Forum - View topicNEWS: Iowa Collector Charged for Allegedly Obscene Manga
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FrederickIIofHohenstaufen Posts: 23 Location: Somewhere in California |
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| grgspunk, i have a feeling u have not read the official charges...
this is not 1st amendment material, its not protected under the 1st amnedment because it went through the postmaster's office. if u refer to my earlier post (the one which for no reason i can determine was reduplicated 6 times) you will see that it is a violation of the shippment of objectionable material... please, before you rush to conclusions, do your homework |
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| grgspunk Posts: 131 |
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I'm sorry, but I thought this was primarily an obscenity case? You know, for the possession of obscene material? If the whole shipment thing is true, then it only convinces me further as to the fact that it's pointless to debate. But not every law deserves to be on the books, you know? If you think the law is unreasonable, maybe worthy of being overturned, here's your chance to help make some real change. Last edited by grgspunk on Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cait SubscriberPosts: 312 |
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Well, I suppose unfortunately for you, I have no particular interest in "convincing" you (though, how could I possibly know how the CBLDF accepts donation money...), not that I am sure what I am supposed to be "convincing" you of. I came to this forum to try to better understand the situation and get other people's opinions on the subject. I don't feel like it is my obligation to defend my "support" of anything to any particular person simply because he demands "proof." I don't exactly see you "proving" it either, unless you think looking down your nose at everyone else for not running off to send the CBLDF money and then running back here to tell everyone about it is "proof" of your "support." |
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| FrederickIIofHohenstaufen Posts: 23 Location: Somewhere in California |
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| I completely agree, not every law deserves to be on the books. However, I do not feel this law is unreasonable; shiping this material through the public post office is asking for trouble (i have had dozens of packages go to the wrong address). And about making a diffrence; i am a student, the best i can do is riot, or take an umpayed internship in washington, unfortunately, i am a student of econ and logic, it does not make any sense for me to riot or take the internship because my influence is negligible at best. So i will continue to live my life as is (it has kept me out of jail thus far) | ||||||
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| CaitSubscriber Posts: 312 |
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The whole "shipment thing" is true. The only way the Federal Government can get its paws on obscenity cases is by making them interstate commerse cases, so they keep the law about "transporting obscene materials over state lines" on the books as a catch for themselves. It is a ridiculous law that takes power away from individual states and gives it to the government to enforce whenever a neo-conservative gets his own mitts on the reigns of power. I have no doubt in my mind that with a more relaxed and less fundamentalist Executive Branch (hopefully after this election in November) that the whole "focus on pornography and obscenity" ridiculousness will go dormant again, and hopefully for good this time. The reason that people continue to debate the issue of obscenity in this thread is that the DoJ is going to have to prove that the materials are obscene in order to convict this guy of receiving them across state lines. Welcome to the discussion. EDIT: Though I would argue that they also have to prove that the items actually did come into his possession from across state lines and not through a third party within the state (otherwise they are charging the wrong man). |
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| grgspunk Posts: 131 |
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Is the fear of embarrassement really a reason enough to censor? That's sad. Instead of controlling content, why don't they simply make a law preventing people from opening missent items?
You're a college student? You got an internet connection? You believe the whole thing is ridiculous? That's more than enough! I happen to be a college student too! You could do something such as encouraging others on other forums to help if you're strapped on cash! |
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| CaitSubscriber Posts: 312 |
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I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic, but it actually is illegal to open someone else's mail. It is a part of mail tampering laws (which is a federal offense). |
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| grgspunk Posts: 131 |
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I was just responding to what seemed like you were afraid of someone doing so if you ordered something explicit and they missent it to someone else over the mail. You did say shipping such material through the post office was "asking for trouble" and that your mail have been missent to others a number of times, didn't you? I mean, if you did order something objectionable, it was missent to someone else, they opened it out of curiosity, saw the contents and reported you, then the case is going to be thrown out the window because the people who came across your material violated federal mail tampering laws in order to report you. Nobody (Except the government in certain cases, sadly. That'll change soon enough.) can violate the law in order to be able to prosecute someone for another violation. |
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| CaitSubscriber Posts: 312 |
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You're confusing my posts with FrederickIIofHohenstaufen's, I think. I am not a college student and I am not strapped for cash. I am also in the process of trying to create this discussion in other places on the internet as well, but again, I feel like actually telling you this lends credibility to your assumption that I owe you proof of my "support" on the subject. You are right about mail tampering laws. They are on the books already and they would, indeed, prevent the law from using evidenceagainst you in court found in a package someone opened that was intended for you. This is not the issue at hand in this case, however. The defendant's mail was opened in a screening at the post office (they have the right to inspect suspect packages, especially those coming from overseas). Although, someone opening your mail and finding, for example, kiddie porn in it and telling the cops might be enough to convince a judge to issue a search warrant of your home. If they found any kiddie porn in your house as a result of the search, it would be trickier to get that evidence thrown out of court because it was evidence acquired by someone's tampering with your mail. |
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| kharaa Posts: 3 |
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as one of the admins of a very large lolicon/shotacon related community. this is shocking. It would be FAR more then just those characters. God i'd say 90 percent of characters popular in hentai, are under the age of 18. Though the stupidest thing here is, you cannot prove they're children. Lets look at a few examples. Sasami from Tenchi Muyo, looks oh anywhere from 8-10 years old. But she's around the 800 year mark, hell she's not even human! Shana from Shakugan no Shana, looks about 10-12 years old, poses as a 16 year old high school student, but in reality due to her being a flame haze, is actually closer to 30. lolwut? Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, another flatchested VERY young looking character, is in her late teens. Rukia, from Bleach, a VERY popular anime. looks very young, flat chested. She is extremely old. Naruto is an opposite example, Sakura, and hinata are very well endowed. but at the start of the series, are like 12 years old. And this list could go on for days, i'm sure every last one of you could give me an example. Obviously people don't understand the flatchest phenomenon. It's really scary that people seem to think Lolicon=pedophilia. It really doesn't, I know i'm a fan of lolicon; but i am sickened by the thought of any child being hurt. It's like saying because you enjoy anime, such as Blood+, Death Note, Black Lagoon. That you're okay with rape, murder, and violence in general. Another analogy is video games; you're playing Call of duty 4, you're on the op for team, and you're fighting the american marines. You kill another player, does that make you a murderer, or a terrorist? LOL. If you read Harry Potter, are you a wizard? You watch an anime, that's paticularly brutal and gruesome, does that make you some twisted demented freak? No, it doesn't. It's fiction, simple as that. And gladly the supreme court seems to understand that to a degree. Sorry if I'm ranting, but this is just ABSURD |
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fuuma_monou Posts: 449 Location: Quezon City, Philippines |
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Oh, there's at least one. The one I saw had a female android (gynoid?) Goku. |
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Unholy_Nny Posts: 463 |
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| Aw, to hell with it... I'm going to try to summarize this to the best of my knowledge.
A man is facing charges on five counts of interstate shipping of materials considered obscene. Note that it is not illegal to be in possession of obscene materials, but he received said materials through the US postal service. Which is illegal. Also, the original charges were for possession. However, the courts ruled that the two clauses of the law that made him guilty of possession were unconstitutional and a violation of the first amendment. Clearly showing that the US courts are, in fact, not trying to commit censorship through this case. Finally, he has not been sentenced as of yet. A jury has to deem the materials obscene through the Miller Test. Not to mention that he has to be found guilty of the transportation. If anyone who has better knowledge of it sees anything factually wrong (Not opinion - Fact), please inform me. And, am I paranoid, or does the ANN article seem like a summary of the press release issued by the CBLDF? |
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| fighterholic Posts: 9194 |
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| Well, it seems that we have a lot of people getting carried away, trying get either their points across, or just trying to prove that they're right when they don't have an idea what is going on in the judicial system. Sounds pretty monotonous to me. Heck, I won't even lie, it sounds like me at times. What good is it though to keep arguing the point out when the case has not at all been determined yet, other than the fact that there is a new defence team for this man who seems to be a victim of misunderstanding by the local authorities and mass paranoia of the media? I don't think it's really doing anybody any good to keep going over the same points at this point in time and history. | ||||||
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loyalbabus Posts: 16 |
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Where I come from, we call it the party van, but I'm also aware that the odds of getting busted for possession of 'weird shit' (on your computer) are even lower than getting busted for illegal filesharing. We should be doing what we can to fight this, as if nothing else, it may be an important case in overturning the government's 'net nanny' mentality. None of the things we're talking about are cp. That is, something with no ties to the real world is whatever someone wants it to be. The government busts people for cp all the time, but crap like this is rare, and a good part of that is that the national government honestly doesn't care. Despite claims otherwise, the FBI actually is investing its efforts into tracking down the actual criminals, and pays lipservice to the obscenity laws by making only a bust every once in a long while. Local governments are generally the ones who cause problems, not the FBI. Let's do what we can to show that we're mature enough not to send people to jail for disturbing us by supporting the CBLDF in this, but also not freak out over this supposed government 'crackdown'. Again, I seriously have a hard time understanding how people so sensitive to themes like these can bear to associate in any way with Japan. Some people equate cute with sexy, deal with it.
Excuse me? |
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| Chumchurum Posts: 9 |
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| Wow... To think that a postal inspector deemed it obscene, and then sent some guys to stalk him back to his house and bust his collection, thats just crazy.
Its only a comicbook yet it sounds like they're putting it on the same level as actual child porn. 20 years is downright crazy, no matter how messed up that manga is. Sucks to be that guy. I really hope he wins that case. If he doesn't, then that reeally sucks. |
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