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RE: Manga versus Newtype


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Emerje



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 6226
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:24 pm Reply with quote
Could someone (if allowed) type up the exact column that was printed in Newtype? I think if you write it as a quote complete with source we could get around any reproduction copyright problems (this being a news site and all). Can anyone help? From reading the letter it sounded like it was a review, but now with Lord_Satorious saying it was just a column of the mag I'm a bit more curious what it was and even why it was worth printing.
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Anime_Bri



Joined: 12 Nov 2002
Posts: 4
Location: animesystem.com

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:20 am Reply with quote
I, personally, agree with some things that Lord has stated.

I also thought Ghost in the Shell was a plain and tedious film (But I am still a hardcore Masamune Shirow fan).

People have opinions about things, and for a company to just blow up against a critic that says his own thoughts is actually pretty astonding.

It seems childish, and the fact that they can't seem to just take the comments and understand that many people may not like their product is very un-professional.

If they can't take comments on their products, maybe they should not sell things, since essentialy, their products are for people who likes it, not for those who do not.

I'm sorry if this is hard to read, I'm up pretty late.
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crazyEVAotaku



Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Posts: 3
Location: Roswell, GA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:38 am Reply with quote
"EVA - Deuce/Deuce

Ah, Evangelion: Death and Rebirth, the harrowing 'almost' conclusion to the epic Eva series that ended on a cryptically lame note. For the uninformed, Evangelion takes place after an event called the '2nd Impact,' which terminally inconvenienced half the world (the 1st Impact being the one that spanked the dinosaurs and gave us the platypus) and concerns a group called NERV and 14 year old rugrats who pilot lanky bio-mechs that contain the souls of their dead mammies against bizzaro meanies known as 'ANGELS.'

... most of this removed by tempest, see below


Manga Entertainment did a top notch Job with these DVDs. Both have great menues, incredible sound and boring audio commentaries. Warning: for some frustrated viewers, these DVDs might bring on the "4th Impact" - hurling these DVDs against the wall. But Shinji, I don't blame you, I blame your parents."

Now that I think about it, why did Manga even respond to this? Whoever wrote it (there is no name listed) didn't criticize Manga's DVDs. They were criticizing the movies, GAINAX's works. I gotta go to bed. World History test tomorrow. Confused
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Case



Joined: 09 Apr 2002
Posts: 1016

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:30 am Reply with quote
Armblessed wrote:

Manga is not saying they are mad because someone wrote a bad review of Eva. Manga is not writing because someone remarked on the poor quality of their DVDs (something I would agree with). Manga is saying that the letter is unthoughtful, poorly written, and poorly researched and therefore should not have been published as it reflects badly on the author and NewType.


So... what you're saying is, you think Manga Entertainment is trying to act as Newtype's executive editors - attempting to censor Newtype's content based on their own subjective opinions?

In all fairness, how is that any better than whining about a bad review?

Just curious to hear your opinion. Confused

crazyEVAotaku wrote:

(the 1st Impact being the one that spanked the dinosaurs and gave us the platypus)


That's the best part of the whole article, right there. Woohooo. Laughing

Anyone else think that this guy sounds a lot like LordByronious?

You don't have any long lost twin brothers, do you LB? Very Happy
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 3250
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:31 am Reply with quote
Well, now that I have finally read the "review", I feel a lot better! Indeed, this could hardly be called a review. I kinda understand Manga's reaction, but then again this just sounds like an editorial rant, somebody who got up on his soapbox because he just hates NGE sooooo much and wanted to let the steam out. It was pretty entertaining, at least for an Eva-hater like me.

Now I have to give a quick response to this comment:
crazyEVAotaku wrote:
Evangelion is my total favorite anime of all time, but all my friends hate it. They believe that it's far too sophisticated and confusing to be enjoyed. What kind of stupid reason is that? They all enjoy the senseless violence-like series, for example, Fist of the North Star, which I can't stand. Now, as you're reading this, some of you are saying "I hear ya, buddy!" while the rest of you are probably like "How can you hate Fist of the North Star??? It's so bloody and cool!!!"

This is an attitude that, sadly, comes back relatively often among Eva-lovers (please note I'm not making any sweeping generalizations here). The feeling that they are superior because they can appreciate the art and sophistication and deep meaning of Eva, and all who do not love Eva are barbaric morons who only lust after sex and gore in anime. Well I got news for you, my little crazyEVAotaku. There's a good bunch of anime fans who are pretty intelligent, who like deep anime, and yet who hate Evangelion. Personally, I think Eva is incredibly shallow crap, a pure illusion of deepness hidden by a jumble of pseudo-intellectual babble. If you want deep anime, try Lain or Jin-Roh or the Patlabor movies or Boogiepop Phantom. Ok, you may disagree with me, but don't assume you're oh-so intelligent just because you like Eva.
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Armblessed



Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 20
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:36 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Sailormech wrote:
So... what you're saying is, you think Manga Entertainment is trying to act as Newtype's executive editors - attempting to censor Newtype's content based on their own subjective opinions?

In all fairness, how is that any better than whining about a bad review?


I guess one could say that Manga is offering their opinion right back at NewType, but when the CEO of Manga writes a letter to the editor of NewType it becomes a big deal. More of a big deal that it should have been. Still, I agree with Manga's opinion, though not necessarily with what they did. I feel Manga is not trying to "censor" the ideas, but the way in which the ideas are presented. I should think its an accepted rule among book and magazine editors and publishers that you wouldnt really want to publish poorly written material. A review should be respectful to what someone created, whether the reviewer likes the finished product or not.
I hope this sufficiently answers your question, sailormech.

... Unless of course this is an elaborate scheme between Manga and NewType to increase publicicty and interest in their products. I've got it all figured out.
Conspiracies are fun.
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Craeyst Raygal



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 1383
Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:34 am Reply with quote
Eva is hype. It thrives on hype. And it builds hype.

Yes, it's artistic. Yes, it's deep. However, unless you're a psychology major, you're probably just going to write the thing off as a hugely melodramatic mecha series that takes itself too seriously.

That aside. Eva didn't get it's fair dues in the review. Neither did Manga Entertainment.
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Tempest
ANN Publisher & CEO


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 8540
Location: Do not message me for support.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Emerje wrote:

Could someone (if allowed) type up the exact column that was printed in Newtype? I think if you write it as a quote complete with source we could get around any reproduction copyright problems (this being a news site and all). Can anyone help? From reading the letter it sounded like it was a review, but now with Lord_Satorious saying it was just a column of the mag I'm a bit more curious what it was and even why it was worth printing.


Unfortunately (for this discussion), the fair use clauses that allows news services and reviewers a certain ammount of freedom when dealing with copyrights do not give us permission to re-print someone else's article in its entirety.

We may re-transmit any facts that are news provided we re-write them in our own words, and we may quote portions of other publications for review and discussion purposes.

In fact, the ammount of the original article that I left in the above post is stretching it.

If you didn't already read crazyEVAotaku's post in its original entirety and don't plan to buy a copy of Newtype (shame on you), try PM'ing him. I'm not responsible for what people do in their personal messages. Smile
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 861
Location: Philippe for America! He is five.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Okay, maybe Manga has the right to be angry over a negative review. And I do agree that the Newtype "review" sucks. Sucks hard.

But, this isn't about the artistic meaning of the Evangelion movies. This is about some CORPORATE CEO flyin' off the handle and making a bunch of kee-razy accusations about the publisher.

"Letters to the Editor" are what people like US do when a review of poor quality like that is published.

Of course, I would not have even noticed the goldurn review had Manga not made such a big hissy fit about it.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot, guys!

PS., no, crazyEVAotaku is not my doppleganger. Such accusations are slanderous, and TOTALLY misrepresent the true artistic value of my ACTUAL doppleganger! You must be saying such things because YOU don't HAVE a doppleganger! Expect a nasty letter written directly to your editor!
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Craeyst Raygal



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 1383
Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 5:02 pm Reply with quote
Very good point, Lord Byronius. Manga's CEO made a HUGE error in judgement when he went off the deep end like that. Even if that is the truth. that ADV is just trying to discredit Evangelion as a series worth watching in order to further its own mindf**k mecha series, (Betterman, I think? I know they have something besides Zone of the Enders, and it's trippy besides) you do NOT go out and say it. It's bad business. Besides, now any "serious" magazine or online publication will be looking over their shoulder each time they review a Manga Entertainment property, fearful that they're going to get railed at if they say "you know, this sucks".

Manga should've kept quiet, and used this review as leverage when ADV comes calling to get Evangelion on their network.
(how it should have gone)
ADV: So, *drops big bag of money on M's desk* do we have a deal?
M: Well, almost. You think you could run a retraction on this. *slides article across desk*
ADV: Consider it done. *has reviewer shot, new reviewer writes cynical review wondering "what was that idiot thinking, this film rocks*

See, good deal. Good press. As opposed to looking whiny in the eyes of many otaku.

Off the subject, does anyone else think Keith Burgess would make a good hired goon? Somehow, I think he could pull off that "sent to stomp your head in" look. Wink
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Jlbkwrm
Old Regular


Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:11 pm Reply with quote
Craeyst Raygal wrote:

Even if that is the truth. that ADV is just trying to discredit Evangelion as a series worth watching in order to further its own mindf**k mecha series, (Betterman, I think? I know they have something besides Zone of the Enders, and it's trippy besides) you do NOT go out and say it.


I think the "ADV is trying to discredit Eva to screw with Manga!" thing rings false largely because ADV owns the Eva TV series. And, while they don't own the movies, they'd still (in this scenario) want to pimp their own product. So, the review would have been filled with talk about how disappointing the movies were as a conclusion--but, the reviewer went out of his way to slam the TV ending, too.

The series you were thinking of was probably Gasaraki--Betterman is a Bandai title.
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Craeyst Raygal



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 1383
Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2002 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Thanks for correcting me. I don't follow the wacked out mecha titles very closely, since too many of them come off as Eva clones, and I'm no great fan of Eva.

Give me Gundam or give me death. Though Macross is fine in its stead.
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FigNewton



Joined: 21 Jul 2002
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:19 am Reply with quote
Dear Manga Ent;

Please kindly STFU and start spending your energy on fixing your actual problems. Whining about one stupid review when, for EXAMPLE, you've been promising Giant Robo dvds since long before you even got the Eva movie license

Thanks~
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Neilworms



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 155
Location: Chicago IL

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 9:00 am Reply with quote
Quote:
This is an attitude that, sadly, comes back relatively often among Eva-lovers (please note I'm not making any sweeping generalizations here). The feeling that they are superior because they can appreciate the art and sophistication and deep meaning of Eva, and all who do not love Eva are barbaric morons who only lust after sex and gore in anime. Well I got news for you, my little crazyEVAotaku. There's a good bunch of anime fans who are pretty intelligent, who like deep anime, and yet who hate Evangelion. Personally, I think Eva is incredibly shallow crap, a pure illusion of deepness hidden by a jumble of pseudo-intellectual babble. If you want deep anime, try Lain or Jin-Roh or the Patlabor movies or Boogiepop Phantom. Ok, you may disagree with me, but don't assume you're oh-so intelligent just because you like Eva.


Amen brother! Comments like these posed by crazyEVAotaku prove that not only those who are prejudiced against a series make unfounded accuasations but those who are obsessed with a series make similar statments, just with a different bias. Personally I am trying to write a review for epinions (a site I haven't written for in a long time) that tries to deconstruct evangelion on an inteligent level, and doesn't just fling insults in its direction.

What I am trying to do (which I think maybe impossible) is to make a review that gets the evangelion fans to question the "intelligent/sophisticated" nature of that show, problem is that no matter how well stated my argument is (which is why I am taking so long to write it) I will probably get hurled a lot of insults when I finally perfect my review.

Btw, I like intelligent anime (all of Ghibli's work, Memories, Lain All of Oshii's films etc.), I also like Fist of the North Star, but for entirely different reasons than crazyEVAotaku's friends do.

It is so stupid, ridiculusly violent, and melodramatic (you should see a subtitled version (like I did at the local anime club) to hear the original soundtrack, really hammy!) that the whole thing is halirous! :D I was laughing for days thinking about "Hokto Shinkten" (said in a really deep slow rough voice). :lol:
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6981
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:57 am Reply with quote
"Personally I am trying to write a review for epinions (a site I haven't written for in a long time) that tries to deconstruct evangelion on an inteligent level, and doesn't just fling insults in its direction.

What I am trying to do (which I think maybe impossible) is to make a review that gets the evangelion fans to question the "intelligent/sophisticated" nature of that show, problem is that no matter how well stated my argument is (which is why I am taking so long to write it) I will probably get hurled a lot of insults when I finally perfect my review."

There is nothing, my friend, absolutely nothing to say about Evangelion that has not been said. I submit to you: don't write this "review". There are those who think it's genius and those who don't. You aren't going to blow anyone's mind by suggesting that "OMG EVA isn't intelligent after all it's just a series of meaningless visual metaphors!".. considering how that viewpoint has already been stated a few times in this thread alone, don't you think someone's beaten you to the punch?

Frankly, Evangelion is old news. Very few people seem to care about it anymore, and its artistic value has been debated into the ground at this point. There's nothing left to say. We've all heard it a thousand times.

Let it die.
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