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houkoholic
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 82
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:14 am |
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| CCSYueh wrote: | Hells bells, I always heard SRW COULDN'T be licensed due to the copyright issues.
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It's still true - because when people say that they are actually refering to the main games where it features many cross-overs of mecha shows from many different animation companies (Sunrise, Toei, Gainax, etc).
The OG (Original Generation) branch of SRW, of which the anime was based upon, only involves completely original mecha created by Banpresto (which used to be a subsidery of Bandai but is now fully absorbed into the Namco Bandai group in the recent restructure) specifically for the games to start off with, so all the character licenses belongs to Banpresto/Bandai, therefore there is no issue of licensing there, which is also the reason why they were able to bring over the OG GBA games over to the states. |
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CCSYueh
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1913
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:42 am |
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| GATSU wrote: | CCS: | Quote: | | No idea about Ronnie, but I voted for Arnold because he was a Republican with heavy Democrat leanings. |
But he hasn't done anything which leans Democratic, except acknowledge global warming. But political views still =/= experience.
And since there were hundreds of candidates running that year, why did you really choose to pick him? |
I told you
He seemed like the better candidate
Don't forget we'd removed Gray Davis so the prevailing climate was someone different from what Davis had been.
| GATSU wrote: |
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Sadly, everyone wants to work at government jobs for the perceived stability (Though we do our share of lay-offs). |
You can't easily get fired from this job, though, if you make it past the first six months. |
Year probation in my job, sorry.
And it's really no different from any union job where one has a rep in one's court. In fact, we have a really horrid union, good for nothing much, but most of the people I know in the union signed up for just that reason-someone to argue for them should they be fired
So I guess it happens enough people who do work here are willing to pay for protection from it.
| GATSU wrote: |
| Quote: | | There's also favoritism & nepotism to deal with in some areas. Basically you have to keep interviewing & interviewing unless you know someone. |
Thus invalidating your argument about experience. |
How?
My teen works at a grocery store & was hired by a gal who had gone to her high school & believed in giving kids from that school a chance. My daughter has been used as a ref for several other girls who have been hired
In many job, it's who you know & if that's no one, it's dogged persistance. I've heard of many peopel hired after having to interview with a company several times which indicated to the interviewer the person really wants to work there.
| GATSU wrote: |
| Quote: | | No. I've said I work enforcing court orders. |
So you're Seth Rogen in Pineapple Express?  |
Didn't see the movie. Don't know what he was.
| GATSU wrote: |
When CPM was still in the game, they were releasing even more old-school titles, including Tezuka. The only ones which really died out were the ones which had bad marketing. But there are a quite a few making a comeback. [I.E. Mamotte Shugogetten, Slam Dunk, etc.] |
?????
Are you confusing Raijin with CPM? Those were titles in the old Raijin mags I have.
Maybe you should check the Central Park Media list before you defend all their hot titles.
When everyone else was licensing stuff made since 2000, CPM had a catalog full of titles made in the '80's & '90's plus a handful of newer titles which were mostly fairly obscure OVA's. I never heard anyone demanding more Munto or Arcade Gamer Fubuki. World of Narue was ok, but nothing to write home about (Yeah, I own a set. The commentary with the Japanese actors was more interesting).
| GATSU wrote: |
| Quote: | | ADV had great titles & Bandai also. Geneon always had loyal fans but were always perceived as expensive. MB & CPM always seemed to go for older titles (I always assumed because a title that had been passed over was probably cheaper). This was at least 3 yrs before Yawaru was announced. |
Well, since then, ADV put out Macross, Bandai put out the remake of To Terra, and MB put out Voltron. |
I said MB licensed old titles.
Everyone has always done their share of older titles. ADV put out the Earth Defense title & 5 Star Stories & some Go Nagai. Hells bells, ADV gave us Wedding Peach which I love so much more than Sailor Moon because the gals aren't annoying, although no one seems to know the title.
HOWEVER, these other companies were mostly known for hot new titles. CPM mostly had old catalog.
| GATSU wrote: |
Viz just put out an FY manga sequel, and is re-releasing the original next year! And that live-action SM show probably got the most fansubs and BT'ing of any recent non-shonen show. |
I said core audience.
How many ANIME fans discuss the anime for Sailor Moon or Fushigi Yugi or Utena on any given board vs the scads of posts about Bleach, Naruto, InuYasha, etc. etc. etc.
There will always be fans of CCS, Sailor Moon, etc. One board I go to has a yuri fan who's just discovered Utena off On Demand. But most of us who love those shows have our dvds & a lot of the newer fans aren't interested in older titles even though they are completely worthy. I have seen the statement "Recommend anime, but nothing older than 2000" on more than one thread at places online.
| GATSU wrote: |
Haruka would have happened eventually, given that Viz is publishing the manga. And if the Disgaea anime got licensed, there's always a possibility for SRW. |
I've always been suspicious there was a certain amount of collusion on that Haruka deal. It seemed BV announced the anime or Viz added it to Shojo Beat on top of the other one's announcement, but I forget who announced it first. I thought it was BV first, then wow, Viz jumped on the manga, but I might be backward on that. They were very close. It was 6/07 Viz announced Haruka would enter the zine
Haruka ran 10/04-3/05. BV's first release here was 4/08 making it about a 4 yr old title no one else had bothered to license. There was an earlier OVA (2002) that hasn't made it over yet.
Disgaea was released 4/06 in Japan & 12/06 here.
That would make it one of those "hot" titles released almost immediately whether it sold well or not here.
SRW OVA was released 5/05 & BV released it here 10/07. Bit more of a lag than Disgaea's.
| GATSU wrote: |
Last time I checked, ADV put out a press release, and then Geneon bailed out on them. |
My memory of checking this site daily & these boards & suddenly people on the boards were saying the Geneon deal WASN'T going to go thru because ADV was getting cold feet (general concensus seemed to be Geneon wanted all their catalog included & ADV balked) when all the press releases were saying they were & sure enough when the day the deal was to be signed came, the announcement was Bye Bye Geneon. Next you know ADV announced lay-offs, shut down their fan club promo stuff, killed the anime network & Newtype. One of the former Newtype employees commented ADV was in the hands of creditors suggesting a pretty dire situation. They had that yard sale of office furniture. Did we even hear that about Geneon when it went away?
| GATSU wrote: |
Considering what Geneon charges for its shows, it was probably the reverse of the situation you described. |
Believe what you will.
| GATSU wrote: |
MB and FUNi have a lot of license-rescues, and no one thinks badly of them for it. |
Because ADV was never much in the way of rescues. They DUMPED titles like Master of Mosquiton & Tactics. It's sort of like when a car lot that's only sold new cars suddenly starts buying & selling used cars. One notices the change unlike companies that have been doing both (like MB getting Master of Mosquiton when ADV dumped it) |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8418
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:49 pm |
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CCS: | Quote: | | Don't forget we'd removed Gray Davis so the prevailing climate was someone different from what Davis had been. |
Yes, it was a climate of idiots who read tabloids and who don't know a thing about the political process.. 
| Quote: | | My teen works at a grocery store & was hired by a gal who had gone to her high school & believed in giving kids from that school a chance. |
And if they didn't go to that school, then what?
| Quote: | | My daughter has been used as a ref for several other girls who have been hired |
And if those girls didn't have your daughter as a reference, then what?
| Quote: |
Are you confusing Raijin with CPM? Those were titles in the old Raijin mags I have. |
No, just making a point that if those Raijin titles are considered re-marketable, in spite of their age, then there was nothing wrong with the CPM stuff.
| Quote: | | I never heard anyone demanding more Munto or Arcade Gamer Fubuki. |
Perhaps, but they were fine with Patlabor and Votoms.
| Quote: |
I've always been suspicious there was a certain amount of collusion on that Haruka deal. |
You might have a point, but Viz did always say they'd be rotating titles in the mag.
| Quote: |
That would make it one of those "hot" titles released almost immediately whether it sold well or not here.
SRW OVA was released 5/05 & BV released it here 10/07. Bit more of a lag than Disgaea's. |
Disgaea's as niche as SRW, though.
| Quote: | | My memory of checking this site daily & these boards & suddenly people on the boards were saying the Geneon deal WASN'T going to go thru because ADV was getting cold feet (general concensus seemed to be Geneon wanted all their catalog included & ADV balked) |
That just proves that Geneon was forcing ADV to pay more for its library than was worth it.
| Quote: | | Because ADV was never much in the way of rescues. |
Well, neither was MB until recently. |
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rg4619
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 160
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:33 pm |
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| Quote: | | My memory of checking this site daily & these boards & suddenly people on the boards were saying the Geneon deal WASN'T going to go thru because ADV was getting cold feet (general concensus seemed to be Geneon wanted all their catalog included & ADV balked) when all the press releases were saying they were & sure enough when the day the deal was to be signed came, the announcement was Bye Bye Geneon. |
From what I read, the problem wasn't Geneon's catalogue, but rather the fact that the company had been channel stuffing. Retailers had an overload of unwanted inventory that would eventually be returned, and under the proposed contract, Geneon was to pass that liability onto ADV (for whatever reason, ADV didn't become aware of the condition until the last minute).
FWIW, ADV had also been channel stuffing (seems like an industry-wide epidemic, but ADV and Geneon were reportedly the worst when it came to pressuring retail chains to accept more stock than the market needed) - notice the frequent clearance sales for both companies - so it's not like their business practices were any rosier. Nevertheless, I can't blame them for pulling out of the deal. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8418
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:48 pm |
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| rg: The problem with Geneon, compared to ADV, was that no one actually wanted the majority of Geneon's shows-just a few key titles. Bamboo's indictment of Karin in her new Shelf Life column just supports that argument. |
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MokonaModoki
 Subscriber
Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:53 pm |
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| GATSU wrote: | | rg: The problem with Geneon, compared to ADV, was that no one actually wanted the majority of Geneon's shows-just a few key titles. Bamboo's indictment of Karin in her new Shelf Life column just supports that argument. |
I'm pretty sure that ADV and Geneon had very nearly equal market share (ADV was only slightly higher) in the first half of 2007, but since 2005 ADV had fallen a LOT further to get down to where Geneon was. That ADV market share was lost to Viz, though, and represents very little to pounce in in a ADV vs. Geneon pissing contest.
The fact that Geneon still had a 4.4% market share in the first half of 2008 does seem to support the shelf-stuffing argument though. That's a lot of product to sell for a company with no distribution.
And the "point" about Karin supporting your argument is a pretty moot one when the fact that the glowing review of Black Lagoon as the only shelf-worthy title from the same column spanks the exact same argument. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8418
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:33 pm |
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Mokona: | Quote: | | I'm pretty sure that ADV and Geneon had very nearly equal market share (ADV was only slightly higher) in the first half of 2007, but since 2005 ADV had fallen a LOT further to get down to where Geneon was. |
Since 2005? Up until Sojitz bailed on them, they had one of the best-selling anime shows of the year!
That ADV market share was lost to Viz, though, and represents very little to pounce in in a ADV vs. Geneon pissing contest.
| Quote: |
And the "point" about Karin supporting your argument is a pretty moot one when the fact that the glowing review of Black Lagoon as the only shelf-worthy title from the same column spanks the exact same argument. |
If most of their shows were like Black Lagoon, and not like Karin, then you'd be right. |
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CCSYueh
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1913
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:58 am |
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| Quote: | | And if they didn't go to that school, then what? |
Well. the Grocery store is kitty corner to the High School so it's more likely kids from that school would go there for work & kids from the nearest High School to that would sork at the Vons a couple blocks from theirs. It's just this manager regularly hired 16 yr olds from the school which is a major labor hassle out of loyalty to the school.
It's not all that different from all the jobs I applied for when I first came to town 20 yrs ago that told me they only hired military & college kids. I was a newlywed, so I didn't match their preferance.
| Quote: | | And if those girls didn't have your daughter as a reference, then what? |
Is it so unusual for bosses to hire based of refs? Lots of 16 yr olds don't really have a ref so if a boss is looking to hire this kid over here with no refs verses that one over there who is a friend of a good worker, it's not unusual for the person with re to get hired.
| Quote: | | No, just making a point that if those Raijin titles are considered re-marketable, in spite of their age, then there was nothing wrong with the CPM stuff. |
| Quote: | | rg: The problem with Geneon, compared to ADV, was that no one actually wanted the majority of Geneon's shows-just a few key titles. Bamboo's indictment of Karin in her new Shelf Life column just supports that argument. |
CPM's stuff is worth rescuing, but not Geneon?
Really?
Geneon gave us Hellsing. Tenchi was pretty damed popular there in its day. Sailor Moon. (Funi actually expressed interest in SM, but the license had lapsed) CardCaptor Sakura. Fushigi Yugi. Trigun. Bastard is just too much fun & every anime fan should see it. The Ah! My Goddess movie & the Mini Goddesses stuff. Armitage had it's fans in its day, as has Captain Harlock. No one likes Chobits here, do they? Dual was on tv & was quite popular at one time as was El Hazard. The mech fans I've spoken with seem fond of Fafnir & Galexy Angel (aimless as it is) seems to have a following of some sort. I hear far more praise of Gankutsuou than of ADV's Moby Dick release. Gatekeepers had a following in its day also & Mahoromatic was apparently worthy of rescuing by your precious ADV even if it is completely fan service. Gungrave, Last Exile, Lunar Legend Tsukihime, R.O.D., Samurai Champloo, Sol Bianca, Soul Taker, Vandred, X TV--these are all crap, unworthy titles Geneon released?
Because we all know Zone of Enders, Yumeria, Yugo, Wild Arms, Super Milk-chan, Sukeban Deka, Spriggan, Sin, Maps, Spectral Force, Shadow Skill tv, Samurai Showdown, The Samurai, Samurai Gun, Ruin Explorers, Ninja Resurrection, Plastic Little, Power Dolls, Princess 9, Neo Ranga, Najica, Moeyo Ken, Magical Play, The Crystania movie, Legend of the Mystical Ninja, Final Fantasy Unlimited, Ghost Stories, Happy Lesson, Hello Kitty, Dragon Knight: Wheel of Time, Debutant Detective Corp, Cyberteam in Akihabara, Cosplay Complex, Moby Dick, Chance Pop Sessions, Borgmen, Birth, & Bastof Syndrome are all WORTHY DEEP titles every anime fan should have in their collection on the strength of a company as wise & wonderful as ADV deemed them worthy of being released in the United States
In fact, there is probably far more mindless jiggle in ADV's catalog than in Geneon's & both favored jiggle/harem titles. I was so thoroughly disappointed in Yumeria. I like the old school jiggle/harem stuff because it tends to be funny, but there was no fun to Yumeria. Happy Lesson was also a total snooze.
| Quote: | | Since 2005? Up until Sojitz bailed on them, they had one of the best-selling anime shows of the year! |
Tenchi wasn't huge in the day?
Cardacaptor Sakura?
Sailor Moon?
Fushigi Yugi?
Trigun?
So Geneon doesn't have it's share of hot titles?
| Quote: | | That ADV market share was lost to Viz, though, and represents very little to pounce in in a ADV vs. Geneon pissing contest. |
Like ADV being completely pissed that Geneon stole Saiyuki from them (Just watch the movie commentary where they ream on Geneon for doing it). Or that Geneon & ADV both licensed Burn Up titles. Both released Getter Robo titles. Both released Sakura Wars titles. ADV rescued Geneon's Mahoromatic.
| Quote: | | The fact that Geneon still had a 4.4% market share in the first half of 2008 does seem to support the shelf-stuffing argument though. That's a lot of product to sell for a company with no distribution. |
The comic shop I frequented until they closed said Tokyo Pop also did stuff like that-sent her more than she ordered of some titles & didn't take returns.
| Quote: | | Bamboo's indictment of Karin in her new Shelf Life column just supports that argument. |
I know a hell of a lot of people who are following this title.
Bamboo's opinions are her own. Her opinions hold no more value than the next person's opinions. I agree with some & disagree with others. I really hope there is no one so sad out there as to totally base their entertainment choices on the opinoion of 1 critic. My teen & I have similar tastes & tend to love A LOT of the same movies, but we do have our differences such as she loved Dark Knight & I didn't. LOTS of people loved Dark Knight. I didn't. I was slightly disappointed over all the glowing comments people made which probably raised my expectations to a level the movie didn't meet.
I know a lot more people who love Karin than hate it. I have no interest in it after reading one volume of the manga, but I seem to recall it's not all that unusual for the various dvds in a series to get different ratings (Buy dvd 3, but rent dvd 4? OK)
| Quote: | From what I read, the problem wasn't Geneon's catalogue, but rather the fact that the company had been channel stuffing. Retailers had an overload of unwanted inventory that would eventually be returned, and under the proposed contract, Geneon was to pass that liability onto ADV (for whatever reason, ADV didn't become aware of the condition until the last minute).
FWIW, ADV had also been channel stuffing (seems like an industry-wide epidemic, but ADV and Geneon were reportedly the worst when it came to pressuring retail chains to accept more stock than the market needed) - notice the frequent clearance sales for both companies - so it's not like their business practices were any rosier. Nevertheless, I can't blame them for pulling out of the deal |
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I also remember that.
To be fair, though, that is apparently the mode in Japan. Viz at a panel commented one of the big differences between the Japanese style of distribution & the American is in Japan the publishing company decides how many copies each store will be sent & finds our method of allowing the stores to order what they want insane. How can a store know how many copies they want to sell?
It's also why I said if one looks at how things came down, it looks like ADV was cruising along thinking everything was rosy, but then in making the decision of whether or not to sign the Geneon deal, they discovered their house was a bit more unstable than they had been thinking. The actions they took are more in line to what one does in bad times-jetison the crap & buckle down to ride out hard times. Look at Circuit City looking to avoid bankruptcy by closing 150 stores when just last year they announced they were going to be opening stores at a far greater rate than they had been in the past.
One day the world is your oyster & the next you've been trounced. You pick up the pieces & either quit or try to move forward.
| Quote: | | Yes, it was a climate of idiots who read tabloids and who don't know a thing about the political process.. |
Because the nation did so well under Bush, we kept him for 8 years, huh?
| Quote: | | Schwarzenegger enjoyed a large degree of success and victories in his early governorship,[41] including repealing an unpopular increase in the vehicle registration fee |
| Quote: | | Schwarzenegger then went against the advice of fellow Republican strategists and appointed a Democrat, Susan Kennedy, as his Chief of Staff.[42] Schwarzenegger gradually moved towards a more politically moderate position, determined to build a winning legacy with only a short time to go until the next gubernatorial election. |
| Quote: | | In recent years, many commentators have seen Schwarzenegger as moving away from the right and towards the center or center-left of the political spectrum. After hearing a speech by Schwarzenegger at the 2006 Martin Luther King, Jr. breakfast, San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom said that, "he's becoming a Democrat again [...] He's running back, not even to the center. I would say center-left." |
As I said, he seemed to be a moderate who would work with both parties. I'm more than a little sick of nothing getting done in the government due to party politics.
Don't get me started on Mayor Wilson who went on to Senator & Governor.
| Quote: | | Schwarzenegger does not accept his governor's salary of $175,000 per year, and instead donates it to charities.[48] |
Be nice if more politicians did this. Of course it would be even better if they left it in the budget to cover other government programs |
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tempest
ANN Editor in Chief
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 7058
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:19 pm |
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| Quote: | | if for no other reason than they do have a job. |
| GATSU wrote: | | No, writing for ANN is a hobby. A paid hobby, but a hobby nonetheless. A job is when you actually bust your hump day in and day out doing menial work for ungrateful jerks who like to extend your hours, while cutting your benefits, or laying you off before you're even eligible for benefits. |
Depends on who you're talking about. There are 5 people that run this website fulltime. For us, this is our job. Yes it was born out of a hobby, but it isn't anymore. A lot ofour work is menial, we do indeed bust our humps day in and day out, the hours are pretty horrible. I like to believe that the staff doesn't think the boss is an ungrateful jerk though.
As for the freelancers. Several of them are professional writers who write day in and day out for different publications, ANN is but one of their "employers" but it is indeed a job for them.
For others, ANN is supplemental income while they study, or in addition to their 9-5 jobs.
And yes, for some people this is purely a hobby.
Trust me, there are days some of us want nothing to do with ANN. Most of us, myself included, still love anime, but sometimes we're sick of the job. But like any job, we continue. If it was a hobby we'd other stop, or put it aside for awhile and get back to it later.
-t |
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tempest
ANN Editor in Chief
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 7058
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:26 pm |
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| tempest wrote: | | Uhhh, Sojitz isn't dead. Sojitz is a large Japanese corporation worth roughly 200 million dollars. |
| ManOfRust wrote: |
Just to nit-pick a bit  , but they are a lot bigger than that. 200 million is peanuts in the business world |
Sorry, 200 billion (market cap).
-t |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8418
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:29 pm |
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Yueh: CPM's stuff is worth rescuing, but not Geneon?
Really?
Yep.
| Quote: | | Geneon gave us Hellsing. Tenchi was pretty damed popular there in its day. Sailor Moon. (Funi actually expressed interest in SM, but the license had lapsed) CardCaptor Sakura. Fushigi Yugi. Trigun. Bastard is just too much fun & every anime fan should see it. The Ah! My Goddess movie & the Mini Goddesses stuff. Armitage had it's fans in its day, as has Captain Harlock. No one likes Chobits here, do they? Dual was on t1v & was quite popular at one time as was El Hazard. The mech fans I've spoken with seem fond of Fafnir & Galexy Angel (aimless as it is) seems to have a following of some sort. I hear far more praise of Gankutsuou than of ADV's Moby Dick release. Gatekeepers had a following in its day also & Mahoromatic was apparently worthy of rescuing by your precious ADV even if it is completely fan service. Gungrave, Last Exile, Lunar Legend Tsukihime, R.O.D., Samurai Champloo, Sol Bianca, Soul Taker, Vandred, X TV--these are all crap, unworthy titles Geneon released? |
They charged us twice for Hellsing; Tenchi only appeals to people who never saw harem anime from the 80s; SM + CCS aren't Geneon titles; FY and Trigun are ok, but they don't reflect Geneon's choices in general; Bastard is boring and, from what I hear, not even as good as the manga; the AMG movie is a cash-in, while Mini-Goddesses is fun, but not necessarily as likely to make money-since MB clearly didn't get its investment back on the first tv series; no one like Armitage, and Harlock doesn't have a fanbase here; Chobits was a flavor of the year anime which most people couldn't stand; no one remembers Dual or El Hazard; Fafnir is an Escaflowne-wannabe and Galaxy Angel is owned by Bandai; Gankutsuou might be nice, but it's a little confused in terms of its artistic direction; and ADV's licensed quality artsy stuff, too-like Kino's Journey and the Shinkai stuff; no one remembers Gatekeepers and Mahoromatic was probably cheap; Gungrave was based off a mediocre shooter; Last Exile is a Laputa-wannabe; Tsukihime got picked up; R.O.D. is for nerds; Champloo is overrated, much like most things from that director [And this is coming from a guy who still thinks he's owed credit for a certain scene from Bebop borrowed in Batman Begins.] ; like Silent Mobius, Sol Bianca works better as a series of shorts; no one remembers Soul Taker, and Gonzo sucks; CLAMP's 15 minutes are winding down, and people moved on from X to Death Note.
| Quote: | | Because we all know Zone of Enders, Yumeria, Yugo, Wild Arms, Super Milk-chan, Sukeban Deka, Spriggan, Sin, Maps, Spectral Force, Shadow Skill tv, Samurai Showdown, The Samurai, Samurai Gun, Ruin Explorers, Ninja Resurrection, Plastic Little, Power Dolls, Princess 9, Neo Ranga, Najica, Moeyo Ken, Magical Play, The Crystania movie, Legend of the Mystical Ninja, Final Fantasy Unlimited, Ghost Stories, Happy Lesson, Hello Kitty, Dragon Knight: Wheel of Time, Debutant Detective Corp, Cyberteam in Akihabara, Cosplay Complex, Moby Dick, Chance Pop Sessions, Borgmen, Birth, & Bastof Syndrome are all WORTHY DEEP titles every anime fan should have in their collection on the strength of a company as wise & wonderful as ADV deemed them worthy of being released in the United States |
Not all of them, but a few of them. [And Gurren Lagaan owes its art style to Birth, so...] Either way, though, they all have name recognition and are less obnoxious than the fluffy crap at Geneon, so that's what matters.
| Quote: | | In fact, there is probably far more mindless jiggle in ADV's catalog than in Geneon's & both favored jiggle/harem titles. |
Perhaps, but it's jiggle done in a fun way, not in a "Please buy more of these dvds" way.
| Quote: | Tenchi wasn't huge in the day?
Cardacaptor Sakura?
Sailor Moon?
Fushigi Yugi?
Trigun? |
As I said before, two of those titles weren't from Geneon, just distributed by them. And about the only real success on there would be Trigun, since Tenchi was never as big as Ranma, and FY was always overpriced until the company's end.
| Quote: | | Bamboo's opinions are her own. Her opinions hold no more value than the next person's opinions. I agree with some & disagree with others. I really hope there is no one so sad out there as to totally base their entertainment choices on the opinoion of 1 critic. My teen & I have similar tastes & tend to love A LOT of the same movies, but we do have our differences such as she loved Dark Knight & I didn't. LOTS of people loved Dark Knight. I didn't. I was slightly disappointed over all the glowing comments people made which probably raised my expectations to a level the movie didn't meet. |
I actually agree with you on "The Long Night", and even your point about popularity not reflecting the quality of a title. But even the hardcore Geneon fans were not exactly talking much about the company by the time it was over. That WW2 time-travel anime was about all the attention the company got, before it folded.
| Quote: | | Because the nation did so well under Bush, we kept him for 8 years, huh? |
What can I say? Stupidity and ignorance at a higher level. People were so "outraged" at Bill Clinton's affair and gay couples getting married that they ignored the real issues. Though if you want to be technical, he didn't actually "win" those elections, but whatever.
| Quote: | | Schwarzenegger enjoyed a large degree of success and victories in his early governorship,[41] including repealing an unpopular increase in the vehicle registration fee |
That isn't pro-Democrat. And that's the only thing he's succeeded in doing since running. Also, why shouldn't a-holes who drive over-sized monsters of vehicles which pollute the air be required to pay to register them? Oh, and he hasn't exactly done anything about the gas hikes, so you ended up paying more in the long run.
| Quote: | | Schwarzenegger then went against the advice of fellow Republican strategists and appointed a Democrat, Susan Kennedy, as his Chief of Staff.[42] Schwarzenegger gradually moved towards a more politically moderate position, determined to build a winning legacy with only a short time to go until the next gubernatorial election. |
But his actual policies have not once been on the side of the Democrats, just corporations. He stopped a lawsuit against Enron which would have forced them to pay us back for overcharging us for power; he voted against legislation which would have required ships in our port to reduce their smoke; and he just voted against legislation which would have stopped HMOs from dropping and denying people for existing pre-existing medical conditions.[/quote] |
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MokonaModoki
Subscriber
Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:30 pm |
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| GATSU wrote: | | Since 2005? Up until Sojitz bailed on them, they had one of the best-selling anime shows of the year! |
Yes, since 2005. I'm not sure which show you are talking about, or what impact you think it had, but ADV's share of the market has been declining steadily for several years.
ADV's market share in the first half of 2008 was down 66% vs 2005, and its sales were down 15% vs the first half of 2007. Geneon's market in the first half of 2008 was down 79% vs 2005, but its sales were down a whopping 71% against the first half of 2008 (for pretty obvious reasons). Does that not suggest to you that ADV fell much further from 2005 to 2007 than Geneon did? Because they did.
Now you could ignore the actual sales data and say that ADV was succeeding magnificently because their catalog was just that awesome, and CCSYueh could look at it and say that ADV was failing miserably because they were clearly mismanaged. And I'd disagree with both of you. My own randomly derived opinion (that I'm too lazy to look up data for) is that such a decline vs the overall 30% market shrinkage in the same period probably came from distributing a lot fewer titles combined with significant anime buying dollars going to Naruto, Bleach, and Death Note.
| Quote: | | If most of their shows were like Black Lagoon, and not like Karin, then you'd be right. |
I was wondering how ridiculous your effort to salvage that position might be, and you have not disappointed. It's not like every ADV title is Le Chevalier D'Eon after all. Black Lagoon and Karin represent extremes of the spectrum of titles that Geneon has. Qualitatively (absent any prejudice against either company) the Geneon and ADV catalogs were in about the same place. They both had several gems and multiple turds.
| CCSYueh wrote: | | It's also why I said if one looks at how things came down, it looks like ADV was cruising along thinking everything was rosy, but then in making the decision of whether or not to sign the Geneon deal, they discovered their house was a bit more unstable than they had been thinking. |
I doubt that ADV thought everything was "rosy" at anytime in 2007, because the market for anime was getting increasingly crappy across the board (unless you were pimping anime from Shonen Jump titles). For all we know the JCI partners could have objected to the Geneon deal on the basis that it would have a negative impact on the ARM licenses (perhaps even threatened to pull them as far back as a year ago). Or maybe it really was a bad deal and a year of shelf-stuffed stock may have needed to move to make the deal palatable to Funimation. Anything is possible when you are just making things up. I don't even recall ever seeing any credible report about whether ADV or Geneon was the party to actually back out of the deal, much less a reason why. |
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CCSYueh
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 1913
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:40 pm |
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| Quote: | | SM + CCS aren't Geneon titles; |
Ah...
CCS was always included (as Cardcaptors & CCS) under the Geneon sales & the dvds in my collections say Pioneer or Geneon (since Geneon was once Pioneer or took over Pioneer or whatever)
And the same for the Sailor Moon titles outside of Stars which hasn't come out here & the 2 uncut sub-only seasons ADV released--either Pioneer or Geneon. Once when there was a debate somewhere I actually took a couple hours or 7 to check out the labels on my collection. I assumed it was largely ADV (which it was) but figured MB was 2nd. Nope. Geneon & Funi beat out MB.
| Quote: | | They charged us twice for Hellsing; |
How did they charge us twice for Hellsing?
Just because there were 2 series?
DIFFERENT series?
Unlike ADV & its repackaging of EVA.
I'd say Tenchi is more charging twice, but that was still the animators remaking the series ad nauseum
Believe it or not before I tallied up my stuff I was in the "Pioneer is too damned expensive" camp, but I realized 1-how much of their stuff I had & 2-how many of the titles I really enjoyed. Before that I was in ADV's camp pretty solid, but then I got a tad burned at their style. Yeah, they gave us a lot of extras, but often their OWN extras, not the stuff from Japan. They stripped extras for their sets for a time.
But I do have a lot of ADV stuff. I just feel Geneon gave me better value because I enjoy more of their titles. ADV is more like Walmart-quantity over quality.
| Quote: | | Galaxy Angel is owned by Bandai; |
...my list says Geneon released the dvds. I actually saw it as pretty damned fluffy.
| Quote: | | Tenchi only appeals to people who never saw harem anime |
Tenchi & Dual & El Hazard have their moments.
I thought you were raving about CPM's old school titles.
At least Tenchi has Ryoko & she's cool.
| Quote: | | Mahoromatic was probably cheap |
That's why ADV rescued the license?
| Quote: | | FY and Trigun are ok, but they don't reflect Geneon's choices in general |
Because Geneon didn't release other harem titles aimed at the female audience like Saiyuki Reload & Saiyuki Reload Gunlock or Story of Saiunkoku or Shonen Onmyoji or Kyo Kara Maoh.
| Quote: | | CLAMP's 15 minutes are winding down, and people moved on from X to Death Note. |
Really?
I believe Bandai has enough faith in Clamp to be releasing the rather old Clamp School Detectives title in December. And god knows Code Geass with Clamp-designed characters isn't making any money whatsoever. Same for Tsubasa & XxxHolic. All the peopel I see talking about them on boards must be the same person who took the time to register a bunch of screen names to make it seem Clamp is still popular.
Methinks you are a major case of "If I don't like it, it's crap"
At least I'll acknowledge titles are popular with others that I don't like such as Karin.
| Quote: | | [And Gurren Lagaan owes its art style to Birth, so...] |
Gurren Lagann owes it's style to Dead Leaves.
It IS Dead Leaves with a different plot.
My teen told me I HAD to buy Gurren Lagann because it was so great. She also LOVES Dead Leaves while I'm fine with just watching Kappei Yamaguchi's interviews on the extras. According to the extras on the dvd, Dead Leaves was an attempt at western-style animation commissioned by the people who put it out here (or at least the animators made comments about doing certain things the licensee asked for which sure sounds like a commissioned piece).
| Quote: | | Not all of them, but a few of them. [And Gurren Lagaan owes its art style to Birth, so...] Either way, though, they all have name recognition and are less obnoxious than the fluffy crap at Geneon, so that's what matters. |
Back to "I don't like it, so it's crap"
| Quote: | | That WW2 time-travel anime was about all the attention the company got, before it folded. |
???
I saw lots of interest in Saiunkoku & Kyo Kara Maoh. Even some for Shonen Onmyoji. Don't forget Hellsing.
| Quote: | | I doubt that ADV thought everything was "rosy" at anytime in 2007, because the market for anime was getting increasingly crappy across the board (unless you were pimping anime from Shonen Jump titles). For all we know the JCI partners could have objected to the Geneon deal on the basis that it would have a negative impact on the ARM licenses (perhaps even threatened to pull them as far back as a year ago). Or maybe it really was a bad deal and a year of shelf-stuffed stock may have needed to move to make the deal palatable to Funimation. Anything is possible when you are just making things up. I don't even recall ever seeing any credible report about whether ADV or Geneon was the party to actually back out of the deal, much less a reason why. |
I feel ADV was mismanaged to a point. Maybe it's just they did things in a big way as Texans have a rep of doing. They did seem to be acting as though they were the big fish in the pond & I do seem to recall someone commented after they & Geneon went on the back burner license prices dropped with the suggestion the 2 were driving up the prices for licneses.
My perception of ADV is they are sort of like a guy I knew who wasn't a millionaire by any means, but loved flash money around & act big even if he wasn't. They seemed to be licensing quantity over quality-flood the shelves with their titles. I felt the manga was a mistake-they were an anime company & it turned out they did make a wrong turn there. They didn't ease into it as many would, but in that big Texas stereotype of 50 titles all at once. Look at Del Rey-an actual book publisher & they are still very conservative. The anime showings in Texas, the fan club dvds they apparently were losing money on, the Eva live action they never got off the ground, the anime network, not to metion all the merchandise. T-shirts, I can see, but a BBQ with Menchi? Had they stuck with anime, I do feel they maybe would have been in a better position. I think they spread themselves too thin & maybe took too long to realize how thin they were spread. Maybe they saw themselves in cometition with Funi-personal rivalry with the fellow Texas anime studio, but it just seemed they moved from being a quiet little anime licensee to trrying to be the voice off anime in America or something & couldn't live up to their own image of who they were.
At the time of the Geneon Deal, they suddenly shrank up everything which is why I use the terminology everything seemed rosy to them. Maybe they thought they were immune to the issues the rest of the industry was having. All I know is their actions since last September seem like a turtle pulling back into its shell.
I don't wish them ill. I hope they pull out wiser for what they went thru. I do not favor only have a couple licensees because each licensee does seem to lean in certain directions so losing any of them is sad. CPM & MB have always been my last hope for overlooked titles so CPM folding up is a loss. ADV had some of the best jiggle in the day-Burn Up, Sorcerer Hunters, etc. Hopefully we'll get back to it again. They alwasy seemed to license stufff someone at the company liked-there was a definite leaning toward jiggle, comedy & sci-fi in the Eva mode so I'd be happy to see more Burn Up & less Yumeria.
And I hope Geneon, now it's returned, brings us Season 3 & the OVA of KKM, Season 2 of Saiunkoku, & the Saiyuki OVA. |
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 8418
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:40 pm |
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Tempest: | Quote: | | There are 5 people that run this website fulltime. For us, this is our job. Yes it was born out of a hobby, but it isn't anymore. A lot ofour work is menial, we do indeed bust our humps day in and day out, the hours are pretty horrible. I like to believe that the staff doesn't think the boss is an ungrateful jerk though. |
It's still not a job in the sense that you can choose your hours and
you're generally paid by the article/update, and not by the hour. Plus, you get no real benefits, outside of maybe travel pay.
Mokona: | Quote: | | Yes, since 2005. I'm not sure which show you are talking about, or what impact you think it had, but ADV's share of the market has been declining steadily for several years. |
I'm only talking about Getbackers.
| Quote: | | ADV's market share in the first half of 2008 was down 66% vs 2005, and its sales were down 15% vs the first half of 2007. Geneon's market in the first half of 2008 was down 79% vs 2005, but its sales were down a whopping 71% against the first half of 2008 (for pretty obvious reasons). Does that not suggest to you that ADV fell much further from 2005 to 2007 than Geneon did? |
Um, no, your stats suggest the complete opposite situation.
| Quote: | | My own randomly derived opinion (that I'm too lazy to look up data for) is that such a decline vs the overall 30% market shrinkage in the same period probably came from distributing a lot fewer titles combined with significant anime buying dollars going to Naruto, Bleach, and Death Note. |
That didn't stop DMC from making money, though.
| Quote: | | It's not like every ADV title is Le Chevalier D'Eon after all. |
That just means they're able to balance niche titles with bankable titles better than Geneon.
| Quote: | | Qualitatively (absent any prejudice against either company) the Geneon and ADV catalogs were in about the same place. They both had several gems and multiple turds. |
The difference is that Geneon had nothing but turds by the end.
Yueh: Forgot a few things.
| Quote: | | As I said, he seemed to be a moderate who would work with both parties. I'm more than a little sick of nothing getting done in the government due to party politics. |
You seem to ignore the fact that Arnie refused to sign the budget for a big chunk of this year, in spite of both parties in the legistature endorsing it.
| Quote: | | Be nice if more politicians did this. |
It'd be nice if more politicians were owned by utility companies which rip us off?
| Quote: | How did they charge us twice for Hellsing?
Just because there were 2 series?
DIFFERENT series? |
They're only different in that one continues from where the manga left off, and one doesn't.
| Quote: | | Unlike ADV & its repackaging of EVA. |
Well, if you've already seen Eva, you don't have to buy the re-releases. But with Hellsing, they're saying, "The tv show you spent money on isn't really the definitive version of the series, so act now and you can get the next one."
| Quote: | | Yeah, they gave us a lot of extras, but often their OWN extras, not the stuff from Japan. |
Sometimes, extras are simply not available on the Japanese end.
| Quote: | | That's why ADV rescued the license? |
Yep.
| Quote: | | Because Geneon didn't release other harem titles aimed at the female audience like Saiyuki Reload & Saiyuki Reload Gunlock or Story of Saiunkoku or Shonen Onmyoji or Kyo Kara Maoh. |
Saiyuki was actually their licensing peak. After that, they just released off-beat stuff like that incest love story anime and that kid who recycles stuff anime.
| Quote: | | I believe Bandai has enough faith in Clamp to be releasing the rather old Clamp School Detectives title in December. |
It's an old and cheap license, so nothing lost for them.
| Quote: | | And god knows Code Geass with Clamp-designed characters isn't making any money whatsoever. |
People don't watch Geass, because CLAMP worked on the characters. People watch Geass, because it appeals to the same fans who watch Gundam Wing and Seed.
| Quote: | | Same for Tsubasa & XxxHolic. |
All I hear is people complaining that those titles aren't really as good as the stuff CLAMP used to work on; so I imagine they're only doing as well here as Ranma.
| Quote: | | Gurren Lagann owes it's style to Dead Leaves. |
Since Gurren Lagaan is an homage to old-school anime, it owes its art style to Birth. They even have the same red-haired girl, for eff's sakes!
| Quote: | | Back to "I don't like it, so it's crap" |
It's the other way around, actually.
| Quote: | | I saw lots of interest in Saiunkoku & Kyo Kara Maoh. Even some for Shonen Onmyoji. Don't forget Hellsing. |
If there was that much interest, the company would still be here.
| Quote: | | the Eva live action they never got off the ground |
Never say never. Akira and Speed Racer have been in development hell for a while, too. |
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MokonaModoki
Subscriber
Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 417
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:10 pm |
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| GATSU wrote: | | Quote: | | ADV's market share in the first half of 2008 was down 66% vs 2005, and its sales were down 15% vs the first half of 2007. Geneon's market in the first half of 2008 was down 79% vs 2005, but its sales were down a whopping 71% against the first half of 2008 (for pretty obvious reasons). Does that not suggest to you that ADV fell much further from 2005 to 2007 than Geneon did? |
Um, no, your stats suggest the complete opposite situation. |
So your point would be... what? That a 71% drop in sales over the past year didn't represent the majority of Geneon's 79% drop in market share since 2005? Very funny.
| Quote: | | That didn't stop DMC from making money, though. |
Obviously I didn't say anything about any company or title not making money. And really, neither have you.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | It's not like every ADV title is Le Chevalier D'Eon after all. |
That just means they're able to balance niche titles with bankable titles better than Geneon. |
There is no conceivable relationship between what I said and this blatant trolling.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Qualitatively (absent any prejudice against either company) the Geneon and ADV catalogs were in about the same place. They both had several gems and multiple turds. |
The difference is that Geneon had nothing but turds by the end. |
Ignoring for the moment the utter falsehood of the statement for everyone not residing on troll planet GATSU, what does that indicate that you meant when you said:
| Quote: | | If most of their shows were like Black Lagoon, and not like Karin, then you'd be right. |
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