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ANNCast Holiday Special The Third: Part One


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jsieczkar



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:38 pm Reply with quote
2011 basically sucked so a top five list is weak.
5) Steins;Gate -- this is how sad this year has been
4) Ano Hana
3) Children Who Chase Lost Voices From Deep Below
2) Chihayafuru
1) Toaru Hikuushi e no Tsuioku

as for movies:
5) Take Shelter
4) The Descendants
3) A Dangerous Method
2) Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy
1) Source Code


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Zac
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Posts: 7912
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:


I mentioned that because Zac was talking about how smartly written it was in the ANNCast.

In truth, I did enjoy the movie somewhat, and I agree with Zac that the first time Caesar talked was a really awesome scene. I wouldn't say it was a bad movie really, but I certainly wouldn't say it was a great movie, and I think the movie had a lot of flaws, and so I was surprised to see Zac (who I tend to think of as fairly critical about most things) liked the movie that much and praised it as being very smartly written.


Smart from a character perspective, sure, and a storytelling perspective. The script is pretty strong for a movie where apes take over San Francisco. You really care about Caesar (or at least I did and given the number of kudos this movie got, lots of other people did too!) and his character arc is one of the most compelling I've seen all year.

Of course there's a bunch of silly science in it and some plot holes, but the thrill of that movie is emotional, not "oh hmm yes this gas could plausibly make apes superintelligent, i approve".
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:02 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Mad_Scientist wrote:


I mentioned that because Zac was talking about how smartly written it was in the ANNCast.

In truth, I did enjoy the movie somewhat, and I agree with Zac that the first time Caesar talked was a really awesome scene. I wouldn't say it was a bad movie really, but I certainly wouldn't say it was a great movie, and I think the movie had a lot of flaws, and so I was surprised to see Zac (who I tend to think of as fairly critical about most things) liked the movie that much and praised it as being very smartly written.


Smart from a character perspective, sure, and a storytelling perspective. The script is pretty strong for a movie where apes take over San Francisco. You really care about Caesar (or at least I did and given the number of kudos this movie got, lots of other people did too!) and his character arc is one of the most compelling I've seen all year.

Of course there's a bunch of silly science in it and some plot holes, but the thrill of that movie is emotional, not "oh hmm yes this gas could plausibly make apes superintelligent, i approve".


Hmm. It's been a while since I've seen it, but there were a couple of moments that really made me scratch my head.

One was when they werespoiler[ testing out the new, more aggressive, airborne, so far untested virus, and there's the issue where the assistant loses his mask for some reason I can't remember. Not a single person in the movie thought to himself, "Hmm, maybe we should make sure he didn't accidentally breathe in some of the virus while his mask was off and get infected." I was already wondering why the heck they were making the virus airborne in the first place (wasn't the issue that his father had developed antibodies which destroyed the virus inside his blood stream? How was changing how the virus got into his blood stream supposed to help that?) so this further incident made me want to yell at the characters.]

The other was less a plot hole and more what seemed like inconsistent characterization. spoiler[Will was at first presented as someone who honestly cared about helping people, as opposed to his money-grubbing boss. Yet when Will secretly tests the virus on his father and it works, he doesn't bother to tell anyone that he's seemingly discovered a cure for for Alzheimer's and possibly every other brain condition known to man. What about all those millions of lives he was hoping to save? Of course, as soon as his father's condition worsens, he immediately lets his boss know, and his boss doesn't even care about the secret test or bother to punish him, so... what exactly was Will waiting for?

I mean, was he supposed to come off as an unlikable hypocrite? If so, that's not the impression I got from the way the rest of the movie portrayed him.]


There were other issues that bothered me, but those two stood out the most. I really did like most of the parts with Caesar, though, it's just the science and the human characters I didn't care for. Unfortunately, those were part of the framework that was required for Caesar's story and they held the movie back some.
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_V_



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 619
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:06 pm Reply with quote
sainta wrote:


Wow! I had no idea about that. Do you know what was the staff planning to do with Kaworu? spoiler[Until now he has made 5 second appearances, as if they are planning to feature him in the third movie more.]



....rhymes with "clockwise cut flex".
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_V_



Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 619
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:11 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
Rise of the Planet of the Apes is Zac's number 2? That surprises me quite a bit. The movie was so full of massive plot holes and absurd elements that I had a hard time really enjoying it,


"In your view...or mine?!" -- Caesar, Conquest of the Planet of the Apes

@Mad_scientist - well, he didn't tell anyone about the "cure" because he honestly wasn't sure if it "worked"....in the sense of if he didn't know if the effects were only temporary....which it turns out, they *were* with that early version. So what was he going to do, get on national TV and say "hi, a random *isolated* trial I did of a potential cure seems to have been working for a few weeks, though I have no way of knowing how long it might work or if it causes long term health damage".

I wouldn't call it an outright "hole" because presumably, being a scientist who is working in the field of testing potential cures in human trials, he's had various "potential" cures before that INITIALLY seemed promising, but turned out to just be blind alleys that went nowhere. I mean it seemed hopeful, but that doesn't mean he systematically proved it "worked" or was safe for full-scale human trials. I mean, even drugs that "work" have to go through years of FDA testing to make sure that different subsets of the population don't have violent reactions to them and stuff.
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Mad_Scientist
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:40 pm Reply with quote
@ _V_ spoiler[I'm not saying he should have went on national tv or anything, but couldn't he have at least told his boss about it, so that they could do further study and testing? It just seemed like once his father was cured he stopped even caring about getting the cure released to the rest of the world.

Also, didn't YEARS pass in the movie before the cure failed? I could be wrong, but I thought that was the case.]


On the subject of anime, I don't think this was really a bad year. Yes, there were some big disappointments (noitaminA, I am looking at you), but there were also some unexpected hits.

Like Madoka Magica. Yes, I'm sure all the forum members who haven't seen that show are sick about hearing about it, but it is a really awesome show, and it is also something that caught a lot of people off guard. Even knowing that there were some pretty notable people behind the series, I doubt many would have predicted what it would be so awesome.

Or Steins;Gate. Given it's relation to Chaos;Head, of which I have heard almost nothing but bad things about (at least for the anime version), Steins;Gate turned out to be an extremely pleasant surprise. It was a totally awesome show, despite a handful of details that could have been explained a bit more.

Hmm, come to think of it, while I criticize Rise of the Planet of the Apes for having some shaky science and plot holes, someone could accuse Steins;Gate of having the same. While I don't think the plot holes at least were as severe (shaky science though... spoiler[they turn a microwave into a time machine, that's even sillier than apes taking over a city]), the fact remains that there were elements of the show that normally would be things that would have bothered me... but they barely did at all because the rest of the show was so good. So maybe I can kind of see where Zac is coming from.

Another surprise was Tiger and Bunny, not because I didn't expect it to be good, but because I didn't expect it to be made in the first place. But it was made, and all of it that I have seen so far was really good.

Also Fate Zero. I wasn't certain about this, given most Type Moon adaptions I've heard of are apparently not that great, but Fate Zero is really enjoyable. I can see some of the complaints about the first episode, but I think there were somewhat overblown.

And those are just the series that, in some way or the other, I did not expect to like so much or expect to exist at all. There are plenty of other seasons that were less surprising, but still quite good. We got solid second series of series like Squid Girl and The World God only Knows. The over the top insanity of Future Diary. The... whatever the heck it is of Hanasaku Iroha, which seemed to have a few issues figuring out just what type of show it wanted to be but managed to be really great at times despite that.

Ano Hana, Level E... I could go on, and so far I'm just including series I've at least seen part of, not series like Chihayafuru which I have yet to see but have heard great things about. I don't think 2011 was some spectacular y6ear of greatness unheard of in anime or anything, but it's not like the year was a graveyard either.


Last edited by Mad_Scientist on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3819
Location: Louisville, KY
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:45 pm Reply with quote
SoandSo wrote:
And all the Madoka/Steins;Gate/FateZero fans lose their minds over your horrible taste and lack of justice and true love of anime.

If I had to make a brief lsit, I guess it'd come out like this;

5. Shiki (I forget if this came out this year or last. Eh.)

4. Chihayafuru (Not finished, but still extremely charming.)

3. Redline

2. Star Driver

1. Mawaru Penguindrum (which is reaching its finale today, in fact.)

And if I had to name a worst, it'd be Mirai Nikki, easily. This show is like a poster child of trying-too-thard, faux-edgy, contrived stupidity. Blech.


trying to hard 1/10

Probably the worst anime i have seen this year is
1.Twin Angel
2.Lotte's Toy
3.C 3
4.Mashiroiro Symphony
5.Dead Man Wonderland Tv "if your going to do an adapt from a 12+ volume manga at least do 24 ep series."
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bemused Bohemian



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 404
Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:21 am Reply with quote
Rango: a damn fine non-anime movie....

If you have any background at all watching B-grade or better westerns filmed in b&w as well as technicolor since the '60's as well as the ultra-violent spaghetti westerns (filmed in Spain and/or Italy using some assemblage of recognizable American actors/actresses at the time with foreign leads or directors) by God this is THE non-anime animated film to watch. I would even call it shelf-worthy.

Rango is serious homage to past Hollywood and overseas western genre producers. Too bad Henry Fonda wasn't around to voice the snake with the hat (see the Sergio Leone 1968 production "Once Upon a Time in the West" starring this actor for reference. Do watch it several times). I'm 99.44% positive this is where the idea for that creature originated.

Kudos on this call. Btw I like the addition of the art-house movies in your best of-worst of cinematic selections though I don't always agree with the bases for the commentaries.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:07 am Reply with quote
RE: Top anime list. What? No Beelzebub? Crying or Very sad

Justin: RE: Redline at the Cinefamily. You were sober enough to pay attention to the time after all the drinks they served before the show? Wink

ANNZAC:
Quote:
Melancholia


But how did it compare to Majora's Mask? Rolling Eyes

Quote:
I love Planet of the Apes, anyway


Even the Tim Burton one? Laughing

As for movies, The Artist and Mission Impossible 4 should be on there. I been wanting to see Rango, though. And I will agree with Attack the Block on there. Though some jerk keeps deleting my Wiki entry about it mentioning Naruto.
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 550
Location: Northwest from Here
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:09 am Reply with quote
Got to go, so I'll make this one quick:

Best anime 2011

1) Madoka
2) Steins;Gate
3) PenguinDrum
4) Redline (It counts as 2011 because that was it's home media release year)
5) Should be Usagi Drop, but I haven't got around to watching yet, so No.6

Worst: Dragon Crisis (Did that come out this year?, I forget. Anyway, it sucked balls.)
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1293
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:42 am Reply with quote
My Top 5 shows(with the top three being in no particular order since I liked all of them equally)...

5) Mirai Nikki- Well I read the entire manga beforehand so this is pretty much on my list because it's one of the best adaption I've seen this year. I had my worries given what I've heard about Asread as a studio but they've done a solid job of sticking to the source material and expanding on it, the latter of which I was surprised given the episode count is a bit low for the amount of source material that had to be blown through. Some parts were much better executed in the manga but the anime has done a good job of keeping me anticipating the next episode Hopefully that will continue along with spoiler[expanding on/fixing the ending a bit]

4) Stein's Gate- I'm not gonna lie, the first half of this show bored the crap out of me. It wasn't bad by any means but so little happened in those first 12 or so episodes that I would often check the timer to see how much more of an episode I had to watch. That being said the second half more than made up for it. All the twists and turns were really amazing and it made sure that a lot of the stuff I didn;t find interesting in the first half, came back as being pretty cool. Not to mention the ending was pretty good. I'll probably buy this next year.

3) Tiger and Bunny- I wasn't really sure if I was gonna watch this show at first, but when Viz announced the simulcast I got a bit curious. Turned out to be a pretty fun show. The plot wasn;t very deep or complex and there were times where it felt like it should have been, but the characters and the writing more than made up for it. I liked pretty much all of the central characters even Fire Emblem who I was sure I'd hate for initially coming across as a bad stereotype. I'm glad the show's suceeding and I'm looking forward to seeing it become a franchise. Hopefully Viz will get a dub and tv deal out for it before the end of next year. This is the kind of show I;d picture having a really AAA quality dub.

2) Puella Magi Madoka Magica- This show wasn;t really on my radar until I saw the preview guide reviews for it and I was intially skeptical because I despise the magical girl genre with a passion. The first two episodes were a bit so-so for me, but once the end of episode 3 came around I was hooked. I was constantly looking forward to what would happen next and it was the first time I seriously followed discussions for a show. The story was pretty amazing and I warmed up to most of the characters. Of course the thing that really blew my mind was the ending but that speaks for itself. Can't wait for the sets to come out next year.

1) Mawaru Penguindrum- I've never seen Utena so I wasn't quite sure what to expect from this show but it turned out to be pretty amazing. At first I simply enjoyed how over the top it was but as the story got more and more complex I got pretty hooked. The animation wasn;t the best but the visual symbolism was really breathtaking at times and a lot of the characters that started out sort of annoying at first turned out to have a lot of depth to them and it was interesting to see how all their stories connected together into something of a common theme regarding parents and family. Also much like Madoka, the ending was pretty mindblowing. I pray this gets a US release. I really do want to buy this series.

Worst shows:

Rio Rainbow Gate- This show was just plain stupid. Normally that doesn;t bother me in anime but I just couldn;t find anything interesting about the show and it was just too ridiculous. Stopped watching after episode 2

Dragon Crisis- same reasons as Rainbow Gate

Guilty Crown- Well this is more personal than an actual issue of quality. It;s not the worst thing ever, but it was hyped up to be the next big thing and have an interesting storyline. It fell really short of that and it feels too blockbuster-ish to be in the Notimina timeslot. I suppose it's partially my fault for giving into the hype, but this show really disappointed me. That and I don't like when stupid shows try to hard to be taken seriously (i.e. Bleach). I may revisit it when I can get over my disappointment and judge it based on what it is but for now I;m done with it.

Honorable Mention

Hunter X Hunter (2011)- Never saw the first anime, even though I;m caught up with the manga so it;s my first time seeing the series animated. While it doesn't always have the best execution it's done a decent job of sticking to the source material and characterization(I heard Killua and Gon's characterization was changed in the old show quite a bit) as well as keeping in a good chunk of it's violence given it's timeslot.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:16 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
The ending includes the whole "the whole world unites to stop the virus" when the entire movie up until that point has basically denounced the west (in particular America) as a corrupting influence on Japan (the characters frequently talk about how great Feudal Japan was, America is entirely to blame for the problems the family has to contend with, and the son who lived in America grew up to be kind of a jerk). I can't consider that ending to be sincere.

Your mileage may vary, and maybe I'm not as in-tune with the "anti-West" rage of anime, but I took the "Anti-America" rage more like American movies about the GW Bush years. ie. The government is bad (specifically the DoD/intelligence community) but the citizens are all well-meaning people who would be ok to talk to. Altho, if you think the movie is specifically anti-American up to that point (I don't) then it may be greatly relevant that the first person to assist the grand finale (from outside the family) is German, and I got a much stronger "European" vibe off the "world support".
Zac wrote:
If it feels like we go in to the movies a little more, that might be because we've spent the entire year for a couple hours a week talking about the titles on our anime top 5s and we don't have much left to say about them. Whereas no more than 5-10 minutes a week are spent on movies, if that. Not that tough to figure out if you think about it for a second.

While I admit to not being a fan of your movie-nerdness (it also turns my wife off to your podcast if that "validates" my opinion at all), I'd point out that while you're right about the end of year special, that is not at ALL how your weekly show goes. (by which I mean scheduling) I point this out because while it's true that the movie geekouts can be skipped on the end of year show, the weekly show spends the FIRST 10 mins or so usually like this:
zac: Hey Justin, how's it going?
justin: its ok, been a busy week but you know how it is
zac: yeah, have you watched anything lately
justin: Basically just "Mad Men" and I wanna check out (insert critically acclaimed Hollywood movie)
zac: Yeah, yeah, I heard about that, I haven't had any time or interest in watching any anime this season so let's geek out about AMC shows and film nerd topics before we need to deal with that anime ****
(above conversation repeated when talking to guests (if not industry) about half the time depending on their interests)

I truly and honestly appreciate that you guys post a brief time-coded episode overview so I can skip all that. (I still haven't listened to episode 100, and I guess I probably won't, since the breakdown wasn't posted)
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:10 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
The ending includes the whole "the whole world unites to stop the virus" when the entire movie up until that point has basically denounced the west (in particular America) as a corrupting influence on Japan (the characters frequently talk about how great Feudal Japan was, America is entirely to blame for the problems the family has to contend with, and the son who lived in America grew up to be kind of a jerk). I can't consider that ending to be sincere.

Your mileage may vary, and maybe I'm not as in-tune with the "anti-West" rage of anime, but I took the "Anti-America" rage more like American movies about the GW Bush years. ie. The government is bad (specifically the DoD/intelligence community) but the citizens are all well-meaning people who would be ok to talk to. Altho, if you think the movie is specifically anti-American up to that point (I don't) then it may be greatly relevant that the first person to assist the grand finale (from outside the family) is German, and I got a much stronger "European" vibe off the "world
Zac wrote:
If it feels like we go in to the movies a little more, that might be because we've spent the entire year for a couple hours a week talking about the titles on our anime top 5s and we don't have much left to say about them. Whereas no more than 5-10 minutes a week are spent on movies, if that. Not that tough to figure out if you think about it for a second.

While I admit to not being a fan of your movie-nerdness (it also turns my wife off to your podcast if that "validates" my opinion at all), I'd point out that while you're right about the end of year special, that is not at ALL how your weekly show goes. (by which I mean scheduling) I point this out because while it's true that the movie geekouts can be skipped on the end of year show, the weekly show spends the FIRST 10 mins or so usually like this:
zac: Hey Justin, how's it going?
justin: its ok, been a busy week but you know how it is
zac: yeah, have you watched anything lately
justin: Basically just "Mad Men" and I wanna check out (insert critically acclaimed Hollywood movie)
zac: Yeah, yeah, I heard about that, I haven't had any time or interest in watching any anime this season so let's geek out about AMC shows and film nerd topics before we need to deal with that anime ****
(above conversation repeated when talking to guests (if not industry) about half the time depending on their interests)

I truly and honestly appreciate that you guys post a brief time-coded episode overview so I can skip all that. (I still haven't listened to episode 100, and I guess I probably won't, since the breakdown wasn't posted)


Wait - so I say "we spend about 5-10 minutes per show talking movies", and you say "that's not at ALL how your weekly show goes" and then proceed to describe how we talk about movies for 10 minutes at the top of the show?

Your little approximation of our dialogue there is so charmingly insulting. Thanks man, happy holidays.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Wait - so I say "we spend about 5-10 minutes per show talking movies", and you say "that's not at ALL how your weekly show goes" and then proceed to describe how we talk about movies for 10 minutes at the top of the show?

Sorry, meant that the weekly cast is not at all like the end of year special (in the sense that it's not as easily parsed out):
Quote:
that is not at ALL how your weekly show goes. (by which I mean scheduling)

not that it wasn't at all like your characterization, altho you sometimes go much longer than 10 mins or more on movie discussions (other than the end of year special).
Zac wrote:
Your little approximation of our dialogue there is so charmingly insulting. Thanks man, happy holidays.

Merry Christmas!

Sorry if that paraphrasing was insulting, lemme take a page from Jon Stewart and quote directly instead:
(episode 80, more recent episodes begin with longer rambles, or have guests that are kicked to immediately (which I enjoyed))

(0:35)zac: Hey Justin
justin: howdy
zac: How's it going man?
justin: Ugh, it's been a crazy week. I'm working on a new studio tour ... (discussion about editing tour video)
(1:51)zac: That's cool, so uh, you seen any movies lately?
justin: I.. not much, I've just seen "Tree of Life" (discussion of movies ensues began by zac not watching "Tree of Life" yet because of the type of projector used at the theater showing the movie, with a tangent about film critics bashing other film critics about their opinions on "Tree of Life")
animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2011-06-17

I'll admit, there's no discussion of AMC shows, but I don't know when "Mad Men" finished it's season.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:14 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Zac wrote:
Wait - so I say "we spend about 5-10 minutes per show talking movies", and you say "that's not at ALL how your weekly show goes" and then proceed to describe how we talk about movies for 10 minutes at the top of the show?

Sorry, meant that the weekly cast is not at all like the end of year special (in the sense that it's not as easily parsed out):
Quote:
that is not at ALL how your weekly show goes. (by which I mean scheduling)

not that it wasn't at all like your characterization, altho you sometimes go much longer than 10 mins or more on movie discussions (other than the end of year special).
Zac wrote:
Your little approximation of our dialogue there is so charmingly insulting. Thanks man, happy holidays.

Merry Christmas!

Sorry if that paraphrasing was insulting, lemme take a page from Jon Stewart and quote directly instead:
(episode 80, more recent episodes begin with longer rambles, or have guests that are kicked to immediately (which I enjoyed))

(0:35)zac: Hey Justin
justin: howdy
zac: How's it going man?
justin: Ugh, it's been a crazy week. I'm working on a new studio tour ... (discussion about editing tour video)
(1:51)zac: That's cool, so uh, you seen any movies lately?
justin: I.. not much, I've just seen "Tree of Life" (discussion of movies ensues began by zac not watching "Tree of Life" yet because of the type of projector used at the theater showing the movie, with a tangent about film critics bashing other film critics about their opinions on "Tree of Life")
animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2011-06-17

I'll admit, there's no discussion of AMC shows, but I don't know when "Mad Men" finished it's season.


Okeydoke, so you don't like that stuff. Sorry. We're still gonna talk about movies for a little bit in our show that is overwhelmingly about anime. I don't really have any other response to this - I can't help that you don't like it and would prefer we only ever talk about anime period, but that's not what the show has *ever* been.
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