Forum - View topicNEWS: UNICEF Japan Continues Push against Virtual Child Porn
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
lisamarie Posts: 24 Location: Beer Capital of the World, STL MO |
|
||
| Animes like Pico no Chico should be banned, they're disgusting and very disturbing, they give pedophiles fuel. On Oprah they gave an example of a brochure that illustrated how a baby can be violated but because it is illustrated it is legal and that should be illegal as well. In an illustration or anime any character depicted in sexual acts should "appear" to be of age. It disturbs me that there seems to be a lot of people in this forum that supports virtual child pornography. I am an artist myself and I do not believe in censorship but this does cross the line. | |||
|
|||
Panda Man Posts: 250 Location: North Carolina |
|
||
I doubt it will too, but I still think that one group can cause another to do the same and be annoying in other countries. |
|||
|
|||
Some Guy Posts: 134 |
|
||
| Gako-san your English is better than a lot of Americans I know from other forums^^^ It's probably better than mine... as you will see
This is an interesting subject. I am definitely of the school of thought that because it is virtual nobody is actually being hurt, except for perhaps the overall values of a society however those can vary wildly from place to place. I think the idea that banning virtual child porn (not gonna mince words) just because it is also banned in real life doesnt hold a lot of water. To reference an oft debated title, if we were to apply the same school of thought to GTA it should be banned to, and no, not because of the sex in it. The same thing could be applied to movies also, a movie like the Boondock Saints should banned as well, seeing as how it how can basically be boiled down to two guys taking the law into their own hands and murdering people that have committed crimes but gone unpunished. I guess I am having a little trouble understanding what UNICEF's actual argument for the ban is other than that "it's like that IRL". If that is all they really have then they really don't have much of a case. It's an interesting subject though, I wonder what would happen if I brought this up in my cultural studies class? But hey, this could be a watershed event. If a law banning virtual child porn gets passed it sets a LEGAL precedent for banning all sorts of other objectionable material, which as it is now it the entertainment industries bread and butter. And from my perspective, I don't see it as supporting child porn, more it is a defense of media against censorship. When does censorship cross the line... I guess when it starts to try to put its ugly mitts on something that is doing no immediate physical harm. The idea that someone watching virtual child porn will go out and do the same thing in real life is the same argument that is applied to GTA. I don't think a conclusive link has been shown between a virtual act and the physical act (if their is let me know), and thus the idea of censoring this is wrong. |
|||
|
|||
abynormal Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
|
||
| If you're going to ask "where does censorship cross the line?" you should also be prepared to answer "at what point does objectionable material cross the line?"
It still boggles my mind how many people are defending this like it's a direct assault on your hobby. What, are you watching it or something? We all know the restrictions on pornography, but there's still plenty of sex and nudity in popular movies. It's unlikely this bill will pass anyway. Why are you all getting so worked up over a niche within a niche within a niche market catered to an audience that needs therapy to begin with? |
|||
|
|||
| Drager00 Posts: 2 |
|
||
| The point of the ban is fairly obvious, and that is to lower real child porn and real child abuse.
Question One: Why use such a round about method that isn't even proven to work. Question Two: If this ban goes through and really does lower real child abuse in Japan, what is the likely hood it would raise real child abuse in other countries. Question Three: What the heck happened to the direct method. Question Four: If you ban one thing that "promotes" crime wouldn't that mean you need to ban everything that "promotes" crime. Question Five: And why do some people thinking protecting our kids from everything is going to help them. All it's going to do is make them not know the hardships or truths of the world and doom them to repeat them. |
|||
|
|||
zanarkand princess Posts: 1436 |
|
||
I agree with you. They say that this is wrong but look at how disturbing some of that stuff is. I get it negima is not violating any laws and neither is strike witches not even the infamous kodomo no jikan is. By no stretch of the imagination are those shows tasteful or anything but they are ecchi not hentai so no they aren't next and in negima's case negi is underage himself. Why is it ok to watch lolicon even if the child is a drawing? The person watching it isn't thinking "this is a drawing it's not real and this is wrong to do to a real child" because that wouldn't be enjoyable to those people would it? Don't tell me about famous books or anything like that either because those are carried under artistic merit which most lolicon does not have. |
|||
|
|||
| abynormal Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
|
||
1. Because Japanese government is as meticulous and bureaucratic as they come. They never act without doing TONS of "research" and just generally taking their sweet time. "Directly" is not how Japanese do business. 2. We're dealing with such a small niche market here, I don't see how the loss of it would affect child abuse rates elsewhere at all. I imagine most child abusers have never seen any anime since Speed Racer. 3. See #1 4. Sorry to say this, but animated kiddy porn is an easy target. Out of all the registered voters out there, how many would object to stamping out any sexual depictions of children? Not many. 5. In the context of this conversation, that sounds really creepy. |
|||
|
|||
| lisamarie Posts: 24 Location: Beer Capital of the World, STL MO |
|
||
| Has making real child porn illegal lead to making real porn between adults illegal? No.
Has making real child porn illegal lead to making sexual exploits and "sexualizing" of teenagers like in Gossip Girl illegal? No. Has making real child porn illegal lead to making violent movies illegal? No. Will making virtual child porn illegal lead to making other genres illegal? Doubt it. Will making virtual child porn illegal lead to making fan service illegal? Doubt it. The argument of that the censorship of one thing will lead to the censorship of another that is unrelated to the other is theoretical garbage. Last edited by lisamarie on Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
|||
|
|||
The Xenos Posts: 1102 Location: Boston |
|
||
| I disagree with them on lumping fictional manga as child pornography. There are no actual children involved in those books. They're lines on paper, cartoons. It's not real, fiction. To ban fiction is ludicrous.
Meanwhile, I think they have a valid point on the scarily popular underage model industry in Japan. How the hell do these parents sign away their kids like that? Here is on industry that uses actual children posing as models in questionably (if not obviously) sexual poses. As much as I'm against censorship, there's something really flat out wrong about an industry build around have actual children posing in such outfits and swimwear. I see how that can be a form of child abuse. At least with the manga and anime there are no children involved in making those. This uses real children in the industry in highly questionable ways. I think going after manga in the same swipe takes away from what is happening to actual children, both in this questionable model industry. Not to mention it distracts from actual child pornography and sexual abuse of children. Really, the use of children in these 'under - age' model, these junior idol, videos and photos is highly questionable. Real children are being used by an industry. Again, I don't know how parents allow this, but there has to be some consent from them. Yet even with that consent, I question if such an industry is exploiting the children directly involved. The closest thing I can think of in America are some of these teen beauty pageants, but those don't quite sell videos of the kids like these do. Maybe Hannah Montana and those to some degree, too, but none of those seem as sexual as these. When I visited Japan I didn't mind browsing the adult manga areas. Meanwhile, I walked by the entrance to an idol shop which prominently featured these under whatever age models. I took one look and just kept walking past. It seemed like nothing but trouble. I don't get how such a store can be legit. |
|||
|
|||
| Drager00 Posts: 2 |
|
||
| On my questions number 1 and 3 I was talking about UNICEF not the Japanese Government. And ya my question five is probably not phrased the best but some people take protecting children to far, and I'm saying that this ban could lead to bans of absolutely ridiculous things. | |||
|
|||
| zanarkand princess Posts: 1436 |
|
||
Well japan has kinda flexible laws about the age of consent and all. It depends on the situation and separate prefectures have their own laws. If no abusive and lewd act is being committed then a 13 year old model is fine and even I could bring my sailor fuku age self to be a gravure model. It's really creepy and everything and I agree that it also needs to be looked at but it's legal  so I guess that's why parents consent. Some of those models also move on to be seiyuu and actresses and idols but then again... It seems like a step away from the "AV" industry. But still I disagree with xenos that lolicon should simply be left alone the way it is. |
|||
|
|||
| abynormal Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
|
||
As lisamarie pointed out, that's simply not the case. Banning real child porn has not led to the outlawing of regular porn or violent movies, so why should it be any different in anime and manga? |
|||
|
|||
| The Xenos Posts: 1102 Location: Boston |
|
||
| Because anime and manga is FICTION. ie NOT REAL. It's not real child porn, so why bother going after it. It impede on the manga industry and what it can and cannot draw. You're arguing about fictional characters here, not real people and children. Instead of wasting time trying to ban fiction, why not spend the time on catching real people who prey and abuse real children.
Meanwhile some interesting links about that Junior Idol industry. http://en.wikipedia.org/
One link from that Wikipedia page. http://search.japantimes.co.jp/ Looking into this more, I found a bit more on that. Unfortunately the main article is in Japanese, but it does show the inside of a junior idol shop. (Mind you, neither link is safe for work at all.) http://www.icaruscomics.com/ http://www.akibablog.net/ Odd. I'm not sure if that's the same one I quickly walked past in Akihabara, but it sure looks similar. Really disturbing to see young girls basically whored out like that in this weird form of idol worship. Last edited by The Xenos on Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:51 am; edited 2 times in total |
|||
|
|||
| Some Guy Posts: 134 |
|
||
Why are we getting so worked up over? Well, I can only speak for myself, so I will start with saying that I am not "getting worked up" (although that's open to interpretation), I am simply trying to create a bit of scholarly debate. That said, I really don't give a toss if the bill passes or not, hell, I mentioned that this could set a legal precedent, but even then I doubt that said precedent would spread to the USA. That said you can bet that if they try to use said precedent to start banning "objectionable" content in video games or TV you can bet I will fight it tooth and nail (not just whine on some random forum). The idea of where does censorship begins or ends can be sort of be compared to the way plague and leprosy have been handled. You have a binary separation of what is good and what is bad (lepers and none lepers) or you have a separation of everyone down to the finest detail based on there individual attributes (read pages 209-213 of Michel Focault's Discipline and Punish). The point of all of this mumbo jumbo is that is basically impossible to discern between what is objectionable and what is not due simply to the fact that there are so many different aspect to the medium. And even then, in the context of child porn in animation the point becomes moot with just a bit of creative narrative, the narrative making it impossible to establish "a physical age". The idea of a physical age in a virtual medium is ridiculous, the physical age is only as great as the medium which it was created on. If the movie was created 5 years ago then the characters are only 5 years old. Does that make it child porn? If you present the argument that "oh, but they look like children, therefore it should be banned", you should first examine the reasons behind why child porn was banned in reality. The whole reason was child abuse, which, due to the fact that we are dealing with a virtual medium, there is none of. Again, I am going to stress that the creation of the medium itself causes NO harm. Any subsequent usage, and the results of subsequent usage are not within the scope of this debate. Which brings things back to the original question. Can you ban something that causes no harm in a virtual world if the same thing causes harm in the real world? |
|||
|
|||
artemiy Posts: 27 Location: LI, NY |
|
||
| Well if they think it will help them they can try it. It's not the end of the world. Even If it's banned, if you really need it you still can find it...
Whatever criminal it is, story starts with mindset and interpretation of medium given (loli ecchi, hentai) to individual, not the medium itself. Imho, variable in here is the person, not medium - so baning it is kinda pointless. |
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Anime Castle
Robert's Anime Corner Store
AAA Anime Distribution
Big Bad Toy Store
