×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Testing the sub vs dub debate


Goto page 1, 2  Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Not to be a dead horse, but I see many people claim one way or the other what the most anime viewers at large prefer, but never actually tested or really without much concrete evidence. Those claiming that viewers prefer dub would point to lackluster sales of sub-only titles. However, I don't think that's a valid benchmark.

I think a better and more logical comparison that would finally put this debate to rest would be if there were:
- sub-only dvds vs dub-only dvds of the same tiles
- sub-only streams vs dub-only streams of the same titles

for a variety of titles in all, then compare the numbers sold and/or viewed. I specifically mention dub-only because while I myself prefer subs most of the time (although some of the dubs now are pretty good like Black Lagoon), I'd still opt for getting a dvd with both if the price is not much different. However, if I had to decided between the two and can't opt for both, I'd choose sub.

Now I realize that this kind of test will never happen, but until it does I don't think one can claim one way or the other, IMHO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martin_g



Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:17 pm Reply with quote
Personally I enjoy the subs a little more, but if I'm going to buy a DVD it needs to have a dub because the whole point of owning something, for me, is to share it with my friends. Unforturnately, most of my friends aren't real big into anime and they seem to get turned off from subs. It is harder to socialize while watching if your eyes have to stay glued to the screen.

Most newer releases these days have decent enough dubs once you get used to them.

Anyway, my point is that that trying to figure out which is better, Dub or Sub, by sales or any other statistic is kind of pointless. they both have pros and cons and either one may be better depending on the circumstances.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chingaling



Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 12
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:26 pm Reply with quote
I think people have decided to stop trying to claim that one's better for just that reason. Technically no one really has the right to say 'do it my way because it's better.' I'll pretty much always watch it with it's original track except in special cases like the Devil May Cry anime since the game was in english and they're using the same cast.

Quote:
It is harder to socialize while watching if your eyes have to stay glued to the screen.


So true. If I start talking to my friend while we're watching something we'll stop reading the subs and then we're like, "damn, we've gotta go back over that."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JacobC
ANN Contributor


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 3728
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:11 pm Reply with quote
chingaling wrote:

Quote:
It is harder to socialize while watching if your eyes have to stay glued to the screen.


So true. If I start talking to my friend while we're watching something we'll stop reading the subs and then we're like, "damn, we've gotta go back over that."


Double-edged sword. If you have a big room full of people talking loud, subs are actually better because you don't have to hear the voices, over the LOUD ones of your companions. (Leading to the running gag: "Shut up! You're so loud I can't even hear the subtitles!")

If you take your concentration off the show itself, though, dubs are better cause the ten seconds that you miss will probably sink in, osmosis-like, even if you were chatting, or the following lines will fill in the gaps for you. For some reason, this doesn't happen with subs, and you just feel like you missed more than you really did.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website My Anime
Elfen12



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Bay Area
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:17 pm Reply with quote
I find it to be incorrect (and i'm a bit irritated by it) to call it a debate. There isn't an answer for something like this, it's just a prefrence. That's like saying, ... that there is an offical debate for waffles vs. pancakes, and thinking that there is a definite answer. So one may perfer dubs over subs, like me, but another could perfer subs over dubs, and neither is wrong. People may have there reasons for what they choose, but that doens't mean that their right, again, it's just a prefrence, and opinion, not a fact that one is better than the other. (I'm equally positive that someones said this before, but i thought it might need mentioning, so i'm mentioning it)

-Elfen12-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Nepplar



Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:08 pm Reply with quote
i'm more of a sub man myself, but I would say thats because that is what is available to me and all of the newer anime are easily found online subbed, that being said sometimes i am lazy and just dont feel like reading so ill watch a dubbed version and enjoy it equally as much as a subbed version. (exception: Naruto)
That being said I think that what your preference is dub/sub depends upon your level of envolvement with anime, I have found that the more casual anime watcher will tend to like more dubbed versions because they don't go out of their way to watch anime in their free time and if they do watch, it its on cartoon network or some channel where its dubbed. Whereas the anime enthusiast will go out of their way to find newer anime that they enjoy so they tend to like the subbed versions because that's whats out there the majority of the time. Granted theres always exceptions but ultimately i think it depends greatly on how much you enjoy anime. less = dub/more = sub. this is the conclusion that i have come to at least.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:14 pm Reply with quote
Elfen12 wrote:
I find it to be incorrect (and i'm a bit irritated by it) to call it a debate. There isn't an answer for something like this, it's just a prefrence. That's like saying, ... that there is an offical debate for waffles vs. pancakes, and thinking that there is a definite answer. So one may perfer dubs over subs, like me, but another could perfer subs over dubs, and neither is wrong. People may have there reasons for what they choose, but that doens't mean that their right, again, it's just a prefrence, and opinion, not a fact that one is better than the other. (I'm equally positive that someones said this before, but i thought it might need mentioning, so i'm mentioning it)

-Elfen12-


I generally agree that it's just a preference. However, I've seen time and time again, people extrapolate their preference to the general anime viewing audience (such as again in the Naruto Shippuuden Jan 15 thread) and that's what I'm really contesting.

To disclose my own bias: I think that there's enough of a market for sub-only releases. I don't think the mantra that anime won't selll without dub is the case. Perhaps they can use the sub-only releases for initial funding.. maybe after the R1/local licensees get deals with TV/Cable stations, they can use that to fund dub releases.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
supersaiyan4elby



Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Mississippi
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:46 pm Reply with quote
I used to be all about Dub when i first got into anime. DBZ and Ranma 1/2 are what really got me hooked then other obscure titles like Devil Hunter Yohko. Only until a few years later after DBZ stopped airing on cartoon network did i really venture into subs and i haven't looked back since. In fact its kind of painful to go back now and watch any dubs other than the ones i used to see.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LuckySeven



Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Posts: 585
Location: Georgia, USA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:46 am Reply with quote
supersaiyan4elby wrote:
I used to be all about Dub when i first got into anime. DBZ and Ranma 1/2 are what really got me hooked then other obscure titles like Devil Hunter Yohko. Only until a few years later after DBZ stopped airing on cartoon network did i really venture into subs and i haven't looked back since. In fact its kind of painful to go back now and watch any dubs other than the ones i used to see.


I've been watching anime since I was a little kid and not knowing that shows like Star Blazers, Battle of the Planets, Voltron, or Tranzor Z were anime. So for that matter I'm used to dubs and watch anime dubbed more often than not. I was all about the dub myself, but that was because in the VHS era when I started buying anime the English dubs were always cheaper by about five to ten dollars. And that makes a big difference when your spending money is limited. I used to think that the preference for either had something to do with which language you heard it in first. But I can not say that is true either. I have seen a few anime subbed first then later saw dubbed and never thought one was better than the other, just different. Personally I think the sub vs. dub issue is more about the old perception of things being drastically changed for the sake of making a dub more casual viewer or kid friendly. Outside of what 4Kids does I don't think too many anime series get as some would say hacked up when they're dubbed into English. Again, I'm not trying to take a side either way, but English dubbing even in this day and age still has a bad rap that it can't seem to shake. I am not saying that they are all great either, I can point out a few bad dub performances myself if I wanted to. Now on the other side, I can also see why some would prefer to watch in the original language with subtitles. Some things just don't translate well into spoken English dialog so I get that. I've never had an issue with watching anime subbed if that's what someone else I might be watching with preferred. My biggest issue in the sub vs. dub debate was with the fandom itself. It is not difficult to have a preference for something without bashing others for not having the same one as yourself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger My Anime
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6864
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:20 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
I think a better and more logical comparison that would finally put this debate to rest would be if there were:
- sub-only dvds vs dub-only dvds of the same tiles
That's already happened, except it was with VHS, not DVD. The numbers were well in favor of dubs by a wide margin, and even then it didn't put the debate to rest. In fact the whole "sub vs. dub" debate is essentially an outdated relic of the VHS era, because PEOPLE WON'T LET IT DIE.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Sanosuke_Sagara-85



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:03 am Reply with quote
The best way to put a cap on this is simple. Whether its subbed or dubbed, as long as it means something to you, the consumer, thats all that really matters. The only reason it ever got out of proportion back in the VHS days was because of egos (dont take that as a blanket-statement though), some people often feel that if its their way or the highway for everyone around them, then they're superior. Personally, I go both ways with sub/dub, because I'm able to get that much more out of the viewing experience and because it makes me happy. Very Happy I love hearing Lisa Ortiz do the voice of Lina Inverse just as much as hearing Megumi Hayashibara do it and reading subs can be alot of fun, even with dub on I'll turn the subs on too sometimes. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:54 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
configspace wrote:
I think a better and more logical comparison that would finally put this debate to rest would be if there were:
- sub-only dvds vs dub-only dvds of the same tiles
That's already happened, except it was with VHS, not DVD. The numbers were well in favor of dubs by a wide margin, and even then it didn't put the debate to rest. In fact the whole "sub vs. dub" debate is essentially an outdated relic of the VHS era, because PEOPLE WON'T LET IT DIE.


Weren't the VHS subs more expensive? I don't remember what I paid, but I remember paying a lot.. more than dvds.

I still don't think it's conclusive -- would it have been reversed if the dubs were more expensive? Back then, I'm not sure. But now I think the answer is yes. Feel free to lock the thread, but to reiterate why I bring this up is that I read opinions here quite a bit that suggests sub-only releases won't do well because the audience prefers dubs over subs. While that may be true for a not-so-small chunk of the audience, I'm not sure if the majority is like that today (just look at titles currently active in this forum).

I don't see people refusing to watch sub-only streams.. or refusing to buy the early releases of Gurren Lagaan. I'm just voicing my 2 cents that quicker, cheaper sub-only releases can provide an alternative for the industry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Enjeru



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 221
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:07 am Reply with quote
as it has been well stated above, this is not a debate. This is because there is no magical statement that anyone can make that will change another person's mind. There is nothing that I, or anyone else can bring to the table that will allow someone to decide that their preference is incorrect.
I have my preferences, just as everyone does. And from time to time, my preferences change depending on my current mood or what other factors may play into it.
I, however, while never attempt to change anyone's mind; I will do my best to destroy any myths about one side or the other. Sadly, in this argument that has been going on for far to long, many people bring their "so-called facts" to the table and quite frankly they just don't hold any water. So when that situation arises, I do interject my two cents on the subject and do my best to combat such falsehoods.
I just don't understand why some fans of the anime world find the need to say one side is superior and those who admire the other side are "not true fans". I find it to really show the person's personality, and let's just say it is not so good.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
randomfanwoman



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:11 am Reply with quote
Figure I'd just leave my .02 before work. Usually, I prefer subs and watch those first. Now, if the dubs are actually good enough, like Excel Saga or Fullmetal Alchemist, I'll listen to those. If the dubs are as terrible as the Get Backers dub, which is the worst dub I have ever seen, I will be sub over dub.

The two things that make a good dub for me:
1. translation. how close in meaning is of the English to the Japanese dub. I am not looking for creativity in a dub.
2. how close are the english voices to the japanese voices. Granted, some voices are hard to match, Akabane's seyuu comes to mind immediately, but it comes down to if the characters sound like the characters. The Japanese people cast the way they did for a reason. (16 year old characters should not sound 40)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Enjeru



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 221
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:11 am Reply with quote
randomfanwoman wrote:


The two things that make a good dub for me:
1. translation. how close in meaning is of the English to the Japanese dub. I am not looking for creativity in a dub.


here is one of my points, and in no way am I attacking you or your beliefs....it is just that this is a good example.

How do you know (or do others know) how accurate the dub really is? Or for that matter, the subtitles? Unless the person who brings this to the table is a native speaker or is close enough to fluent in Japanese, how would they know? Any non-Japanese anime release has the subtitles re-written by the company (Funi for example). So knowing which is more accurate is rather a mute point. Even the fansubbers themselves could be rather off on their translations.
I personally have been studying Japanese for 3 years and I am currently living in Tokyo as an exchange student. So while I am not anywhere near fluent, I do have a pretty good understanding of the language and I have found faults in a) Licensed Dubs 2)Licensed Subs 3) and fansubbed anime. So saying that one is more accurate than the other IMO is not really a valid point. I know that both fansub groups and US distribution groups have people working for them that are for the most part well educated in the language, but it will never be a perfect translation.
On top of that, in my study of the language, I have long ago learned that English and Japanese do not translate into each other. The grammar, vocab usage, everything is just far too different. In addition, Japanese is also a language where "what is not said" sometimes holds greater meaning than anything that could be verbalized. Also, in Japanese.....how something is said can alter the meaning. So even if the translator got the words correct and such, they could easily have missed the tone in which it was said, thus altering the meaning.
In conclusion, in all the time I have been watching anime, only in a rare occasion have I seen such a blunder where it altered the show. for the most part, the mistakes did little to nothing to change what was actually going on. For the most part, I see it just as nit-picking when people point out little mistakes in the translation. For those looking for the purest form of anime viewing....the only thing I can suggest is to learn the language. Then there will be no need to worry about what is correct and what is not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group