrote:

I haven't seen Gunslinger Girl, so I don't know what relationship these two have -- but I feel I must point out that nii-san doesn't have to mean "older brother" with an implication of family relationship. It can be a general term of respect, just as nee-san, oba-san, oji-san, obaa-san and ojii-san can be.

Yes, I concur. Asian cultures also use honorifics with a certain degree of "casual respect." For example, in Lao culture younger children are supposed to address older children as "big brother/sister" and vice versa, or parents refer to older parents (grandparent age) as "father/mother." Well, it's a little closer to "pops" or "ma'am," but it's an example of the system, regardless.

You can actually see examples of this in American culture when same-aged people say "bro'/brother/sis'/sister" or the aforementioned "pops/ma'am," though its usually a result of either a tightly knit community or very friendly relations/familiarity with the other person.

Also, I've seen variations (I think) of some honorifics, that I don't understand. IE "tan"

Super_Vegeta wrote:

Also, I've seen variations (I think) of some honorifics, that I don't understand. IE "tan"

My understanding is that -tan and other "honorifics" are used, usually by girls, to convert names into cute nicknames - the most famous example probably being the long-running joke of Fai's mischievous intentional misuse to get a rise out of the very non-girly Kurogane in Tsubasa. If you see an honorific you don't recognize, it's probably likely that's the reason.

Super_Vegeta wrote:

Also, I've seen variations (I think) of some honorifics, that I don't understand. IE "tan"

The -tan honorific is just baby-talk for -chan. Very small children often cannot pronounce the "ch" sound properly, so when they attempt to say "Yuki-chan" it comes out as "Yuki-tan". If used by someone other than a small child they are, depending on the circumstances, probably trying to be extra-cute, sarcastic, or teasing.