Forum - View topic
RIGHT TURN ONLY!! - Back And Hopefully Better


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PlayBoi



Joined: 03 Aug 2002
Posts: 119
Location: Cali

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:13 am Reply with quote
ATHF is not canceled...it was a joke.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger My Anime
Goshin



Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 288
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:03 am Reply with quote
I'm sure she knew that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
lianncoop
ANN Columnist


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1706
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:41 am Reply with quote
Yup. Hence the *tear*. Anime smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:09 pm Reply with quote
I really don't think Bleach 2 improved enough over the first one to be considered a "buy it". It did have better pacing but the characters didn't get anymore interesting. Not a total waste, but it hasn't shown anything to set itself apart from the other "boy kicks ghost ass" titles out there. Personally I would put it under the borrow it section but thats just me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
lianncoop
ANN Columnist


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1706
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:01 am Reply with quote
Compared to everything else I reviewed, it was a "Buy It" title for me this week.

just an f.y.i.
Unless it's really "obvious" why something is a buy it, borrow it, or recycle it...the 1 (or 2) closest titles to the following sections could slide into that other category.

So...Bleach or Kenshin could go either way. Maniac Road could be in buy it. I tried to make things a little more distinct, but even with distiction...titles could slide...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:15 am Reply with quote
Hmm, that makes much more sense now. I guess thats one of the disadvantages of grouping things in three ratings. Ok, I'll stop whining now Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
lianncoop
ANN Columnist


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1706
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:24 am Reply with quote
Nah, you're not whining. Anime smile I appreciate feedback.

Yeah, there's a fine line between getting too specific or two general with groupings. So keeping the "slide rule" in mind, titles should (hopefully) be aptly placed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
sailor_titan



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 51
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:08 am Reply with quote
Okay, I'm ready to throttle something. This is the third or fourth time this has happened, so now's the time I get to throw in my 100 cents and bitch for awhile.

Why is that everyone likes to rat on Megumi Tachikawa?

I love Megumi Tachikawa. Her art is beautiful (some of my favorite manga art, ever) her characters are adorable (the MeimixAsuka Jr. Romance is my favorite, ever) and I actually think that Dream Saga's premise is arguably pretty orginal. Sure, the "girl goes to another world" premise isn't, but the idea of the Dream World is. Moreover, most series with this premise don't use traditional Japanese mythology as their premise. Besides, there's nothing original about "Escaflowne", "Fushigi Yuugi" and "Magic Knight Rayearth", but that doesn't stop people from fawning over them.

Also, I happen to think that her romances are far more genuine that those in other shoujo series. Like, for example, MARS. I went through 8 volumes of angst-filled crap (via borrowing from a friend) before I pulled myself away, thinking "knowing what happens next just isn't worth it." And we all must praise the realistic romance of Fushigi Yuugi, where even the gay guy falls for Miaka!!!

At least Tachikawa sticks to one or two people.

And you know, despite how much people love "Fruit's Basket", I found myself gagging toward the end of the TV series. By the end, Tohru was pratically treating us to "Touched by an Angel" style morality.

"Oh, I was a creep/freak/socially malajusted animal person, but now, because tohru gave me that LONG, BORING MONOLOGUE about how we're all GOOD PEOPLE, I've decided to COMPLETELY CHANGE MY PERSONALITY!!!"

*donks head against table*

</rant>.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Kagemusha



Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 2783
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:22 am Reply with quote
Wow. Angry fan talking about stuff I don't know. I actually like Fruits Basket (this may not seem like a big deal, but that and Kare Kano are the only Shojo things I read), but your argument does have its merets.
This is a bit off topic, but who the hell is your avatar lianncoop? Its been bugging me for a while. I've never seen this character before. I get asked that sometimes, but I don't think many people read BotI.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
lianncoop
ANN Columnist


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1706
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:07 am Reply with quote
sailor_titan wrote:
Why is that everyone likes to rat on Megumi Tachikawa?

I love Megumi Tachikawa. Her art is beautiful (some of my favorite manga art, ever) her characters are adorable (the MeimixAsuka Jr. Romance is my favorite, ever) and I actually think that Dream Saga's premise is arguably pretty orginal. Sure, the "girl goes to another world" premise isn't, but the idea of the Dream World is. Moreover, most series with this premise don't use traditional Japanese mythology as their premise. Besides, there's nothing original about "Escaflowne", "Fushigi Yuugi" and "Magic Knight Rayearth", but that doesn't stop people from fawning over them.

I didn't slam it or anything. Just commenting the artwork was light. Dream World premise doesn't seem too original to me. There always seems to be an "alternate" dream world in a shoujo/mahou shoujo story....

Quote:
Also, I happen to think that her romances are far more genuine that those in other shoujo series. Like, for example, MARS. I went through 8 volumes of angst-filled crap (via borrowing from a friend) before I pulled myself away, thinking "knowing what happens next just isn't worth it." And we all must praise the realistic romance of Fushigi Yuugi, where even the gay guy falls for Miaka!!!


Yeah, her romances ARE genuine, because they are very pure and childlike. I didn't knock her for that either. Mars was very angsty and it got especially tedious in the middle volumes. I don't ever remember praising the "realistic romance" of FY, though. Unless this is a general rant and not one aimed at me...

Just so you know. I liked Saint Tail and Mink, but they're aimed at a very specific audience. I try to be as general as possible when advising to readers what series to buy. The shoujo fans are going to pick up her stuff no matter what I say, but in the big scheme of things...there are series out there that have broader audience appeal. It's actually ranked pretty high in there...(if you read the "slide rule" post from earlier up).


Quote:
And you know, despite how much people love "Fruit's Basket", I found myself gagging toward the end of the TV series. By the end, Tohru was pratically treating us to "Touched by an Angel" style morality.

The anime ended in a cop out episode. The manga is better and goes further. Argue with me manga to manga...not manga to anime.

Kagemusha: avatar is Tezuka Kunimitsu from Prince of Tennis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
sailor_titan



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 51
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:28 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I didn't slam it or anything. Just commenting the artwork was light. Dream World premise doesn't seem too original to me. There always seems to be an "alternate" dream world in a shoujo/mahou shoujo story....


o.O like when? I've seen a lot of mahou shoujo shows, and I don't really remember a prevalence of dream worlds. I do remember a very large plethora of sparkly wands, idol singers and small, cute animals, but not dream worlds. ^^


Quote:
Yeah, her romances ARE genuine, because they are very pure and childlike. I didn't knock her for that either. Mars was very angsty and it got especially tedious in the middle volumes. I don't ever remember praising the "realistic romance" of FY, though. Unless this is a general rant and not one aimed at me...


It was more of a general rant. You aren't the first person who has had negative feelings about Megumi Tachikawa, but the last time it happend, it was in Animerica, which I didn't subscribe to and couildn't express my opinion as openly.

Quote:

The anime ended in a cop out episode. The manga is better and goes further. Argue with me manga to manga...not manga to anime.


I got to volume three of the manga, and it looked like it was still heading toward the "Tohru has the magical power to reform(tm)" scenario. I was hoping it would slow down more and take more time with each character, which would fix my complaint, but it looked like she was using the extra volumes to get more characters and side plots in, and not to develop people more slowly. any thoughts on that...?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 4621
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 12:17 pm Reply with quote
sailor_titan wrote:
Why is that everyone likes to rat on Megumi Tachikawa? I love Megumi Tachikawa. Her art is beautiful (some of my favorite manga art, ever) her characters are adorable (the MeimixAsuka Jr. Romance is my favorite, ever) and I actually think that Dream Saga's premise is arguably pretty orginal. Sure, the "girl goes to another world" premise isn't, but the idea of the Dream World is. Moreover, most series with this premise don't use traditional Japanese mythology as their premise.


First, I'm going to argue with you over Tachikawa's art style. It's boring, and looks like every other cutesy shoujo style out there. Example: Da Da Da, Kodoncha, and pretty much almost any other style shown in Ribon/Nakayoshi, which, may I point out in your defense of romance, are all manga that target little girls. There's your childlike romance explanation there.

lianncoop wrote:
I didn't slam it or anything. Just commenting the artwork was light. Dream World premise doesn't seem too original to me. There always seems to be an "alternate" dream world in a shoujo/mahou shoujo story....


sailor_titan wrote:
o.O like when? I've seen a lot of mahou shoujo shows, and I don't really remember a prevalence of dream worlds. I do remember a very large plethora of sparkly wands, idol singers and small, cute animals, but not dream worlds. ^^


That's so... original? No, it's not. It's been used before, though perhaps not as much as other genres. In fact, once a major series such as Sailor Moon uses a dream world premise, it's safe to say that other titles will use the idea too. There's another title called X/1999 created by CLAMP that relies quite a bit on the dream world also. Again, another major shoujo title. If you want more, I can list more. Add to the list Shamanic Princess. It may be an anime, but it's still shoujo, and one commonly seen.

sailor_titan wrote:
I got to volume three of the manga, and it looked like it was still heading toward the "Tohru has the magical power to reform(tm)" scenario. I was hoping it would slow down more and take more time with each character, which would fix my complaint, but it looked like she was using the extra volumes to get more characters and side plots in, and not to develop people more slowly. any thoughts on that...?


I'd like to just step in here and say something about Fruits Basket here. It's obvious you don't like it. You're right, it's full of Tohru opening up the eyes of the Soma family. The manga is pretty much nothing BUT this. However, you claim that it lacks character development is hard for me to believe. Fruits Basket is practically nothing but character development. The Soma family let Tohru, a normal human girl, into their lives. Because of this, one by one, they start to see what exactly makes them human, and what makes life worth living. That's pretty much all Fruits Basket it about. I find it a very enlightening series, and the perfect thing to watch/read when you're depressed. Obviously not your cup of tea when you're looking for something light and simple.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
ANN_Bamboo
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3771
Location: The OC

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:33 pm Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
sailor_titan wrote:
I got to volume three of the manga, and it looked like it was still heading toward the "Tohru has the magical power to reform(tm)" scenario. I was hoping it would slow down more and take more time with each character, which would fix my complaint, but it looked like she was using the extra volumes to get more characters and side plots in, and not to develop people more slowly. any thoughts on that...?


I'd like to just step in here and say something about Fruits Basket here. It's obvious you don't like it. You're right, it's full of Tohru opening up the eyes of the Soma family. The manga is pretty much nothing BUT this. However, you claim that it lacks character development is hard for me to believe. Fruits Basket is practically nothing but character development. The Soma family let Tohru, a normal human girl, into their lives. Because of this, one by one, they start to see what exactly makes them human, and what makes life worth living. That's pretty much all Fruits Basket it about. I find it a very enlightening series, and the perfect thing to watch/read when you're depressed. Obviously not your cup of tea when you're looking for something light and simple.


I agree with LGW here. One of the things that Fruits Basket *excelled* at was character development. There were able to introduce a very large cast of characters, and through Tohru, give a solid rundown of their past, their present, and how they change. Few shows with that many characters can get their characters fleshed out so well as Furuba. If there is ONE thing that I love Furuba about, it's the character development. It is solid and spot on, and there's not a single character that I left the series not knowing about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lianncoop
ANN Columnist


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 1706
Location: Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 1:38 pm Reply with quote
sailor_titan wrote:

o.O like when? I've seen a lot of mahou shoujo shows, and I don't really remember a prevalence of dream worlds. I do remember a very large plethora of sparkly wands, idol singers and small, cute animals, but not dream worlds. ^^

Yeah, Sailor Moon is a good example. I guess "mahou" shoujo doesn't have as many "dream wolrd" examples as I thought. Shoujo does though, and that was what I was thinking of. Maybe I'm just having trouble thinking of mahou shoujo titles....
*thinks* Miracles Girls...Tokyo Mew Mew...yeah those don't have "dream worlds"....

Shoujo titles, though.
Fushigi Yugi (not really dream world, but alternate world..which goes for a lot of these)
Alice 19th
Fantasy Land
Please Save My Earth
Miyuki-Chan
Red River
InuYasha
Escaflowne
Corrector Yui
XXXHolic
Pretear
Planet Ladder

These all have one thing or another to do with an alternate reality/world something in which case their actions in that world have an impact in the "real" world.

Quote:
It was more of a general rant. You aren't the first person who has had negative feelings about Megumi Tachikawa, but the last time it happend, it was in Animerica, which I didn't subscribe to and couildn't express my opinion as openly.

I was expressing more "negative" feelings about how light everything was. I read what I wrote, and I still can't find where I'm oh so negative about Tachikawa. Again, I thought I put it in a good spot in the column. Tachikawa fans will buy it no matter what I say.

Quote:
I got to volume three of the manga, and it looked like it was still heading toward the "Tohru has the magical power to reform(tm)" scenario. I was hoping it would slow down more and take more time with each character, which would fix my complaint, but it looked like she was using the extra volumes to get more characters and side plots in, and not to develop people more slowly. any thoughts on that...?

Three volumes isn't very many volumes to pass judgement on such a long series. It is a common practice for series to introduce characters and kinda go into lighthearted "filler." Further character development with specific (main) characters come later as well as a more substantial story arc. *(see Kenshin).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
sailor_titan



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 51
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I agree with LGW here. One of the things that Fruits Basket *excelled* at was character development. There were able to introduce a very large cast of characters, and through Tohru, give a solid rundown of their past, their present, and how they change. Few shows with that many characters can get their characters fleshed out so well as Furuba. If there is ONE thing that I love Furuba about, it's the character development. It is solid and spot on, and there's not a single character that I left the series not knowing about.


I did not say that Fruit's Basket didn't have character development, I said that it's character development was unrealistic. I'm sorry, but there were definetly examples in that show where a character reformed entire ways of thinking and behaving in a single episode (I point specifically at the episode with the monkey zodiac. Sadly, I can't remember his name...). Now, if Tohru had spent, say, two to three volumes reforming someone's behavior, I'm okay with that, and that would be realistic character development. And in the case of Kyo and Yuki, it is realistic. But not in the case of most of the rest of the characters. With many of them, it just looked completely contrived.

Quote:

First, I'm going to argue with you over Tachikawa's art style. It's boring, and looks like every other cutesy shoujo style out there. Example: Da Da Da, Kodoncha, and pretty much almost any other style shown in Ribon/Nakayoshi, which, may I point out in your defense of romance, are all manga that target little girls. There's your childlike romance explanation there.


.....are we talking about the same artist here?

Seriously, it depends on how you look at it. IF you're saying that having big eyes and looking kind of cute is making her unoriginal, I guess that makes sense. But let's say I look at the art of Slayers, Tenchi Muyo! and Prince of Tennis...well, those all look pretty darn similar to me. Tachikawa's characters have very unique looking eyes, and they have much more rounded faces than other characters. The way she draws hair is also much different than either the artist of Da Da Da or Kodocha. Kodocha's characters have very differently shaped faces, and their hair is much stringier.

Now, Nao Yawaza has very generic art. I still love "Wedding Peach", and I do like her art, but I don't think it's unique looking like Tachikawa's art is.

Regardless, saying "all Ribon/Nakayoshi art is alike" is pretty much akin to saying "all Shounen Jump art is alike". Sure, maybe, but on what level? And who are we comparing to?


Quote:
X/1999 created by CLAMP that relies quite a bit on the dream world also. Again, another major shoujo title. If you want more, I can list more. Add to the list Shamanic Princess. It may be an anime, but it's still shoujo, and one commonly seen.


I wasn't talking about shoujo anime, for one, I was talking about mahou shoujo anime. And even throwing that aside, Shamanic Princess has nothing to do with dream worlds. Can't speak for X/1999. and continuing on that theme...

Quote:
Fushigi Yugi (not really dream world, but alternate world..which goes for a lot of these)
Alice 19th
Fantasy Land
Please Save My Earth
Miyuki-Chan
Red River
InuYasha
Escaflowne
Corrector Yui
XXXHolic
Pretear
Planet Ladder


All of these have alternate universes, but the ones that I have read (which is most of them) do not have DREAM universes, sans PSME. You can't really fault Dream Saga for having alternate universes without sticking your foot in your mouth, because then you're also faulting InuYasha, Escaflowne and Fushigi Yuugi, which are well-beloved series. I'm not sure that was really your point anyway (lianncoop, anyway) But I thought the idea of dreams was more the point of the originality than the idea of going to an alternate universe.

Even if we throw away the idea of dreams as being unique enough to be considered orginal, I would like to mention that I also find the idea of the dual-identity very original. The idea that people have "other selves" that exist when they sleep at night but who might be very different people with similar traits is not something I've really heard of before. The closest I've seen is "Hime-chan no Ribon", and in that case, they were simply unrelated doubles instead of the same person unaware of a dual existence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group